Honda duel-clutch

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
6,391
Location
Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
I was looking at the Honda web site last night and there is information about an electronically controlled duel-clutch system that while it is actually a gear drive trany, the combination of the duel clutch and electronic control apparently allows the transmission to work like an automatic. There was a mention of a mode where the driver has more control over the gear selection.

There was information about many of these transmissions already in use in Europe (if I remember correctly it said 12,500).

The web site had something about a 700 size 2 cylinder water cooled with the duel clutch, that will be available in the United States later this year, and there was something about it being used on one of the largest bikes.

I can see how a duel clutch combined with a microcomputer in control of the gear and clutch selections can enable the clutch that is not engaged to have the gears it is connected to mechanically selected to be ready for an up-shift or a down-shift, and then the clutches can change which one is engaged, all done by electronics. Having worked on electronic controls of three phase generator synchronizers that take into account the closing time the high power relay that tied the generator to the line took to actually close after the signal to close was given, I can also understand that electronic control of the clutches could (and probably does) take into account the time lag from the signal to engage and disengage so that the no selected or duel selected time interval can be minimized.

I would like to take one of those 700 Hondas with this system for a ride someday. Though they probably ruin it by making the seat too low for a tall person, and setting the bike up for the rider to be bent forward for less wind resistance and better handling.
 
Last edited:
The DCT clutch has been available on the VFR1200 since its intro a few short years ago. IIRC, it adds 22 lb of weight to the bike, along with a not insignficant rise in cost (I hate to think of what it will cost to fix if/when it goes south....). While a remarkable technological effort/achievement, I fail to see why anyone would actually want one..... Ranks right up there with the previous VFR generation's V-TEC system..... complexity for complexity's sake......
 
Originally Posted By: Mik
While a remarkable technological effort/achievement, I fail to see why anyone would actually want one.....

I've been following one CTX forum for a while... a lot of the folks there are prior scooter owners who never learned how to shift for themselves. It's popular with women as well.

And yes, DCT technology is not exactly new by any stretch.
 
I'm tall and have a 34" inseam. I've sat on a NC700X at the dealer. It has a taller seat than most bikes and the ergonomics seemed fine to me.
My 2 cars have a stick and even my wife drives a stick: 07' WRX, 13' GTI, wife's 12' Mazda3. I'm a long time motorcycle rider.
Shifting a bike sucks compared to a car.
The best thing Harley could do is make a good automatic that doesn't screw up the looks.
Pegging a shifter up and down on a bike sucks in the city.
 
I've never owned an automatic car, may never will, I enjoy it so much.

But I do own a dual clutch (DCT) Honda NC700X.

Riding a motorcycle requires a lot of thinking, and moving. When you have the DCT system selecting gears for you, your left side of the body has very little to do!

For commuting, nothing beats this system. You no longer fear traffic. You can concentrate more on your surroundings. Watching cars, floor it if need be, instantly!

For touring, I've enjoyed more of the scenery, mentally, as I no longer have to preselect gears, and shift sequences, for that next turn, or that stop sign in the middle of nowhere.

Just twist the throttle and go. The trans has 2 modes, economy, and sport. Sport holds the revs higher. The system has a computer, sensing brake and throttle positions, so if you are constantly giving it a good amount of throttle, it will shift later, no mater what mode you are in. And vise versa, as you brake, if the throttle plate is closed (no throttle) it will hold revs higher to give you engine braking. Engine braking is much stronger in sport mode. They call it a smart system, this second version works much better than the one from the original VFR.

I have thousands of miles on manual motorcycles, since I got my NC700X DCT ABS, I don't think I'll ever go back to a manual bike. At least for my main motorcycle.

I still want a 1000RR to blast around with, and maybe track. But from a Universal Motorcycle perspective: DCT technology is the future of motorcycling. Expect to see other manufactures offer something similar soon.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: OriginalRocket
DCT technology is the future of motorcycling. Expect to see other manufactures offer something similar soon.


Personally, I enjoy the whole shifting aspect of riding (and have for the past 34 years). I don't want DCT for a number of reasons and would certainly never pay a red cent for it......
 
Last edited:
+1 Mik.

But I'm sure there is a good amount of automatic enthusiasts out there, so I expect these DCT hondas to do well, especially with folks trying to upgrade from a scooter.
 
Aprilia's has been out for a little while too (is essentially a CVT system). Can-Am offers a semi-auto set-up on its Spyders too. It works well for what it is but again, not for me........ I can't see paying more money, putting up with more weight and complexity (think repair bills!!!!)... all for less performance....... While I can see the reason for it (reduce the intimidation factor of having to operate a manual gearbox), one would be better served by taking the time to learn to operate a manual transmission and learn to fully enjoy the whole of the motorcycling experience. If one's abilities are so restrained/limited that operating a gearbox is the deal braker, in my opinion, you should find another hobby. Sharing the roads with millions of distracted cagers is not the place to push your luck and/or abilities...... your very life depends on it.....
 
Last edited:
I commuted in Houston traffic on a bike from1972 until 2012....Never had to 'think' about selecting a gear and never found a flick of my left foot as a chore.

It is a great option for those who require less involvement with the machine.
 
Originally Posted By: Mik
Originally Posted By: OriginalRocket
DCT technology is the future of motorcycling. Expect to see other manufactures offer something similar soon.


Personally, I enjoy the whole shifting aspect of riding (and have for the past 34 years). I don't want DCT for a number of reasons and would certainly never pay a red cent for it......


Ditto, if you want an automatic scooter buy one, I have no use for one. I'll stop riding if all you can buy are scooters or automatic motorcycles.
 
Originally Posted By: ctrcbob
Lots of cars already have the DCT. I don't like them but if you don't mind abrupt shifts, I guess they are ok.


My F-150 has a 6 speed dual clutch automatic. It shifts smoother than anything other than an Allison. I leave the gear display on so I can tell which gear it's in.

An interesting parallel: I used to operate about 110 Class 8 tractor / trailers. All were 7 or 10 speed manual transmissions. One year I bought 10 Allison automatics. I heard the exact same comments about shifting gears that are in this thread. I gave the Allisons to my senior drivers - none of whom were interested in automatics - and told each one "Drive it for two weeks. If you don't like it, I'll get you another manual." Not one driver took me up on my offer. The next year, guys wanted to know if they could get in line for one.
 
If the day ever comes where I don't have to put with a 22 lb weight penalty (and drop in performance which inevirably comes with it, especially since a major part is surely rotating weight), a $1000+ surcharge and the added complexity and astronomical repair costs which surely follow should it ever require shop time, then perhaps I would consider it. Until then, the proven (light, simple, effective) manual works just fine, thank you........
 
I'd shave my legs if I thought it would lower Mr.RC45's burden... so the thought of adding even 1 pound just kills me...
 
I totally agree with you ... for your style of bike and your kind of riding. The CXT would probably bore you to tears with either transmission.

BTW: if you REALLY need to lose a pound, ask yourself "ten fingers. Ten toes. Do I REALLY need that many?"
grin.gif
 
I'd never buy a motorcycle with an automatic either. I swore I'd never buy a pickup truck with an automatic either, but was dumb enough to buy one back in 1997. Never ever again on 2 wheels or 4. I figured it up once what that mistake cost me and the figures are not here, but if memory serves it was about $10,000 cost in wasted fuel/ maintenance vs the same truck in a manual form over 100,000 miles and I was lucky, did my own work with no repairs. Autos stink and always have. My last rant for now, Ford now goes to 6sp auto so 1/2 again the problems vs the 4sp.
I'm waiting for the 21sp to be released, then I'll be in line to buy. :)
Not on my motorcycles ever.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top