If thin oil is so good...
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Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Your thoughts?
You're an idiot.
+1 LOL
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Your thoughts?
You're an idiot.
+1 LOL
Originally Posted By: Andy636
Hyundai recommends 5W-30 for my diesel engine unless....
Unless if you don`t have DPF version of CRDi engine.....then Hyundai recomends 5w40
And Hyundai recomends same grade (5w40) in their GDi and T-GDi engines too
Hyundai recommends 5W-30 for my diesel engine unless....
Unless if you don`t have DPF version of CRDi engine.....then Hyundai recomends 5w40
And Hyundai recomends same grade (5w40) in their GDi and T-GDi engines too
Originally Posted By: SLATRON
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Your thoughts?
You're an idiot.
+1 LOL
++1
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Your thoughts?
You're an idiot.
+1 LOL
++1
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Not stirring the pot and not some troll, I just can't see the reason behind all the thin oils for nothing other than CAFE/Fuel economy. 5W30 is the absolute thinnest I will run and is in most of my vehicles.
I know diesels are different animals but they work hard, they need excellent protection and they last 2X most gasoline engines. Sure there are other factors here to consider but they don't use thin oil either!!! yes I know some of the newer, light duty stuff specs a 30w but still you don't see no 0W20!!!
become a professional licensed tribologist and tell us more sage opinions.
Not stirring the pot and not some troll, I just can't see the reason behind all the thin oils for nothing other than CAFE/Fuel economy. 5W30 is the absolute thinnest I will run and is in most of my vehicles.
I know diesels are different animals but they work hard, they need excellent protection and they last 2X most gasoline engines. Sure there are other factors here to consider but they don't use thin oil either!!! yes I know some of the newer, light duty stuff specs a 30w but still you don't see no 0W20!!!
become a professional licensed tribologist and tell us more sage opinions.
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
I know a lot of you are thin oil advocates but I just can't make myself use "water" in my engines no matter what the duty... (0W20 or even 5W20)
You've already declared "thin oil" to be "water", and have proclaimed that, no matter the recommendation made by the folks who designed and manufactured the engine, you're going to use what you want to use.
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Your thoughts?
I'm scratching my head trying to discern the point of this thread. It doesn't seem to me that you posted what you did with genuine curiosity. And I'm not sure you're really interested in our thoughts.
If you were (really interested), I'd point out that the lowest mileage of my two V-6 engines is 101k miles, and that they've both been run on mostly 5W-20 conventional oil their whole lives. One of them spent its entire life until now in the desert southwest, and the other one spent about a third of its life there (with the rest of it being in southern North Carolina). I could tell you about how well they run, but I'm not sure you'd believe it.
I'd also say that I'm planning to move up to your area this summer (probably more like Front Royal or Warrenton or somewhere in between), and I'd pull your leg and say that due to the colder climate, I'll switching both of my vehicles to 0W-16 to better cope with the colder temperatures, because I wouldn't dare to crank either of them with a 5W- or 10W-30 oil that's more akin to grease than oil at those temperatures.
But then that'd be silly, wouldn't it?
I know a lot of you are thin oil advocates but I just can't make myself use "water" in my engines no matter what the duty... (0W20 or even 5W20)
You've already declared "thin oil" to be "water", and have proclaimed that, no matter the recommendation made by the folks who designed and manufactured the engine, you're going to use what you want to use.
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Your thoughts?
I'm scratching my head trying to discern the point of this thread. It doesn't seem to me that you posted what you did with genuine curiosity. And I'm not sure you're really interested in our thoughts.
If you were (really interested), I'd point out that the lowest mileage of my two V-6 engines is 101k miles, and that they've both been run on mostly 5W-20 conventional oil their whole lives. One of them spent its entire life until now in the desert southwest, and the other one spent about a third of its life there (with the rest of it being in southern North Carolina). I could tell you about how well they run, but I'm not sure you'd believe it.
I'd also say that I'm planning to move up to your area this summer (probably more like Front Royal or Warrenton or somewhere in between), and I'd pull your leg and say that due to the colder climate, I'll switching both of my vehicles to 0W-16 to better cope with the colder temperatures, because I wouldn't dare to crank either of them with a 5W- or 10W-30 oil that's more akin to grease than oil at those temperatures.
But then that'd be silly, wouldn't it?
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
why do almost ALL diesel manufacturers still recommend the 15W40 in these engines?
They don't. All major diesel engine builders now factory fill with 10W-30.
exactly, 10w_30 for summer months and on up.
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
why do almost ALL diesel manufacturers still recommend the 15W40 in these engines?
They don't. All major diesel engine builders now factory fill with 10W-30.
exactly, 10w_30 for summer months and on up.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
But then that'd be silly, wouldn't it?
You are advocating that thin oil probably because of your V-Tec in Honda....
But then that'd be silly, wouldn't it?
You are advocating that thin oil probably because of your V-Tec in Honda....
After suffering connecting rod bearing failure on my turbo Mazda, I've switched to M1, 15W-50 in all my high boost turbo cars.
My current Honda S2000 turbo (aftermarket kit) is also prone to con rod bearing failure. Guess what oil it gets? Yup! 15W-50.
102HP per 550cc cylinder puts plenty of load on the bearings. Thin oils won't hold up when hot.
My current Honda S2000 turbo (aftermarket kit) is also prone to con rod bearing failure. Guess what oil it gets? Yup! 15W-50.
102HP per 550cc cylinder puts plenty of load on the bearings. Thin oils won't hold up when hot.
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Your thoughts?
You're an idiot.
Yep, that was my first thought, before I even finished reading his first sentence.
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Your thoughts?
You're an idiot.
Yep, that was my first thought, before I even finished reading his first sentence.
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
If thin oils are so good then why do almost ALL diesel manufacturers still recommend the 15W40 in these engines? Diesels work hard and this thicker Vis oil provides the protection necessary for long engine life, right?
Son, you're out of touch with the times:
Thin Oil
Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) have also noticed the
benefits of fuel economy focused products. In fact, in March of
2013, Kenworth announced it will use an SAE 10W-30 as its
standard factory fill for new Class 8 diesel trucks. Many other OEMs
such as Mercedes-Benz, Volvo, Detroit Diesel and Cummins now
also recommend or have allowed lower viscosity oils such as
10W-30 and 5W-30s.
If thin oils are so good then why do almost ALL diesel manufacturers still recommend the 15W40 in these engines? Diesels work hard and this thicker Vis oil provides the protection necessary for long engine life, right?
Son, you're out of touch with the times:
Thin Oil
Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) have also noticed the
benefits of fuel economy focused products. In fact, in March of
2013, Kenworth announced it will use an SAE 10W-30 as its
standard factory fill for new Class 8 diesel trucks. Many other OEMs
such as Mercedes-Benz, Volvo, Detroit Diesel and Cummins now
also recommend or have allowed lower viscosity oils such as
10W-30 and 5W-30s.
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We (here in EU) have similar thing here happening......EU comission wants to lower overall fuel consumption in EU......therefore they are advocating use of thinner oils....
Ex standard was sae40 oil ( 15w40, 10w40, 5w40)
And new standard is now sae30 ( 5w30, other grades are for use in agricultural equipement
)
We are getting some 5w20 and 0w20 [censored] ( ACEA of course)......but that is mainly intended for use in hybrids....
I dont belive that thinner oils will go along with our downsized turbo engines....no way that they will work in long term
Ex standard was sae40 oil ( 15w40, 10w40, 5w40)
And new standard is now sae30 ( 5w30, other grades are for use in agricultural equipement
We are getting some 5w20 and 0w20 [censored] ( ACEA of course)......but that is mainly intended for use in hybrids....
I dont belive that thinner oils will go along with our downsized turbo engines....no way that they will work in long term
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
I know a lot of you are thin oil advocates but I just can't make myself use "water" in my engines no matter what the duty... (0W20 or even 5W20)
If thin oils are so good then why do almost ALL diesel manufacturers still recommend the 15W40 in these engines? Diesels work hard and this thicker Vis oil provides the protection necessary for long engine life, right?
I know diesels and gasoline, apples to oranges but in the crankcase where the oil is, all is the same! Crank, rods and pistons don't care what fuel they burn up top!!
Your thoughts?
Wait until the CK-4/PC-11 diesel oils come out-you'll really love them! In Canada, they've been using 0W30 for years in their diesels.
It works wonders in the winter.
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
I know a lot of you are thin oil advocates but I just can't make myself use "water" in my engines no matter what the duty... (0W20 or even 5W20)
If thin oils are so good then why do almost ALL diesel manufacturers still recommend the 15W40 in these engines? Diesels work hard and this thicker Vis oil provides the protection necessary for long engine life, right?
I know diesels and gasoline, apples to oranges but in the crankcase where the oil is, all is the same! Crank, rods and pistons don't care what fuel they burn up top!!
Your thoughts?
Wait until the CK-4/PC-11 diesel oils come out-you'll really love them! In Canada, they've been using 0W30 for years in their diesels.
It works wonders in the winter.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Not stirring the pot and not some troll, I just can't see the reason behind all the thin oils for nothing other than CAFE/Fuel economy. 5W30 is the absolute thinnest I will run and is in most of my vehicles.
Some companies like Toyota, Honda ... don't sacrifice the hard earn reputations for 0.5 MPG with thinner oil if it does not work well in their engines.
Why Toyota Corolla, Camry and Honda Accord and Civic are the best selling sedan in US for many years ? Are they the best sellers for 0.5 MPG better than competitors ? Or are they the best sellers for reliability ? You know the answer.
Cafe credits are valuable!
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Not stirring the pot and not some troll, I just can't see the reason behind all the thin oils for nothing other than CAFE/Fuel economy. 5W30 is the absolute thinnest I will run and is in most of my vehicles.
Some companies like Toyota, Honda ... don't sacrifice the hard earn reputations for 0.5 MPG with thinner oil if it does not work well in their engines.
Why Toyota Corolla, Camry and Honda Accord and Civic are the best selling sedan in US for many years ? Are they the best sellers for 0.5 MPG better than competitors ? Or are they the best sellers for reliability ? You know the answer.
Cafe credits are valuable!
Love it
A buddy of mine tuned Grand Nationals and he was telling a customer about all the tricks he was going to do with the tune and mentioned Mobil 1 as the oil and the gent said h-e-l-l no.
Wolfs Head was good enough for my fathers cars and its good enough for me! My buddy never heard of WH oil and I had a local garage here that sold it for decades. I picked him up a batch
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Great grandpappy used to run SAE50 in the Model T and would change it when he would have to change the bands in the transmission on the hill between Wells and Northville.
If SAE50 was good enough for great grandpappy, goshdarnit, it's good enough for me!
A buddy of mine tuned Grand Nationals and he was telling a customer about all the tricks he was going to do with the tune and mentioned Mobil 1 as the oil and the gent said h-e-l-l no.
Wolfs Head was good enough for my fathers cars and its good enough for me! My buddy never heard of WH oil and I had a local garage here that sold it for decades. I picked him up a batch
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Great grandpappy used to run SAE50 in the Model T and would change it when he would have to change the bands in the transmission on the hill between Wells and Northville.
If SAE50 was good enough for great grandpappy, goshdarnit, it's good enough for me!
OP is basically comparing apples to stones
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Son, you're out of touch with the times:
Nice link. I'd also direct people to that data sheet of Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5w-30 and its list of builder approvals. Of course, this is a high HTHS 5w-30, not a low HTHS 0w-20, but it's not a 15w-40, either. And there will be further changes.
The technical differences between the lubricant requirements between a diesel and gasoline engine have already been covered.
Son, you're out of touch with the times:
Nice link. I'd also direct people to that data sheet of Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5w-30 and its list of builder approvals. Of course, this is a high HTHS 5w-30, not a low HTHS 0w-20, but it's not a 15w-40, either. And there will be further changes.
The technical differences between the lubricant requirements between a diesel and gasoline engine have already been covered.
I run 5W-40 in my 190D.
Even back in the 80s MB specified 5W-40 for all temps and duties, and 15W-40 from freezing up. Therefore, 5W-40 was the preferred viscosity.
Honestly, diesels last longer because of the need of stronger design. The very high pressure in the combustion chamber forces everything to be stronger.
In my opinion, diesels can get away with a very thick oil because direct injection engines don't rev very high, and they don't see oil starvation like gasoline engines do when cold.
Even back in the 80s MB specified 5W-40 for all temps and duties, and 15W-40 from freezing up. Therefore, 5W-40 was the preferred viscosity.
Honestly, diesels last longer because of the need of stronger design. The very high pressure in the combustion chamber forces everything to be stronger.
In my opinion, diesels can get away with a very thick oil because direct injection engines don't rev very high, and they don't see oil starvation like gasoline engines do when cold.
My takeaway from the weekly to bi-weekly thick vs thin threads here:
1.) xw-20 is water (even though the thinnest of the thin TGMO 0w-20 looks to be about 10x thicker than water at 100C)
2.) Companies like Ford and Honda who first specced this devil fluid are only doing it because they are large corrupt corporations who only want to bow to appease the mighty CAFE standards and do not care to produce vehicles that will outlast the powertrain warranty period.
3.) Any arguments about Ford modulars running 250k+ on 5w-20 are invalid. These engines would have irrefutably lasted longer on 'better' oil.
4.) Run 10w-40 minimum and change it every 3k and your engine will love you.
1.) xw-20 is water (even though the thinnest of the thin TGMO 0w-20 looks to be about 10x thicker than water at 100C)
2.) Companies like Ford and Honda who first specced this devil fluid are only doing it because they are large corrupt corporations who only want to bow to appease the mighty CAFE standards and do not care to produce vehicles that will outlast the powertrain warranty period.
3.) Any arguments about Ford modulars running 250k+ on 5w-20 are invalid. These engines would have irrefutably lasted longer on 'better' oil.
4.) Run 10w-40 minimum and change it every 3k and your engine will love you.
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Simple,
Thin oil is for fuel economy not to increase engine life. It helps the manufacturers increase fuel mileage a few 1/10s MPG per vehicle to increase their overall MPG to the EPA.
With that said, out of 100 to 200,000 miles or so or the average life of a car in the USA the engine most likely will outlast the car on 20 weight or at least the original owner..
30 oil will protect better and might be considered "overkill" for the mileage needed, however many engine makers do think 30 weight is better and why many of the same engines in automobiles overseas (and even Mexico) spec a 30 weight oil.
You can easily use a 5/30 in your engine instead of a 5/20.
Many new diesels spec a 30 as well.
Thin oil is for fuel economy not to increase engine life. It helps the manufacturers increase fuel mileage a few 1/10s MPG per vehicle to increase their overall MPG to the EPA.
With that said, out of 100 to 200,000 miles or so or the average life of a car in the USA the engine most likely will outlast the car on 20 weight or at least the original owner..
30 oil will protect better and might be considered "overkill" for the mileage needed, however many engine makers do think 30 weight is better and why many of the same engines in automobiles overseas (and even Mexico) spec a 30 weight oil.
You can easily use a 5/30 in your engine instead of a 5/20.
Many new diesels spec a 30 as well.
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