Originally Posted By: aa1986
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I don't understand you at all unless you are a Muslim and are just offended at any negative comments about them? YES, I do believe it is up to the Muslims to stop the other Muslims doing this or at least try which I do not see happening. They should want to, if as you say, most of those 1.6 Billion are not terrorists, don't hate the rest of the world, etc... It is their mess to clean up 1st as it reflects very badly on them. These acts are being committed in the name of their religion. It is not the same as Army Vets with PTSD. Good lord.
So, let me get this straight. I am wrong if I expect Muslims to deal with other Muslims committing despicable acts in the name of their religion. That is wrong of me. I am also wrong if I talk about the world that is being targeted by these attacks stopping it because I am blaming/targeting innocent Muslims who had nothing to do with the violence. Seems to me I can't win and you don't think anyone has the right to stop these things from happening. This almost reminds me of some twisted political argument.
You seem to advocate letting it continue because not all Muslims are bad. TO me that is bull. Not all white people were racists and slave owners but a war was fought, in part, to free black people from bondage by whites in this country. White people marched with MLK in the 60's. Good white people spoke up and stood against those of their race who wanted Black people to remain slaves or 2nd class citizens. I don't see many Muslims speaking out against these acts. IF you can't see what I am saying then you don't want to.
Comparing asking Vets with PTSD to stop other Vets with PTSD from committing violent acts, to me wanting Muslims to stop the violence being committed by other Muslims in the name of their religion around the world, is just insane and has no comparable values. However, for the record, there are Vets that try and help other Vets deal with the traumas of war, our government provides resources to help, the private sector helps, and so on. Our country, and those Vets, don't sit by and ignore it or applaud it.
I also want to comment on those who bring up long past history such as the Crusades to somehow justify Muslim acts today. That is also insane. There is no one alive today that took part on either side in the Crusades. Don't use something done centuries ago to justify atrocities being committed today.
Hold on.
I don't think you realize what you're saying comes off as illogical. Perhaps what you mean is different to what you type?
Firstly, you and another poster say that the vast majority of the world's 1.6 billion muslims want to convert or kill everyone else.
So the first problem with you wanting Muslims to stop extremist Muslims is that if you anyhow believe they are not against the extremists, then why would you expect them to be able to stop them?
Secondly, there is a huge problem in simplifying the problem to "Muslims". When there are terrorist attacks in the US, UK and now Australia, committed by disturbed individuals with no meaningful connection to a terrorist organization, you and others jump up and see it as a Muslim problem.
These incidents are no more the responsibility of "Muslims" to stop than anyone else. In Australia for example, the government granted asylum, did not / could not extradite him back to Iran for fraud charges there, released him on bail, did not put him on the watchlist after his conviction for sending letters. What could Muslims have done to stop him? They have no legal authority, no security service, no place to detain him and interrogate him, or do you suggest they do.
Now, where I do agree that Muslims have responsibility is as follows:
1) Within western countries, religious places should not be places for recruitment or any activity that threatens that country or creates conflict in other countries. In those places, the senior muslim leaders should be aware of what is going on and notify the authorities.
Guess what, in the US, not a single incident can be traced back to a mosque. They do keep an eye on what is going on. But watch the Newburgh Sting on HBO and you will see how that is not reciprocated by the FBI.
But other western countries have been too lax about this.
2) In some Muslim countries, notably Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, there is direct responsibility for creating the problem of extremism.
But what influence can the average Muslim in America or Indonesia possibly have on that? And why do you not realize that when you lump all Muslims together for the extremist problem, you are condemning hundreds of millions of innocents? The CIA has been detaining, interrogating and torturing terrorists for over a decade and it turns out that a significant proportion of them were innocent. And they were supposedly acting on and with Intelligence!
Do you not see the bad things that happen when you group people together? Have you not read about the internment of the Japanese during WW2?
What I have said is reasoned, very logical, and well spoken( clear ). It just isn't to you for some reason? As I said before perhaps you are Muslim and will be offended and feel the need to defend your religion no matter what anyone says? That's fine though. You have a right to your opinion, and religion( I am not saying you are a Muslim - just curious as you seem to be extremely defensive on this ), whatever it may be.
I am not going to keep on arguing this though as we are on the line here of breaking site rules with religious/political posts. Also, it is clear we are so diametrically opposed on this that it serves no purpose to keep going back and forth.
The last word on this to you from me will be this. Let me repeat myself. The Muslim community on the whole needs to stand up to these folks and stop them. Silence is acceptance and/or support. While there is "some" speaking out against it there is very little outcry to stop it. If the Muslims won't do something about their own people committing these despicable acts, in the name of their religion, then the rest of the world that is the target of theses attacks will have to. It can't be allowed to continue and if innocents are harmed then so be it. That is why I want Muslims to stop this. I don't want innocent people hurt but I will be darned if it should be allowed to keep happening and the only way we stop it is with violence.
We are nearing the breaking point and extremely harsh reprisals are needed. For example. No more not blowing up Mosques(sp/) where we know terrorists are hiding and operating from because it might hurt innocent people or because of their religious significance. Those innocents KNOW who is there and it is the terrorists using them and the buildings as shields. Drop the bomb, blow the building, kill the bad guys, and let the blame fall on those who deserve it for any other damage/death = the terrorists. IT is time to strike, strike hard, strike often, strike anywhere, and strike without worrying about who/what else is damaged/killed.
Also, I never said it was all Muslims. That is something you have put in my mouth. I said "most". Last I checked the definition of most is not all. I also said there are Muslims who want peace. Please be accurate in what you attribute as my words.
