If an oil is labeled as 'full synthetic' should it contain paraffin ?

[OVERKILL]

Gentlemen, I readily admit that my knowledge on the topic is somewhat limited with regard to the chemistry however one does not have to be a chemist to know that there probably is no such thing as a true 'full' synthetic motor oil unless one is paying $30 or so usd/qt.
Which one of the big boys successfully defended themselves regarding an industry law suit in the '90's and the points of contention were what again?

There was no lawsuit. It was a BBB dispute between Mobil and Castrol and Castrol won.

And, assuming you are just talking an oil that's PAO-based (I'm sure somebody could sell you some PAO, but it wouldn't make a very good engine oil without all the other things in it) there are plenty of options, heck, I already gave you some earlier in the thread, and no, they aren't $30/quart.

As @Gokhan noted, M1 EP 0w-20 is majority PAO and can be picked up at Walmart, often on sale. I just bought several 5 quart jugs that were on sale for $32 Canadian.

Redline white bottle is a PAO and POE (as I already indicated earlier) and if you want something approved, Ravenol can be purchased from Blauparts, often on sale, they have a ton of PAO-based lubes that are reasonably priced.

 

[Otto Mann]

There was no lawsuit. It was a BBB dispute between Mobil and Castrol and Castrol won.

And, assuming you are just talking an oil that's PAO-based (I'm sure somebody could sell you some PAO, but it wouldn't make a very good engine oil without all the other things in it) there are plenty of options, heck, I already gave you some earlier in the thread, and no, they aren't $30/quart.

As @Gokhan noted, M1 EP 0w-20 is majority PAO and can be picked up at Walmart, often on sale. I just bought several 5 quart jugs that were on sale for $32 Canadian.

Redline white bottle is a PAO and POE (as I already indicated earlier) and if you want something approved, Ravenol can be purchased from Blauparts, often on sale, they have a ton of PAO-based lubes that are reasonably priced.

M1 EP 0W-20 and M1 AFE 0W-16 have virtually no Group III—are made almost entirely of PAO and AN—but are under $5 per quart.

Wiki has it as a court action which Mobil lost and which "loosened" the definition of what a synthetic oil -is- .

The problem is with the word -virtually- which of course fits the topic under discussion perfectly - there are no true full synthetic oils if there were the bottles would proudly proclaim -100% synthetic-which they once did ?

 

[kschachn]

Wiki has it wrong then, as most people do.

What’s kind of funny about that is that Group III basestock synthetics had been sold throughout the rest of the world for quite a long time prior to the NAD decision here in the US. Both Castrol and Mobil knew that if it ever did come to a court decision the change would be made here in the US because of precedent. So in reality the US was late to the Group III party unlike nearly everyone else.

 

[Odd_Ball]

It's the destination that's important, not how you got there. At least when it comes to motor oils.

 

[OVERKILL]

The problem is with the word -virtually- which of course fits the topic under discussion perfectly - there are no true full synthetic oils if there were the bottles would proudly proclaim -100% synthetic-which they once did ?

The oil is 70% PAO, allowing for 20% VII, additives and carrier, that's at most 10% Group III. The German regulation (the "old school" synthetic definition) calls for 75% PAO, POE...etc. That's a whopping 5% difference. So, between the Ravenol 0w-40 that I'm running in my SRT and the Mobil 0w-20 that I'm running in my RAM, there may only be 5% more PAO in the former, that's not significant.

The oil bottles anywhere that isn't Germany can claim 100% synthetic, full synthetic...etc, it doesn't matter. The only place where an oil can't be labelled full synthetic if it isn't predominantly PAO or Group V is Germany, that's it, that's the only place, so that angle is completely out to lunch.

Now, most of this has already been explained several times at this point, so, unless you've got something new, I'm going to step out of this conversation as I feel I've wasted sufficient time at this juncture.

 

[PimTac]

Gentlemen, I readily admit that my knowledge on the topic is somewhat limited with regard to the chemistry however one does not have to be a chemist to know that there probably is no such thing as a true 'full' synthetic motor oil unless one is paying $30 or so usd/qt.
Which one of the big boys successfully defended themselves regarding an industry law suit in the '90's and the points of contention were what again?

I would run a search here on the dozens and perhaps hundreds of threads that go into that history, most of them getting locked. It’s a dead horse that has been beaten many times here.

 

[MolaKule]

The OP's question has been answered numerous times in this thread and a proper search by the OP would have found many discussions, all of which led to the conclusion that there was no binding, legal "court" action between the parties of the NAD action, only a decision from a Business group.

As mentioned earlier, NAD decisions and marketing hype DO NOT define what is a synthesized base oil and what is not.

Technical Data has been submitted as to what constitutes which oils are synthesized base oils, which are not, and the proper definitions of paraffinic and paraffins.

Therefore, there is no reason to continue this thread because it has morphed into an opinion of a business decision rather than a technical discussion.