How bad would you classify this sludge as seen down the oil fill port on my 1999 Toyota Tacoma V6 5VZ-FE?
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How serious is this sludge?
- Thread starter KurtJ
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I am no expert, but it looks fairly bad. How many miles are on it, what was the OCI, and what type of oil & filter is being used?
I can see a cam cap bolt exposed and I believe a cam lobe, so it doesn't look like an extreme case. Non the less, I'd try and clean it and be quite conservative on oil changes and or use a top quality synthetic like Pennzoil Ultra that can actually clean out sludge.
Looks more like staining and varnish on the baffle above the valvetrain - the deeper crevices visible on the top of the head don't look covered with sludge.
Looks more like staining and varnish on the baffle above the valvetrain - the deeper crevices visible on the top of the head don't look covered with sludge.
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Pretty serious. Do you have a coolant leak? The white streaks indicate mositure either from very short trips, where the engine never reaching operating temps to burn it off. Or a coolant leak from a head gasket. I'd have the cooling system pressure tested to R/O a bad head gasket. Have you need to top up the cooling system?
Once you R/O the coolant leak, let us know what oil/filter you are using, OCI, and driving habits. Then we'll have a lot more to go by.
Once you R/O the coolant leak, let us know what oil/filter you are using, OCI, and driving habits. Then we'll have a lot more to go by.
Looking at a very LIMITED view of the engine here I'd agree with Drew on its not that bad.
I'd suggest more frequent oil changes with something like Pennzoil NEW conventional or in that line. Change the filters EVERYTIME.
So, more info on what got you here. What type of use for the engine, OCI history, type of oil/filters used and have you done anything to the PCV system?
Engine running okay? Any issues like that?
Thanks, Bill
I'd suggest more frequent oil changes with something like Pennzoil NEW conventional or in that line. Change the filters EVERYTIME.
So, more info on what got you here. What type of use for the engine, OCI history, type of oil/filters used and have you done anything to the PCV system?
Engine running okay? Any issues like that?
Thanks, Bill
This looks bad. You can only see part of the valvetrain, have to wonder what the rest of the engine looks like. The second picture looks worse (baked sludge). I would approach this problem by running Pennzoil Ultra first (3k miles). Like Bill said, I would replace the PVC if hasn't been replaced (stuck/dirty pvc would lead to sludge/deposits).
I agree with drew and bill, it's not that bad. But for a BITOGer thats pretty bad.
If it were me I would run a HDEO with a conservative OCI.
If it were me I would run a HDEO with a conservative OCI.
You can't really say since the baffle is covering most of the hole but from what can be seen under the baffle it looks like some varnish nothing too serious
I'm surprised no one else commented on the white swirls in the first picture showing mositure or possibly coolant.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm surprised no one else commented on the white swirls in the first picture showing mositure or possibly coolant.
Hard to tell -- they might just be the camera flash reflected in the oil.
I'm surprised no one else commented on the white swirls in the first picture showing mositure or possibly coolant.
Hard to tell -- they might just be the camera flash reflected in the oil.
Originally Posted By: sunfire
What white swirls? Are you talking about sludge1.jpg or sludge2.jpg?
It looks like melted ice cream, white going into brown, etc, flowing down in the first picture (sludge jpg2). The part looks like a cam lobe? Hard to tell, but it doesn't look like lighting effects to me. It is not the oil that is pooling to the extreme right in the picture it is the center upper portion of the picture.
My snowblower dipstick gets the same look if it isn't run long enough to get the oil good and hot.
It is certainly worth another look, maybe from another angle.
I wish I could figure out how to load the picture and circle the area.
What white swirls? Are you talking about sludge1.jpg or sludge2.jpg?
It looks like melted ice cream, white going into brown, etc, flowing down in the first picture (sludge jpg2). The part looks like a cam lobe? Hard to tell, but it doesn't look like lighting effects to me. It is not the oil that is pooling to the extreme right in the picture it is the center upper portion of the picture.
My snowblower dipstick gets the same look if it isn't run long enough to get the oil good and hot.
It is certainly worth another look, maybe from another angle.
I wish I could figure out how to load the picture and circle the area.
Originally Posted By: sunfire
Is it a good idea to take off the oil pan and clean that up before putting in PU or PYB?
I would not. From what we see not that bad.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm surprised no one else commented on the white swirls in the first picture showing mositure or possibly coolant.
That's why we need more info. He could have PCV issues with short trips which will inject water into the system in large amounts with short trip use.
With that said, I doubt he has coolant issues. It does not look that bad IMO.
Bill
Is it a good idea to take off the oil pan and clean that up before putting in PU or PYB?
I would not. From what we see not that bad.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm surprised no one else commented on the white swirls in the first picture showing mositure or possibly coolant.
That's why we need more info. He could have PCV issues with short trips which will inject water into the system in large amounts with short trip use.
With that said, I doubt he has coolant issues. It does not look that bad IMO.
Bill
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
That's why we need more info. He could have PCV issues with short trips which will inject water into the system in large amounts with short trip use.
Bill
Exactly! I asked him about adding coolant to R/O that out. Looks to me like a lot of short trip use, and the engine is not hitting operating temps. JMO
That's why we need more info. He could have PCV issues with short trips which will inject water into the system in large amounts with short trip use.
Bill
Exactly! I asked him about adding coolant to R/O that out. Looks to me like a lot of short trip use, and the engine is not hitting operating temps. JMO
The engine has 170k miles on it... I bought it used in 2002 - I think the mileage at the time was near 80k. I can look that up.
Since I've had it, been mostly a commuter - 10 mile trips. Occasional highway but less of that in recent years as I don't trust it as well as I used to.
About 2 months ago I had an oil leak at the valve cover gasket. I had that replaced, and at the same time had a new timing belt, water pump, spark plugs and wires put in. About that time I discovered BITOG. I had been previously getting oil changes at Jiffy Lube type places and most recently WM. After my recent repairs, I changed the oil myself with M1 HM 5W30 and Wix filter. The engine has never run so smooth and never had so much power. I don't know if it was the timing belt, plugs/wires, or oil or combo, but she's running like a top. Last week I drove it on a 400 mile round trip and she did great.
I haven't had to add coolant.
After reading around here and seeing my sludge, I bought 3 bottles of AutoRX and a couple 5-Qt jugs of PYB to do a wash. But the M1 has only been in a few weeks, so I haven't done that yet.
Wish I saw the condition of the valves when they changed the gasket. I might call and see if they remember.
I have not changed the PCV valve... I want to. I'm worried about getting that thing out cleanly... its probably original and stuck in place well!
Thanks for all the replies. Hope I answered most Q's.
Regards,
Kurt
Since I've had it, been mostly a commuter - 10 mile trips. Occasional highway but less of that in recent years as I don't trust it as well as I used to.
About 2 months ago I had an oil leak at the valve cover gasket. I had that replaced, and at the same time had a new timing belt, water pump, spark plugs and wires put in. About that time I discovered BITOG. I had been previously getting oil changes at Jiffy Lube type places and most recently WM. After my recent repairs, I changed the oil myself with M1 HM 5W30 and Wix filter. The engine has never run so smooth and never had so much power. I don't know if it was the timing belt, plugs/wires, or oil or combo, but she's running like a top. Last week I drove it on a 400 mile round trip and she did great.
I haven't had to add coolant.
After reading around here and seeing my sludge, I bought 3 bottles of AutoRX and a couple 5-Qt jugs of PYB to do a wash. But the M1 has only been in a few weeks, so I haven't done that yet.
Wish I saw the condition of the valves when they changed the gasket. I might call and see if they remember.
I have not changed the PCV valve... I want to. I'm worried about getting that thing out cleanly... its probably original and stuck in place well!
Thanks for all the replies. Hope I answered most Q's.
Regards,
Kurt
That helps! I'd replace the PCV valve and all the plumbing associated with it. Clean up should be easy, and I'd wait till after the PCV items are replaced.
Kurt,
You don't have "sludge" from what we see here. Some varnish and slight deposits on the baffle. Personally I see no NEED for the Auto-RX in a 170k motor. What I'd do is;
1. REPLACE the PCV valve(s) (I think you have only one) and its NOT going to be "stuck".
2. Change the oil with something like Pennzoil NEW conventional 5w-30 with short OCIs. Like 3000 miles or 4 months whichever comes up first. Use a new oil filter each time.
As far as your engine being "smoother than ever before" it was the plugs and wires more than ANY oil.
Once we get it cleaned up a little, lets get a $25 UOA just to VERIFY that there is no coolant in the system (I'm about 99% sure there is not) and continue with 5k or 6 month OCIs.
But get on the PCV system right away!
Thanks for the info. Bill
You don't have "sludge" from what we see here. Some varnish and slight deposits on the baffle. Personally I see no NEED for the Auto-RX in a 170k motor. What I'd do is;
1. REPLACE the PCV valve(s) (I think you have only one) and its NOT going to be "stuck".
2. Change the oil with something like Pennzoil NEW conventional 5w-30 with short OCIs. Like 3000 miles or 4 months whichever comes up first. Use a new oil filter each time.
As far as your engine being "smoother than ever before" it was the plugs and wires more than ANY oil.
Once we get it cleaned up a little, lets get a $25 UOA just to VERIFY that there is no coolant in the system (I'm about 99% sure there is not) and continue with 5k or 6 month OCIs.
But get on the PCV system right away!
Thanks for the info. Bill
Since you have the ARX and PYB, I'd do a clean.
If you want to do it faster, you CAN do a double-bottle 1k run, and then rinse. Check the ARX site for your options.
M1 is a relatively good cleaning oil - leave that in for at least 3k, since you just put it in.
If you want to do it faster, you CAN do a double-bottle 1k run, and then rinse. Check the ARX site for your options.
M1 is a relatively good cleaning oil - leave that in for at least 3k, since you just put it in.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I can see a cam cap bolt exposed and I believe a cam lobe, so it doesn't look like an extreme case. Non the less, I'd try and clean it and be quite conservative on oil changes and or use a top quality synthetic like Pennzoil Ultra that can actually clean out sludge.
Looks more like staining and varnish on the baffle above the valvetrain - the deeper crevices visible on the top of the head don't look covered with sludge.
I agree with this here. It's inconclusive. Looking at the baffle doesn't tell you much at all. What can be seen doesn't actually look too bad--but you can't see much.
To the OP: I'd say a couple of short OCI's would be fine, but if you're really interested you could pull the valve cover and see what's going on. That's probably what I'd do, though I don't think it's necessary based on what you can see.
FWIW, that's about what this car looked like from the fill hole: LINK Then again, this is a different engine and one in which sludge is pretty rare. Yours is I believe a different story.
Any idea on the maintenance history of it?
I can see a cam cap bolt exposed and I believe a cam lobe, so it doesn't look like an extreme case. Non the less, I'd try and clean it and be quite conservative on oil changes and or use a top quality synthetic like Pennzoil Ultra that can actually clean out sludge.
Looks more like staining and varnish on the baffle above the valvetrain - the deeper crevices visible on the top of the head don't look covered with sludge.
I agree with this here. It's inconclusive. Looking at the baffle doesn't tell you much at all. What can be seen doesn't actually look too bad--but you can't see much.
To the OP: I'd say a couple of short OCI's would be fine, but if you're really interested you could pull the valve cover and see what's going on. That's probably what I'd do, though I don't think it's necessary based on what you can see.
FWIW, that's about what this car looked like from the fill hole: LINK Then again, this is a different engine and one in which sludge is pretty rare. Yours is I believe a different story.
Any idea on the maintenance history of it?
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