How Often to Drain and Refill AT's?
- Thread starter Gebo
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: MaximaGuy
Honestly, it isn't that straightforward. The pan has a drain bolt that drains the excess ATF, the level check is a small plastic thingy threaded above the drain bolt. Unnecessary hi-tech gizmo when a dip stick would have done the job.
My new Camry doesn't even have a proper drain bolt. I've watched the youtube video twice on how to remove the front left wheel and access the bolt holes but it's still not clear to me. I'll likely never touch it and let it go and see if it will make it to 300k miles.
Honestly, it isn't that straightforward. The pan has a drain bolt that drains the excess ATF, the level check is a small plastic thingy threaded above the drain bolt. Unnecessary hi-tech gizmo when a dip stick would have done the job.
My new Camry doesn't even have a proper drain bolt. I've watched the youtube video twice on how to remove the front left wheel and access the bolt holes but it's still not clear to me. I'll likely never touch it and let it go and see if it will make it to 300k miles.
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: MaximaGuy
Honestly, it isn't that straightforward. The pan has a drain bolt that drains the excess ATF, the level check is a small plastic thingy threaded above the drain bolt. Unnecessary hi-tech gizmo when a dip stick would have done the job.
My new Camry doesn't even have a proper drain bolt. I've watched the youtube video twice on how to remove the front left wheel and access the bolt holes but it's still not clear to me. I'll likely never touch it and let it go and see if it will make it to 300k miles.
U can just flush it out of the cooler hose. Or just remove a few courts from there oncen in a while and replace it. Of course u can also have a shop flush the majority out with a machine as it replaces it if your not comfortable messing with it.
There are vehicle that have reached the 300k mile range having never had the atf changed but probably several times as many that maybe would have and didn't because the trannies died from lack of maintenance
Originally Posted By: MaximaGuy
Honestly, it isn't that straightforward. The pan has a drain bolt that drains the excess ATF, the level check is a small plastic thingy threaded above the drain bolt. Unnecessary hi-tech gizmo when a dip stick would have done the job.
My new Camry doesn't even have a proper drain bolt. I've watched the youtube video twice on how to remove the front left wheel and access the bolt holes but it's still not clear to me. I'll likely never touch it and let it go and see if it will make it to 300k miles.
U can just flush it out of the cooler hose. Or just remove a few courts from there oncen in a while and replace it. Of course u can also have a shop flush the majority out with a machine as it replaces it if your not comfortable messing with it.
There are vehicle that have reached the 300k mile range having never had the atf changed but probably several times as many that maybe would have and didn't because the trannies died from lack of maintenance
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: MaximaGuy
Honestly, it isn't that straightforward. The pan has a drain bolt that drains the excess ATF, the level check is a small plastic thingy threaded above the drain bolt. Unnecessary hi-tech gizmo when a dip stick would have done the job.
My new Camry doesn't even have a proper drain bolt. I've watched the youtube video twice on how to remove the front left wheel and access the bolt holes but it's still not clear to me. I'll likely never touch it and let it go and see if it will make it to 300k miles.
I thought the fancy bolt thing was for checking fluid level *when not at the magical temperature*. Toyota (Aisin?) wants the fluid checked at a small window of temperature--and for some reason it's not at the typical 180F or so. By using the gizmo you can check fluid level at full temperature instead of the 115-130F IIRC.
My Tundra, last I looked, did not have one of those gizmos to check, at least not yet. So I took my truck for a quick spin around the block to get into the 115-130F level. The trans keeps temperature pretty well, so I was in no rush to level off and then check level.
I'd much prefer a dipstick but at least on my truck it isn't that bad, to check anyhow. Draining quarts out though is a bit harder, I haven't mastered that one yet.
Originally Posted By: MaximaGuy
Honestly, it isn't that straightforward. The pan has a drain bolt that drains the excess ATF, the level check is a small plastic thingy threaded above the drain bolt. Unnecessary hi-tech gizmo when a dip stick would have done the job.
My new Camry doesn't even have a proper drain bolt. I've watched the youtube video twice on how to remove the front left wheel and access the bolt holes but it's still not clear to me. I'll likely never touch it and let it go and see if it will make it to 300k miles.
I thought the fancy bolt thing was for checking fluid level *when not at the magical temperature*. Toyota (Aisin?) wants the fluid checked at a small window of temperature--and for some reason it's not at the typical 180F or so. By using the gizmo you can check fluid level at full temperature instead of the 115-130F IIRC.
My Tundra, last I looked, did not have one of those gizmos to check, at least not yet. So I took my truck for a quick spin around the block to get into the 115-130F level. The trans keeps temperature pretty well, so I was in no rush to level off and then check level.
I'd much prefer a dipstick but at least on my truck it isn't that bad, to check anyhow. Draining quarts out though is a bit harder, I haven't mastered that one yet.
This video should help understand the complexity in getting the level right
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cNcecuGzTDg
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cNcecuGzTDg
I would love to change out the automatic tranny fluid on my 2014 Mustang GT but it has a small dipstick under the car next to the exhaust so it's almost impossible to check plus the car is so low that you have to have it up on ramps or something and it has to be level. Plus it has to be a certain temp to get the level correct.
They make it to where you almost have to take it somewhere and pay the crazy prices. The dealer told me they would have to charge me around $150 just to check the fluid because they have to hook it up to the scanner to make sure the temps are correct.
I really hate [censored] like this.
Wayne
They make it to where you almost have to take it somewhere and pay the crazy prices. The dealer told me they would have to charge me around $150 just to check the fluid because they have to hook it up to the scanner to make sure the temps are correct.
I really hate [censored] like this.
Wayne
As someone said a return line exchange may be the only way.
No need to open the drain bolt, just do a return line exchange. What comes out is measured and put back in the fill plug. No temperature dance nonsense, one could do that with getting the vehicle leveled and not having to get the temperatures right, cold ATF flush.
This is assuming the level is right to begin with, I won't pay $150 for a level check, I can get a complete flush at half the price.
No need to open the drain bolt, just do a return line exchange. What comes out is measured and put back in the fill plug. No temperature dance nonsense, one could do that with getting the vehicle leveled and not having to get the temperatures right, cold ATF flush.
This is assuming the level is right to begin with, I won't pay $150 for a level check, I can get a complete flush at half the price.
Can some ASE experts chime in here, this is no rocket science w/ sealed units?
Originally Posted By: MaximaGuy
Can some ASE experts chime in here, this is no rocket science w/ sealed units?
Why would an ASE person know more? All ASE certification is is passing a multiple choice test and having work experience signed off.
Can some ASE experts chime in here, this is no rocket science w/ sealed units?
Why would an ASE person know more? All ASE certification is is passing a multiple choice test and having work experience signed off.
Originally Posted By: sw99
I do the drain and fills yearly. Fluid is cheap.
This..indeed.
I do the drain and fills yearly. Fluid is cheap.
This..indeed.
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
I pull the drain plug and refill what comes out , same as your talking about. I do it every 15k.
Of course I have external filters in my cooler lines on my vehicals so I won't completley flush my fluids for at least 100k
That's what is going to save you right there. No way for solids to accumulate in the system.
I pull the drain plug and refill what comes out , same as your talking about. I do it every 15k.
Of course I have external filters in my cooler lines on my vehicals so I won't completley flush my fluids for at least 100k
That's what is going to save you right there. No way for solids to accumulate in the system.
Originally Posted By: wtd
I would love to change out the automatic tranny fluid on my 2014 Mustang GT but it has a small dipstick under the car next to the exhaust so it's almost impossible to check plus the car is so low that you have to have it up on ramps or something and it has to be level. Plus it has to be a certain temp to get the level correct.
They make it to where you almost have to take it somewhere and pay the crazy prices. The dealer told me they would have to charge me around $150 just to check the fluid because they have to hook it up to the scanner to make sure the temps are correct.
I really hate [censored] like this.
Wayne
Your trans have a thermostat inside. No way to exchange fluid through the cooler line.
I would love to change out the automatic tranny fluid on my 2014 Mustang GT but it has a small dipstick under the car next to the exhaust so it's almost impossible to check plus the car is so low that you have to have it up on ramps or something and it has to be level. Plus it has to be a certain temp to get the level correct.
They make it to where you almost have to take it somewhere and pay the crazy prices. The dealer told me they would have to charge me around $150 just to check the fluid because they have to hook it up to the scanner to make sure the temps are correct.
I really hate [censored] like this.
Wayne
Your trans have a thermostat inside. No way to exchange fluid through the cooler line.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: wtd
I would love to change out the automatic tranny fluid on my 2014 Mustang GT but it has a small dipstick under the car next to the exhaust so it's almost impossible to check plus the car is so low that you have to have it up on ramps or something and it has to be level. Plus it has to be a certain temp to get the level correct.
They make it to where you almost have to take it somewhere and pay the crazy prices. The dealer told me they would have to charge me around $150 just to check the fluid because they have to hook it up to the scanner to make sure the temps are correct.
I really hate [censored] like this.
Wayne
Your trans have a thermostat inside. No way to exchange fluid through the cooler line.
When I do end up having this done, I will have to question the dealer on what their method is on changing the transmission fluid on this car. I'm pretty sure most of the dealers around here do the fluid exchange route and don't do the recommended pan drop and filter change.
Wayne
Originally Posted By: wtd
I would love to change out the automatic tranny fluid on my 2014 Mustang GT but it has a small dipstick under the car next to the exhaust so it's almost impossible to check plus the car is so low that you have to have it up on ramps or something and it has to be level. Plus it has to be a certain temp to get the level correct.
They make it to where you almost have to take it somewhere and pay the crazy prices. The dealer told me they would have to charge me around $150 just to check the fluid because they have to hook it up to the scanner to make sure the temps are correct.
I really hate [censored] like this.
Wayne
Your trans have a thermostat inside. No way to exchange fluid through the cooler line.
When I do end up having this done, I will have to question the dealer on what their method is on changing the transmission fluid on this car. I'm pretty sure most of the dealers around here do the fluid exchange route and don't do the recommended pan drop and filter change.
Wayne
worry not, Wayne.
My sig car shipped with no dipstick and a bunch of stern warnings about monkeying with it. I also have a thermostat in the system.
Fluid was easily swapped via a standard passive fluid exchange. No pumps, no additives, and I even used Maxlife.
As far as the level, I marked a long white zip tie to 70 MM in 10 mm increments and used an IR gun to confirm that the pan was nice and hot. It is indeed temp sensitive, but it is so much easier than you think...
My sig car shipped with no dipstick and a bunch of stern warnings about monkeying with it. I also have a thermostat in the system.
Fluid was easily swapped via a standard passive fluid exchange. No pumps, no additives, and I even used Maxlife.
As far as the level, I marked a long white zip tie to 70 MM in 10 mm increments and used an IR gun to confirm that the pan was nice and hot. It is indeed temp sensitive, but it is so much easier than you think...
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
worry not, Wayne.
My sig car shipped with no dipstick and a bunch of stern warnings about monkeying with it. I also have a thermostat in the system.
Fluid was easily swapped via a standard passive fluid exchange. No pumps, no additives, and I even used Maxlife.
As far as the level, I marked a long white zip tie to 70 MM in 10 mm increments and used an IR gun to confirm that the pan was nice and hot. It is indeed temp sensitive, but it is so much easier than you think...
It is very easy to do. They made such a big deal out of it. I made a probe out of a meat thermometer to check temps, and bought a dipstick with the 10mm increments to check my transmission that had no dipstick. It works great.
worry not, Wayne.
My sig car shipped with no dipstick and a bunch of stern warnings about monkeying with it. I also have a thermostat in the system.
Fluid was easily swapped via a standard passive fluid exchange. No pumps, no additives, and I even used Maxlife.
As far as the level, I marked a long white zip tie to 70 MM in 10 mm increments and used an IR gun to confirm that the pan was nice and hot. It is indeed temp sensitive, but it is so much easier than you think...
It is very easy to do. They made such a big deal out of it. I made a probe out of a meat thermometer to check temps, and bought a dipstick with the 10mm increments to check my transmission that had no dipstick. It works great.
Originally Posted By: wtd
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: wtd
I would love to change out the automatic tranny fluid on my 2014 Mustang GT but it has a small dipstick under the car next to the exhaust so it's almost impossible to check plus the car is so low that you have to have it up on ramps or something and it has to be level. Plus it has to be a certain temp to get the level correct.
They make it to where you almost have to take it somewhere and pay the crazy prices. The dealer told me they would have to charge me around $150 just to check the fluid because they have to hook it up to the scanner to make sure the temps are correct.
I really hate [censored] like this.
Wayne
Your trans have a thermostat inside. No way to exchange fluid through the cooler line.
When I do end up having this done, I will have to question the dealer on what their method is on changing the transmission fluid on this car. I'm pretty sure most of the dealers around here do the fluid exchange route and don't do the recommended pan drop and filter change.
Wayne
Be very careful with this. The first transmission service on my Navigator never happened.
I was charged for a complete fluid exchange, and all of the fluid. About 3 weeks after the service was performed, I found a TSB from Ford stating that there was literally no way to do an exchange on this transmission because of the thermostat.
I confronted the dealer with this info, and my receipt indicating that they charged me for a full transmission load of Mercon SP. I wanted to know and see how they serviced the transmission. They told me that the mechanic who did my exchange no longer works there, and told me that only he knew what tools and machines would have been used and refunded me my money without any protest.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: wtd
I would love to change out the automatic tranny fluid on my 2014 Mustang GT but it has a small dipstick under the car next to the exhaust so it's almost impossible to check plus the car is so low that you have to have it up on ramps or something and it has to be level. Plus it has to be a certain temp to get the level correct.
They make it to where you almost have to take it somewhere and pay the crazy prices. The dealer told me they would have to charge me around $150 just to check the fluid because they have to hook it up to the scanner to make sure the temps are correct.
I really hate [censored] like this.
Wayne
Your trans have a thermostat inside. No way to exchange fluid through the cooler line.
When I do end up having this done, I will have to question the dealer on what their method is on changing the transmission fluid on this car. I'm pretty sure most of the dealers around here do the fluid exchange route and don't do the recommended pan drop and filter change.
Wayne
Be very careful with this. The first transmission service on my Navigator never happened.
I was charged for a complete fluid exchange, and all of the fluid. About 3 weeks after the service was performed, I found a TSB from Ford stating that there was literally no way to do an exchange on this transmission because of the thermostat.
I confronted the dealer with this info, and my receipt indicating that they charged me for a full transmission load of Mercon SP. I wanted to know and see how they serviced the transmission. They told me that the mechanic who did my exchange no longer works there, and told me that only he knew what tools and machines would have been used and refunded me my money without any protest.
IME the Tstat in a trans never closes the cooling circuit off completely. I admit no experience here with larger Fords, but many Tstat equipped transmissions are easily exchanged...
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
IME the Tstat in a trans never closes the cooling circuit off completely. I admit no experience here with larger Fords, but many Tstat equipped transmissions are easily exchanged...
you are correct in that most never fully close. usually they allow about 10% of the fluid to flow through the coolers to prevent air pockets ect.
however, how do you expect to get a full exchange when you are only replacing 10% of the fluid flow going back into the pan?
the regular cooler line exchange works because all of the fluid coming from the torque converter goes through the coolers before returning to the pan. when 90% of it is bypassed, then the 10% that gets exchanged is 90% polluted when it hits the pan.
you can do it with a hot transmission and hot fluid, however. but you have to get the trans hot and keep it hot during the exchange.
--OR--
take the pan off and rig up a suction tube to replace the filter and suck the fluid up from a bucket and have a big catch basin under the pan. this is about the only "DIY" method I can think of for a trans with a t-stat.
IME the Tstat in a trans never closes the cooling circuit off completely. I admit no experience here with larger Fords, but many Tstat equipped transmissions are easily exchanged...
you are correct in that most never fully close. usually they allow about 10% of the fluid to flow through the coolers to prevent air pockets ect.
however, how do you expect to get a full exchange when you are only replacing 10% of the fluid flow going back into the pan?
the regular cooler line exchange works because all of the fluid coming from the torque converter goes through the coolers before returning to the pan. when 90% of it is bypassed, then the 10% that gets exchanged is 90% polluted when it hits the pan.
you can do it with a hot transmission and hot fluid, however. but you have to get the trans hot and keep it hot during the exchange.
--OR--
take the pan off and rig up a suction tube to replace the filter and suck the fluid up from a bucket and have a big catch basin under the pan. this is about the only "DIY" method I can think of for a trans with a t-stat.
Originally Posted By: meborder
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
IME the Tstat in a trans never closes the cooling circuit off completely. I admit no experience here with larger Fords, but many Tstat equipped transmissions are easily exchanged...
however, how do you expect to get a full exchange when you are only replacing 10% of the fluid flow going back into the pan?
Can't answer that one, can only tell you that both of my personal vehicles have a trans thermostat in them and yet perform fluid exchanges just like any other car.
I suspect if you research you will find great variation in the cooling strategies. That's the only explanation I can think of...
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
IME the Tstat in a trans never closes the cooling circuit off completely. I admit no experience here with larger Fords, but many Tstat equipped transmissions are easily exchanged...
however, how do you expect to get a full exchange when you are only replacing 10% of the fluid flow going back into the pan?
Can't answer that one, can only tell you that both of my personal vehicles have a trans thermostat in them and yet perform fluid exchanges just like any other car.
I suspect if you research you will find great variation in the cooling strategies. That's the only explanation I can think of...
There is a youtube video that shows how to do the traditional pan drop and filter replacement on the 6R80 and how to get the fluid level correct without having the transmission at full operating temps. I think this guy is an ex-Ford tech. This guy basically fills the fluid level up to the lowest cross hatched point on the mini dipstick. He says when it gets up to full operating temps, it will slightly rise until it's in the cross hatched area.
This guy recommends to just do a fluid replacement at 30,000 miles and then do a fluid and filter change at 60,000 miles and than do a fluid and filter change every 60,000 miles after that. He says the solenoids in this transmission are sensitive to contamination. He says to definitely not wait until the 150,000 miles that Ford recommends.
I still have some time to research this before I do mine.
This guy recommends to just do a fluid replacement at 30,000 miles and then do a fluid and filter change at 60,000 miles and than do a fluid and filter change every 60,000 miles after that. He says the solenoids in this transmission are sensitive to contamination. He says to definitely not wait until the 150,000 miles that Ford recommends.
I still have some time to research this before I do mine.
- Status
