I Don't Change My Oil

[NMBurb02]

Originally Posted By: jsinton
Originally Posted By: andyd
Originally Posted By: jsinton
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Without TBN and TAN it not interesting. One quart of top off oil in 4k isn't necessarily enough to keep the TBN up or the TAN down. Without knowing those data points you may have no explanation for high wear which are likely.

I also feel that your changing your oil filter too often. Just get a good filter and leave it on for a solid run like an Fram Ultra and keep it for 15,000 miles.

Are you adding the partial quart from the new filter when you change that or is that part of your 1 quart in 4k you add? When you remove the old filter your losing at least 1/4 quart there.


My theory is the oil I have is not inferior in any way. I don't believe I have high wear.

Filtration is the key behind my system. That's what keeps the oil clean, which is what I'm trying to prove. Any filter will lose its ability to trap smaller particles as it gets older. A filter with 100 miles is better than a filter with 1k, a filter with 1k filters better than a filter with 3k, and so on.

I add oil as needed, never getting half way down the marks. I lose 1/2 quart when I change filters. Therefore, I get at least 1 1/2 quarts per 4k miles of fresh oil.


Doesn't the oil filter become more efficient as it traps dirt. The dirt acts to reduce the size of the passages?


I don't think so. My theory is the filter's smaller passages get filled up first, thus the filter loses that ability as time goes on.

Your theory is wrong. The reason your filter needs to be changed periodically is that if it gets too loaded, oil pressure will get too high and the filter will go into bypass, allowing unfiltered oil to circulate through your engine.

 

[jsinton]

I don't buy it. If you've ever had a fish tank, you'd understand the water stays cleaner the more often you change the filter. You're basically saying people should just leave the filter on there until it's clogged, which I feel is counter-intuitive.

 

[901Memphis]

It's true. The filter becomes more efficient as the larger pores get clogged causing the oil to find a smaller pore to go through. The effect is more extreme with air filters but it's the exact opposite of the way your thinking. If the system is relatively clean the filters have extra capacity beyond the manufacturers recommended interval.

I am still interested in your results. Do you have a time line for when you'll have the UOA?

 

[surfstar]

So how about with an air filter? Can't you imagine that the more 'clogged' it becomes, the smaller particles it will be able to trap? Same with oil filters. (see above also!)

If I were you, I would do an 8k OCI with one quart added at 4k.

How much oil is added when you do a filter change? I'd leave the filter on longer, either way. 3k is a waste of filters and taking of landfill space.

 

[jsinton]

Not to be rude, but can you guys provide some data to prove what you are saying? Are you experts or something?

 

[jsinton]

I plan on doing testing at 50K, which should be in a couple months.

 

[jsinton]

Also, I can tell you for certain the oil LOOKS cleaner the more often you change the filter. No question of that.

 

[umungus1122]

http://youtu.be/QVibtTjReu4 Can't wait to see the results!

 

[BHopkins]

Originally Posted By: jsinton
Also, I can tell you for certain the oil LOOKS cleaner the more often you change the filter. No question of that.


I'm surprised that you believe you can tell much about the condition of motor oil by looking at it. There is a video prepared by one of the motor oil producers, where they demonstrate why motor oil condition cannot be determined by visual analysis. They show several samples and explain how appearance can be very deceiving.

I thought that I have also seen some discussion here on the same subject, but can't recall for sure.

I quickly looked on a few of the websites for the different oil companies and couldn't find the video. If I find it, I'll share.

 

[jsinton]

Well, I'm not definitively indicating "better" oil because it looks clean. But it certainly follows that cleaner looking oil contains less suspended particles, which is what I'm aiming for.

 

[901Memphis]

I will see if I can dig up some data tomorrow. I'm at work on my phone and searching is painful. My data did come from experts iirc.

 

[JOD]

I did this on an '87/88 Camry Wagon, but I was changing the filter every 10K or so (and it was a SMALL filter). I don't see much benefit to doing 3K changes on the filter. You're really not saving much time or money going that route.

I was doing 40-50K OCI's, with a quart every 3K or so. This was about 10 years ago. The car is still running! New owner fixed the RMS when he replaced the clutch, did the valve stem seals and the oil pump seal and cam seals. It's now consuming about .5 qt every 10K, and he's doing 10K OCI's. My 40-50K OCI's obviously didn't kill it, and this car is now over 500K miles.

Obviously depends on the engine and the usage pattern, but with the 3S-FE and highway miles, this is totally do-able.

 

[toneydoc]

Not gonna blast you at all. I think this is quite interesting. I knew a lady who never even changed her oil filter. She only added oil and that was like a quart every thousand miles or so. The hood stayed down by wire, trunk would not open, and she said it would be a waste to change the filter. She did not care if it went or stayed on bypass. The engine blew a spark plug out one day and she was too cheap to spend a couple hundred to get it repaired. That car went to the crusher.

Replacing a quart every 4k miles is refreshing the oil and the filter every 3k will catch new particles. I would not do this to my vehicles at the moment but I find it interesting to hear and I will read your results. Some folks on this forum go up to 15k miles on oil and filter. And their oil is ok at that point. I suspect yours will be too. Although I also suspect you have some varnish and /or sludge in some engine compartments. It will be entertaining at the least. Check back here please. Bob

 

[CourierDriver]

There is a test car on the web that ran synthetic oil for 15,000 miles, only change out the filter every 3 thousand I think and added a quart. The oil samples were taken along the way and the oil reports said the oil was good,,,go figure.

 

[oliveoil]

Jstinton, carry on with your good work. You migh show all these no-it-alls who want to argue, various points, that you might be right . Thanks for sharing and really look forward to the 50k UOI.

 

[jsinton]

Originally Posted By: JOD
I did this on an '87/88 Camry Wagon, but I was changing the filter every 10K or so (and it was a SMALL filter). I don't see much benefit to doing 3K changes on the filter. You're really not saving much time or money going that route.

I was doing 40-50K OCI's, with a quart every 3K or so. This was about 10 years ago. The car is still running! New owner fixed the RMS when he replaced the clutch, did the valve stem seals and the oil pump seal and cam seals. It's now consuming about .5 qt every 10K, and he's doing 10K OCI's. My 40-50K OCI's obviously didn't kill it, and this car is now over 500K miles.

Obviously depends on the engine and the usage pattern, but with the 3S-FE and highway miles, this is totally do-able.


I had an '88 Camry Wagon with a four banger myself. The oil light was not working. I got half way to Florida, someplace in SC and it leaked all the oil out. All of the sudden CLANG CLANG CLANG CLANG... I ran another 400 miles to Florida and got me home, but the next day I started it and it seized and cracked the block after a minute or two. My cousin put a JDM in it, and it's still running someplace out in NM today.

 

[FetchFar]

I'm doing something similar. My GM 3.6L V6, DI, high compression at 11.3:1, 2011 Camaro engine, has an Oil Life Monitor (OLM) which was programmed for frequent oil changes by GM. Too frequent I think.

So, I drain about half the oil out, and change the filter, at each OLM notification, about 3000 to 4000 miles or so(in normal service mixed highway/urban driving, over 5 miles each trip).

Oil is a very good Pennzoil Ultra (4718M, HTO-06, etc.) with a low 7% NOACK, and I use the best oil filter I can find with an excellent ISO 4548-12 of better than 99% at less than 20 microns (Fram ToughGuard or Mobil1 Extended Performance filters).

Why only change half the oil out at each OLM time? Reference: http://papers.sae.org/2003-01-3119/
http://papers.sae.org/2007-01-4133/
"In one of our previous studies it was observed that engine oil samples collected from fleet vehicles after 12,000 mile drain interval showed 10-15 % lower friction and more importantly, an order of magnitude lower wear rate than those of fresh oils." ... "As in the previous study, the results showed [in this new field study with taxi fleets] that the aged engine oils provide lower friction and much improved wear protection capability. These improvements were observed as early as the 3000 mile drain interval and continued to the 15000 mile drain interval."

 

[jsinton]

Originally Posted By: toneydoc
Not gonna blast you at all. I think this is quite interesting. I knew a lady who never even changed her oil filter. She only added oil and that was like a quart every thousand miles or so. The hood stayed down by wire, trunk would not open, and she said it would be a waste to change the filter. She did not care if it went or stayed on bypass. The engine blew a spark plug out one day and she was too cheap to spend a couple hundred to get it repaired. That car went to the crusher.

Replacing a quart every 4k miles is refreshing the oil and the filter every 3k will catch new particles. I would not do this to my vehicles at the moment but I find it interesting to hear and I will read your results. Some folks on this forum go up to 15k miles on oil and filter. And their oil is ok at that point. I suspect yours will be too. Although I also suspect you have some varnish and /or sludge in some engine compartments. It will be entertaining at the least. Check back here please. Bob


Interesting.

I can tell you I changed the valve cover gasket last year at 30K. I was expecting some major sludge since she had 150k on her at that time... but there was NO SLUDGE. Some varnish, but no more than most cars I see in the junkyard.

 

[ram_man]

I am missing the point....is there a logical reason to perform this test that I am not understanding? The filter doesnt serve as valuable a purpose as the oil. Also oil is a filter. Why not change it out once in awhile? A filter at 3,000 probably looks very goodd inside still. Imo you would be better off changing oil more often and leaving the filter. Oil is to cheap for me not to do it every 5,000 miles or so. Ive been given [censored] on here before but my opinion is no engine has ever been damaged from changing the oil to soon on the other hand pushing oils limits has proven risky in certain cases, pop the valve cover off and let us see that. Then we can compare your pictures to mine and people with a similar mind set as me and see who's is cleaner.

 

[jsinton]

Well, thanks guys for all the kind words and reasoned opinion. My Hyundai forum guys think I'm bonkers-crazy and ridicule me to no end. So it was refreshing to come here. I think I just go ahead and do my test early since there's enough time on this oil to indicate something, no need to wait the extra 3k.