Honda slipping....

[k24a4]

....or competitors gaining?

I have both the 2011 auto issue of CR and the same issue from 2007. In 2007 Honda had 3 vehicles of 10 in Cr's top picks, the Accord (7th gen), Civic, and Fit. No Acuras on the list. In 2011 just the Fit made the list. The new Elantra and Altima replaced the Civic and Accord, respectively, on the list.

Also, with regard to "Automaker Report Cards", in 2007 Honda had an average test score of 78 and 100% (!!) of the tested Honda vehicles were recommended. Compare this with an average test score of 74 and a 76% recommended rating in 2011.

On Honda forums the overall reception of the current line of vehicles is tepid, at best, and many seem wary of where Honda seems to be trending, which, in a word, is downward.

 

[SLCraig]

Both.
competitors are not only gaining, but Honda also has some flaws in at least some of their newish cars. The civics have never really been the same since the 90's, (although I think 8th gens are better than 7th gens) and same with Accords. Honda's in the 90's were bulletproof and any models from Honda I aspire to own (outside a brand new SI 4 door) were all made in the 90's.

I think Toyota is in the same boat. I think of 90's Corollas and Camry's as some of the most reliable cars still on the road today.

 

[whip]

I think Honda has gone down hill in a lot of ways. I used to like the Accord, Civic, Fit and CR-V. Of those, the Fit is the only car that really appeals to me. If I was buying now, I'd get a Focus or Fusion over both Hondas. The TSX used to be a great car for the money. Now it's just as expensive as the competition, and it's ugly as sin with the new cheese grater nose. The design, fun factor, and quality are all slipping to me.

 

[OriginalRocket]

As a Honda enthusiasts I agree, the 90s where the best times for hondas, and tuner cars in general. This new civic Si with the new 2.4 L engine has a lot to live up to. Still trying to find specs on the new car.

 

[Chris Meutsch]

As a triple-time Honda owner, I'd say the quality hasn't gone down, but the styling is not getting any better. For styling, I'd buy a Fusion vs. an Accord right now. Plus they're about as reliable as each other.

"ugly as sin with the new cheese grater nose"
Excuse me, it's a bucktooth grin, NOT a cheese grater nose. Awful.

 

[whip]

Buck tooth, beak, cheese grater, call it anything you want except good looking! LOL

Speaking of Acura, am I the only ones that sees a smiling face on the back of the new TL?

The previous gen was a really good looking car.

 

[callbay]

Recently bought a new 2011. Looked at Accord, Camry, Sonata, Optima, and I bought a Ford Fusion. Great ride, looks, and the interior was best by far.

 

[dishdude]

I like the new TL, it's the only Honda/Acura product I can say that about. I stopped to look at a CR-V when I was car shopping, and got right back in my car and left. The interior was laughable it was so unappealing and cheap looking.

 

[Indydriver]

I just helped my 23 yo daughter buy a new car and her choice was the 2011 Accord EX-L V6. We looked at Sonata, Altima and CX-7s. If you think this car is ugly, you haven't seen it in White Orchid Pearl, ivory (tan) leather and tint. The white de-emphasizes the chrome while spotlighting the egg crate under the nose. The rear 3/4 view is also very appealing. The engine is strong, the ride is taut, and the interior is great especially the standard sunroof. ALL of her 23 yo friends have had universal praise for her car. If you think Accord has become your father's Buick well, then you simply are not in touch with the young professional community who views a loaded Accord as a status symbol. This is a very smart choice. It will serve her well for the next decade as she marries and starts a family. Oh yeah, she got $5,000 off list and 0.9% financing (essentially free). This was a very smart purchase by a classy young lady. So, don't worry about Honda just because they aren't little hot rods that no longer appeal to your juvenile sensibilities. They are appealing to exactly the demographic they want to. Long live Honda. One more thing: if you ever base an auto purchase on anything CR says, well, let's just say you're on the wrong track. Try C&D who named Accord to the Ten Best for what, the 23rd year?

 

[stodgey]

The Accord while still viable has slipped in quality (not much but it has) and overall desirability.

I think the real downward spiral occured for the Accord when American Honda stopped using the global platform around 1999 and went with a larger bloated version that is ONLY marketed in North America and Australia as far as I know.

Until then I found most Accord models darn nice if not quite as good as say a VW Golf or Jetta.

Then when the larger US platform was offered I DEFINITELY NOTICED the overall attention to detail was slipping as was the general quality (just enough to say CHEAP!) Remember this model was um "tailored" to meet "American" needs (bloated, softer, [censored] interior, ect) I would say that every model on this US only platform since 1999 has generally only lived up to barely recalling the excellent Accords of the previous global versions offered in the USA.

American Honda needs to scrap the US only platform and revert back to the slightly smaller higher quality RoW platform of it wants to maintain its competitiveness with Hyundai and the like !

 

[k24a4]

I really liked the last generation TSX, which was based on the European Accord, I just could not justify the price. I drooled over the last generation TL, but I agree that the current one is, shall we say, beauty challenged?

I'll be holding on to my '04 Accord until Honda gets it together. If I had to buy a car today I'd look at Ford, Hyundai, Mazda as well as Honda, where 7 years ago it was a no brainer, the Accord was head and shoulders above the competition. I still think Honda continues to lead the field with their manual tranny, 4cyl combo. But they seem to be slipping everywhere else.

 

[k24a4]

Originally Posted By: Indydriver
I just helped my 23 yo daughter buy a new car and her choice was the 2011 Accord EX-L V6. We looked at Sonata, Altima and CX-7s. If you think this car is ugly, you haven't seen it in White Orchid Pearl, ivory (tan) leather and tint. The white de-emphasizes the chrome while spotlighting the egg crate under the nose. The rear 3/4 view is also very appealing. The engine is strong, the ride is taut, and the interior is great especially the standard sunroof. ALL of her 23 yo friends have had universal praise for her car. If you think Accord has become your father's Buick well, then you simply are not in touch with the young professional community who views a loaded Accord as a status symbol. This is a very smart choice. It will serve her well for the next decade as she marries and starts a family. Oh yeah, she got $5,000 off list and 0.9% financing (essentially free). This was a very smart purchase by a classy young lady. So, don't worry about Honda just because they aren't little hot rods that no longer appeal to your juvenile sensibilities. They are appealing to exactly the demographic they want to. Long live Honda. One more thing: if you ever base an auto purchase on anything CR says, well, let's just say you're on the wrong track. Try C&D who named Accord to the Ten Best for what, the 23rd year?


No doubt the loaded Accord your daughter got is a great car, especially considering the discount. I hope it serves her a long, long time.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: stodgey
The Accord while still viable has slipped in quality (not much but it has) and overall desirability.

I think the real downward spiral occured for the Accord when American Honda stopped using the global platform around 1999 and went with a larger bloated version that is ONLY marketed in North America and Australia as far as I know.

Until then I found most Accord models darn nice if not quite as good as say a VW Golf or Jetta.

Then when the larger US platform was offered I DEFINITELY NOTICED the overall attention to detail was slipping as was the general quality (just enough to say CHEAP!) Remember this model was um "tailored" to meet "American" needs (bloated, softer, [censored] interior, ect) I would say that every model on this US only platform since 1999 has generally only lived up to barely recalling the excellent Accords of the previous global versions offered in the USA.

American Honda needs to scrap the US only platform and revert back to the slightly smaller higher quality RoW platform of it wants to maintain its competitiveness with Hyundai and the like !


There is a US model Accord, but it could not have begun in 1999, as that was the second year of a generation.
It would have begun in 2003.
I have a '99 Accord, while my mother has an automatic EX of the '03-'07 generation.
They are both firm riding tight handling cars, with seats firm enough to have been stolen from an old Mercedes.
My mother's '03 automatic is noticeably quicker than my '99 stick, and delivers about the same fuel economy in fast highway driving (32-34 mpg typically).
To compare a Jetta or Golf to an Accord is laughable.
The VWs are smaller, slower and still manage to be less economical in actual use.
With the 2.0, either is an underpowered beast, and not all that economical in fuel use either.
VW reliability is a bit of a joke as well.
Now, Hondas have changed over the years.
My favorite Hondas were probably our mid 'eighties Civic wagons.
Well packaged, economical, fast enough, and as durable and reliable as any car available then or now.
A different time, and a different market.
If I had to buy a new car tomorrow, I'd be driving either a 5 spd Accord EX 4 cyl, or the same combo in a Subaru Legacy.
Not really sure which, although either would have its advantages.

 

[Chris Meutsch]

I always dreamed of the 1990-1993 Accords. Never got one. Now it's not practical due to age.
I agree that Hyundai is kicking Honda up and down with fuel economy these days.
I love my 2005 CR-V and it will last me as long as I need it to. My mom has a 2007 and I HATE the interior of that. Feels cheap and spaceship-esque. And it's a loaded model.

 

[onebigunion]

Ever since I started buying vehicles in 1984, I've continually heard the same thing about "Honda slipping". By now, they must be the worst auto-maker on the whole planet.

I'm picking up my third new Honda (all Civics) today.

 

[JHZR2]

Automatic transmissions, poor economy, lousy styling (acura), overpriced secondary market, stuck-up primary market.

 

[yaris0128]

Honda today doesnt have [censored] on Honda in the 80's/90's. Between me and my brother we've had a lot of Honda's.
81 Civic hatch (x2)(still own 1)
89 Civic hatch (project car)
92 Accord LX (totalled)
95 Civic del Sol S (in my sig)
98 Civic LX & EX (drive LX sold EX)
We NEVER had one problem with either of these cars. Amazing fun cars to own and drive. Todays Honda's are sooo boring and run of the mill. They dont get near the mileage as the old models do. I know that they are heavier and bigger but I dont care. Honda needs to bring the Civic back to where it was. I read that the 9th gen Civic is supposed to bring it back to its roots but I doubt that. That would totally go against todays car buyers. Unless we are all wrapped up in old Civic ways. This was used to be the car that everyone could afford to buy, afford to drive, and run for the next 20+ years. I bought my Yaris for $14,7xx fully loaded aside from an auto transmission. I couldnt get a decent Civic with any features for that. But why would I want to? The current Civic doesnt look like a Civic anymore. They need to bring back a hatch...

 

[sciphi]

Hood rusting, very thin paint, thin sheetmetal, interior rattles, poor-quality interior materials, an AT that roasts the OEM fluid in 15k miles, and an engine that could die while puttering down the street. That is our Honda Fit in a nutshell.

My 1999 Hyundai's interior materials were about the same quality as our Honda's. It had the same amount of rattles at 10 years old that ours has at 2 years old. The Honda's panel gaps in the interior are smaller, though.

Not thrilled is an apt description.

 

[addyguy]

When 'history is written' decades and decades from now, and they are trying tio ascertain what the most reliable vehicles were EVER, 1980's Honda's will be high on that list.

Anyone could go on into the night with stories about Accords and Civics that were horribly abused or driven crazy miles, and just kept going and going.

That's a really high expectaion to consistently live up to - I'm not sure some kind of slip could be avoided.....

 

[onebigunion]

I guess my experience just doesn't line up with others'. I never owned a Honda in the 80's. I had a couple of Toyotas of that vintage, which were considered also at the peak of quality and reliability for the price at that time.

But my 05 Civic beats the 84 Tercel I had in fuel economy by a good 10% (both stick shifts) and would be by more if I could buy real gas now, power by a huge margin, reliability and maintenance costs again by a large margin. Safety features don't even compare, but that's to be expected.

My first Honda was a 98 Civic. while I really liked the car, I feel my 05 is a better vehicle.

I wlll agree with the auto trans problems some of the more recent vehicles have had. I think the Acuras are ugly too, but I guess that's subjective. But even the 80's Hondas had some issues. They used to rust badly (at least in PA), and I felt their sheetmetal and paint weren't very good, and, for some time at least in the early CVCC days, they required valve clearances to be kept carefully in check to avoid engine damage.

I'm surprised to hear about such problems with the Fit. A lot of people say its the most closely related in "spirit" (whatever that means) to the 80's and early 90's Hondas.