If 10mm is ok for bears, why not 357 mag?

[Pablo]

Glock 20 purchased today. Short frame was too small. Heading to AK camp I'm June. They will be having a bear firearm defense class which I'll be taking part in. Need to pick up some Buffalo Bore 10mm 200 grain hard cast rounds and a chest rig next.

Awesome and awesome. I'll be up there in May.

I guess I've not heard too many people say or write "Glock 20 purchased today. Short frame was too small."

I'm the idiot who bought a regular 20 (years ago). I could barely/hardly get my mitt around the thing! Now I have a SF and a LW frame 20L

 

[TiGeo]

Awesome and awesome. I'll be up there in May.

I guess I've not heard too many people say or write "Glock 20 purchased today. Short frame was too small."

I'm the idiot who bought a regular 20 (years ago). I could barely/hardly get my mitt around the thing! Now I have a SF and a LW frame 20L

Pinky below the grip was the issue for me.

 

[burbguy82]

Glock 20 purchased today. Short frame was too small. Heading to AK camp I'm June. They will be having a bear firearm defense class which I'll be taking part in. Need to pick up some Buffalo Bore 10mm 200 grain hard cast rounds and a chest rig next.

10mm Auto 200gr. Flat Nose Black Cherry Coated Hard Cast Hunting Ammo

Underwood Ammo offers the most comprehensive and innovative Underwood Ammo™ Supersonic Handgun Ammo for personal defense & hunting. Shop now 10mm Auto Lead ammo with Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast.

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10mm Auto 140gr. Xtreme Penetrator® Solid Monolithic Hunting & Self Defense Ammo

Underwood Ammo offers the most comprehensive and innovative Lehigh Defense™ Supersonic Lead Free Handgun Ammo for personal defense & hunting. Shop now 10mm Auto Copper ammo with Solid Monolithic.

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[Astro14]

Glock 20 purchased today. Short frame was too small. Heading to AK camp I'm June. They will be having a bear firearm defense class which I'll be taking part in. Need to pick up some Buffalo Bore 10mm 200 grain hard cast rounds and a chest rig next.

Coincidentally, I watched this video yesterday (while working on a Glock project, but that’s for another thread).



Fascinating story. Here’s the summary - Alaskan Guide with 40+ years of experience had to put down a 800+ lb Alaskan Brown Bear that was threatening his clients. He happened to have only his 9mm S&W single stack model 39 with him as he was trying out some Buffalo Bore 9mm ammo for Tim Sundles.

He put down the bear. The clients were unharmed. He took several shots with his 9mm, using the Buffalo Bore heavy penetrator bullets, and he placed them well.

He’s been guiding, and hunting bears, for 40 years. He regretted having to shoot this one. Some of his lessons identified, as well as observations, are fascinating.

He used to carry a .357 magnum for defense against bears.

He believes that shot placement is critical.

He believes that most people can’t handle a .44 magnum, or larger caliber, well enough to make it effective against bears.

He thinks a gun that can get back on target, and deliver multiple rounds is more effective than a hand cannon that delivers only one.

He has had clients take Alaskan Brown Bears with rifles as small as .270 Winchester, but with good shot placement and good bullets.

He has hunted Brown Bears up to 1,800# - but used a rifle of medium caliber.

He summarizes by saying that what really matters is this: a gun the shooter can control, good shot placement, appropriate bullets.

 

[TiGeo]

Coincidentally, I watched this video yesterday (while working on a Glock project, but that’s for another thread).



Fascinating story. Here’s the summary - Alaskan Guide with 40+ years of experience had to put down a 800+ lb Alaskan Brown Bear that was threatening his clients. He happened to have only his 9mm S&W single stack model 39 with him as he was trying out some Buffalo Bore 9mm ammo for Tim Sundles.

He put down the bear. The clients were unharmed. He took several shots with his 9mm, using the Buffalo Bore heavy penetrator bullets, and he placed them well.

He’s been guiding, and hunting bears, for 40 years. He regretted having to shoot this one. Some of his lessons identified, as well as observations, are fascinating.

He used to carry a .357 magnum for defense against bears.

He believes that shot placement is critical.

He believes that most people can’t handle a .44 magnum, or larger caliber, well enough to make it effective against bears.

He thinks a gun that can get back on target, and deliver multiple rounds is more effective than a hand cannon that delivers only one.

He has had clients take Alaskan Brown Bears with rifles as small as .270 Winchester, but with good shot placement and good bullets.

He has hunted Brown Bears up to 1,800# - but used a rifle of medium caliber.

He summarizes by saying that what really matters is this: a gun the shooter can control, good shot placement, appropriate bullets.

This 100%. The hand cannon thing is really not of value (to me at least and I've shot some of them) - too big, too unnerving, just not for me. The 10mm even is a fairly heavy handgun but should be fine. I ordered some Buffalo Bore 10mm ammo last night, 200 grain, 1200 fps, hard cast which I will fire some to make sure I am comfortable with how those feel.

 

[TiGeo]

10mm Auto 200gr. Flat Nose Black Cherry Coated Hard Cast Hunting Ammo

Underwood Ammo offers the most comprehensive and innovative Underwood Ammo™ Supersonic Handgun Ammo for personal defense & hunting. Shop now 10mm Auto Lead ammo with Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast.

underwoodammo.com

10mm Auto 140gr. Xtreme Penetrator® Solid Monolithic Hunting & Self Defense Ammo

Underwood Ammo offers the most comprehensive and innovative Lehigh Defense™ Supersonic Lead Free Handgun Ammo for personal defense & hunting. Shop now 10mm Auto Copper ammo with Solid Monolithic.

underwoodammo.com

Picked up some Buffalo Bore 10mm 200grain/1200 fps hard cast, that was what they recommended where I purchased the gun.

 

[Inked]

Found the video enjoyable and informative on a number of points from a guy who’s been there, done that many times over. Laughed when he talked about the bear he sprayed that wouldn’t touch the salmon on the bank even after he had chased it away.

 

[burbguy82]

Picked up some Buffalo Bore 10mm 200grain/1200 fps hard cast, that was what they recommended where I purchased the gun.

Great stuff......some do not know about Underwood. There are few things that I know about, but guns and ammo are one of them. Good luck on bear class.

 

[TiGeo]

Grabbed this chest holster plus a magazine add-on. Also fortunatley all of this gear is a business expense for me

Kenai Chest Holster - Across the Chest, Fast & Efficient Draw | GunfightersINC

Carry your firearm confidently outdoors with the Kenai Chest Holster. Perfect for hiking, camping & hunting. Your ultimate outdoor companion.

gunfightersinc.com

 

[TiGeo]

Great stuff......some do not know about Underwood. There are few things that I know about, but guns and ammo are one of them. Good luck on bear class.

Good recommendation, thank you. I am for sure 100% clueless on all of this. I mean, I've shot guns before and we had a few rifles when I was a kid but that's about it; only handgun use was in AK at this site shooting a variety of things which was mostly larger caliber stuff notably a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan set up for either .45 Colt or .454 Casull and a 1911 w/the 460 Rowland conversion. Fortunately I have good friend that is highly knowledgeable on this matter so he is my go-to here and I will be doing some shooting with him soon with this before I head out. All good on traveling with it/TSA/airline bits...pretty straight forward and have read through the rules, plus my buddy does it regularly so again, my SME here. I have a travel case he lent me and just need some locks.

 

[cookand]

10mm Auto 200gr. Flat Nose Black Cherry Coated Hard Cast Hunting Ammo

Underwood Ammo offers the most comprehensive and innovative Underwood Ammo™ Supersonic Handgun Ammo for personal defense & hunting. Shop now 10mm Auto Lead ammo with Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast.

underwoodammo.com

10mm Auto 140gr. Xtreme Penetrator® Solid Monolithic Hunting & Self Defense Ammo

Underwood Ammo offers the most comprehensive and innovative Lehigh Defense™ Supersonic Lead Free Handgun Ammo for personal defense & hunting. Shop now 10mm Auto Copper ammo with Solid Monolithic.

underwoodammo.com

+1

I remember when BB and double tap were the only true 10mm offerings(same with 357Sig). Was a big fan of DT until they started fluffing their stuff. Switched to UW and still have tons of their stuff in the 50 round boxes (I don’t shoot near as much as I used too)

 

[burbguy82]

+1

I remember when BB and double tap were the only true 10mm offerings(same with 357Sig). Was a big fan of DT until they started fluffing their stuff. Switched to UW and still have tons of their stuff in the 50 round boxes (I don’t shoot near as much as I used too)

They have an 18% off sale going on now. Like time I ordered a case of 45ACP +p, and it is great.

 

[KCJeep]

Underwood is the first place I look for serious use ammo.

 

[cookand]

They have an 18% off sale going on now. Like time I ordered a case of 45ACP +p, and it is great.

I’m glad I loaded up when I did. Ammo prices(like many things) blow my mind.

 

[D1sc]

I can’t handle toting around a bfr or even a snubbie 44 mag when it’s warmer. I think a 357 with the proper ammo will drill the cranium.If not 7 might.The extreme penetrators do penetrate!

 

[burbguy82]

I can’t handle toting around a bfr or even a snubbie 44 mag when it’s warmer. I think a 357 with the proper ammo will drill the cranium.If not 7 might.The extreme penetrators do penetrate!View attachment 217830

those Lehigh bullets are primo. Are they Underwood?

Love the leather holster.

 

[burbguy82]

 

[Astro14]

I can’t handle toting around a bfr or even a snubbie 44 mag when it’s warmer. I think a 357 with the proper ammo will drill the cranium.If not 7 might.The extreme penetrators do penetrate!View attachment 217830

I think a cranial shot is wishful thinking. Small, moving target, under extreme stress, medium range, with a snubbie?

 

[wpod]

What caliber? It depends on the bear.

Repellent or extermination? Sometimes you intend to do the former and you end up being the latter.

Some Alaskan guides carry a lever in .45-70. I suppose that would be my minimum caliber.

Overkill is underestimated.

 

[ripcord]

Picked up some Buffalo Bore 10mm 200grain/1200 fps hard cast, that was what they recommended where I purchased the gun.

You probably already know this, but that BB load approximates the original load for the 10mm as developed by Norma which was a grain 200 truncated cone bullet listed at 1200 fps. I still have part of a box left. It chrono-ed around 1150 from my Delta Elite. Ballistically, they're are on par with heavy bullet .357 loads or light .41 Mag loads.