Rotella t4 causing clutch to drag?

[jimbocarrey]

So a couple months ago I bought a 1982 Suzuki Gs750t with 18,000 miles. After riding it a bit I decided to change the oil and filter, i used a k&n filter and Rotella t4 15w-40. Right after changing it I let it idle for 5 minutes and topped off the oil level and then rode around a bit, everything seemed to be working fine. This one like 10 days ago.

The yesterday I start it up to go for a ride and now the clutch won't disengage. It just lurches forward and stalls out when you try to shift from neutral to 1st or 2nd. The cable is working and adjusted, and the lever down at the clutch is moving properly. If I turn the motor off and pull in the clutch, I can push the bike forward or backwards in 1st gear but just barely, it takes a lot of effort. So it's dragging bad but not 100%, obviously the plates aren't frozen together.

What did I do wrong here? Everyone says that rotella will work but did it swell up my clutch plates or something?

 

[Paco Pena]

I doubt it is the T4 causing the issue. I've used it for the last 20 years in a variety of bikes without issue.

Paco

 

[RoadDukie]

^^^^^^^ This...

I have also used T4 (and similar HDEO) extensively since the 90's in many, many bikes. Including a very similar bike to yours in a '82 Gs650t with great results.
Perhaps it just needs to be ridden a bit to loosen the clutch up a bit.

BTW: That's a very nice bike from the 80's. Terrific engine!

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Everyone says that rotella will work but did it swell up my clutch plates or something?

Oil is not the problem... All your bike needs is some maintenance...

Manufactures warn owners that our gears can't shift smoothly if our clutch is part
way engaged... check for unwanted clutch drag...


Here are the steps how to check and eliminate unwanted clutch drag...

1 Place your bike on the center stand...

2 Start engine and establish a steady idle at 212ºF (operating temp)...

3 Squeeze in the clutch lever and shift into first gear...

4 Continue holding in the clutch lever and note if the rear wheel coast to stop or not...
if it continues spinning that's unwanted drag... adjust...


To adjust a cable equipped bike turn the small knob clock wise (out)
1/4 turn and test for clutch drag... if your bike is equipped with
hydraulics bleed system for bubbles...


Ultimately you want the rear wheel to coast to a stop when the engine
is idling and first gear selected with the clutch lever is squeezed in...

 

[jimbocarrey]

Oil is not the problem... All your bike needs is some maintenance...

Manufactures warn owners that our gears can't shift smoothly if our clutch is part
way engaged... check for unwanted clutch drag...


Here are the steps how to check and eliminate unwanted clutch drag...

1 Place your bike on the center stand...

2 Start engine and establish a steady idle at 212ºF (operating temp)...

3 Squeeze in the clutch lever and shift into first gear...

4 Continue holding in the clutch lever and note if the rear wheel coast to stop or not...
if it continues spinning that's unwanted drag... adjust...


To adjust a cable equipped bike turn the small knob clock wise (out)
1/4 turn and test for clutch drag... if your bike is equipped with
hydraulics bleed system for bubbles...


Ultimately you want the rear wheel to coast to a stop when the engine
is idling and first gear selected with the clutch lever is squeezed in...

What maintenance? If I do that procedure the tire will be spinning big time. If not related to the oil then why did it work fine before I changed the oil?

 

[jimbocarrey]

^^^^^^^ This...

I have also used T4 (and similar HDEO) extensively since the 90's in many, many bikes. Including a very similar bike to yours in a '82 Gs650t with great results.
Perhaps it just needs to be ridden a bit to loosen the clutch up a bit.

BTW: That's a very nice bike from the 80's. Terrific engine!

Thanks! Wow you had a very similar bike, same year and everything even down to the triumph styling.
Yeah it seems like this oil has an impeccable reputation but now it's got me thinking I should've used dedicated motorcycle oil since this happened immediately after changing it. I guess I could try to get it rolling and start out in first gear and ride it around clutchless shiftingsince it basically has no clutch lol. Never done that on a bike before to be honest only in trucks

 

[CCI]

So a couple months ago I bought a 1982 Suzuki Gs750t with 18,000 miles. After riding it a bit I decided to change the oil and filter, i used a k&n filter and Rotella t4 15w-40. Right after changing it I let it idle for 5 minutes and topped off the oil level and then rode around a bit, everything seemed to be working fine. This one like 10 days ago.

The yesterday I start it up to go for a ride and now the clutch won't disengage. It just lurches forward and stalls out when you try to shift from neutral to 1st or 2nd. The cable is working and adjusted, and the lever down at the clutch is moving properly. If I turn the motor off and pull in the clutch, I can push the bike forward or backwards in 1st gear but just barely, it takes a lot of effort. So it's dragging bad but not 100%, obviously the plates aren't frozen together.

What did I do wrong here? Everyone says that rotella will work but did it swell up my clutch plates or something?

It's unlikely that you did anything wrong with the bike and it's equally unlikely that it is the oil. The only possible flaw I see (humor intended here) is the logic; post hoc ergo propter hoc.

If it's a 1982 with 18,000 miles this means the bike sat for a long time, presumably with oil in it. It's perfectly ordinary for that oil to get a little gummy and the clutch plates to both get a little sticky and glazed an once the bike is being ridden again, and the problem doesn't show up right away, the old oil on the surface of the plates has to get hot a few times.

If you disassemble the clutch, clean everything really well, examine the steel plates for damage, break the glaze on the friction plates, and reassemble with the oil of your choice you may find that the bike works just fine.

To safely de-glaze the clutch plates put a piece of sandpaper on a flat surface ( I use a clipboard and 60 grit aluminum oxide paper) and gently scuff the friction plates just until the color of the surface changes, being careful to hold the plate flat. Don't breathe the dust, do it outside or wear respiratory protection or both.

I've done this repair many times, most recently I just did it with a 1988 barn find that had 17,600 miles on it, exact same problem on a very similar same timeline, the only difference is I used M1 oil.

Good luck, please post results.

 

[jimbocarrey]

It's unlikely that you did anything wrong with the bike and it's equally unlikely that it is the oil. The only possible flaw I see (humor intended here) is the logic; post hoc ergo propter hoc.

If it's a 1982 with 18,000 miles this means the bike sat for a long time, presumably with oil in it. It's perfectly ordinary for that oil to get a little gummy and the clutch plates to both get a little sticky and glazed an once the bike is being ridden again, and the problem doesn't show up right away, the old oil on the surface of the plates has to get hot a few times.

If you disassemble the clutch, clean everything really well, examine the steel plates for damage, break the glaze on the friction plates, and reassemble with the oil of your choice you may find that the bike works just fine.

To safely de-glaze the clutch plates put a piece of sandpaper on a flat surface ( I use a clipboard and 60 grit aluminum oxide paper) and gently scuff the friction plates just until the color of the surface changes, being careful to hold the plate flat. Don't breathe the dust, do it outside or wear respiratory protection or both.

I've done this repair many times, most recently I just did it with a 1988 barn find that had 17,600 miles on it, exact same problem on a very similar same timeline, the only difference is I used M1 oil.

Good luck, please post results.

Makes sense, it just seems suspect that it functioned fine for months and only happened once it got new oil and sat for a week soaking in. And I'm paranoid using diesel oil in a bike. Was hoping I wouldn't have to tear into the clutch

 

[CCI]

HDEO works great in bikes. I have ridden a bike that had over 247K miles on it and now has over 260K miles on it running nothing but Rotella since it was new. But if you have any reservations at all there's no reason to go against your inclinations, there are plenty of other good oils.

Tearing into the clutch is nowhere near as bad as it sounds and it helps get a better feel for what you're riding. Just get a good service manual, if the original factory manual isn't available, the Clymer/Haynes type manuals are usually OK.

This might even work -- https://www.carlsalter.com/download.asp?p=2579

 

[jimbocarrey]

HDEO works great in bikes. I have ridden a bike that had over 247K miles on it and now has over 260K miles on it running nothing but Rotella since it was new. But if you have any reservations at all there's no reason to go against your inclinations, there are plenty of other good oils.

Tearing into the clutch is nowhere near as bad as it sounds and it helps get a better feel for what you're riding. Just get a good service manual, if the original factory manual isn't available, the Clymer/Haynes type manuals are usually OK.

This might even work -- https://www.carlsalter.com/download.asp?p=2579

I have a Clymer manual for this bike, first two things I got a hold of when I bought it were the original owners manual and a clymer manual.
I have to defer to others on this because I've never owned anything with a wet clutch before, never owned a motorcycle before at all so all of my experience with clutches is on cars and trucks with dry clutches. I'm just trying to understand the mechanism at work here as to why this would happen right after an oil change, I suppose it could be a coincidence but seems suspicious to me, but like I said I'm a newbie at this particular machine so my instincts might not mean anything.

 

[jimbocarrey]

HDEO works great in bikes. I have ridden a bike that had over 247K miles on it and now has over 260K miles on it running nothing but Rotella since it was new. But if you have any reservations at all there's no reason to go against your inclinations, there are plenty of other good oils.

Tearing into the clutch is nowhere near as bad as it sounds and it helps get a better feel for what you're riding. Just get a good service manual, if the original factory manual isn't available, the Clymer/Haynes type manuals are usually OK.

This might even work -- https://www.carlsalter.com/download.asp?p=2579

I also realized after I bought this bike that there are many things the previous owner hid or straight up lied about, so it also made me wonder if it's possible that he put something in the oil to make it drivable to sell it, that upon draining it out would go back to dragging. kind of like putting motor honey in a car engine with rod knock. But I don't know enough about bikes to even know if something like that would be possible. The clutch wasn't slipping or anything before I changed the oil.

 

[Jay Freddy]

One of the beautiful things about Rotella T4 is that it's cheap enough that you can dump it out and try a different oil, and you won't be out much money.

I'm with the others, I doubt it's the T4, but go ahead and try a dedicated motorcycle oil.

If a motorcycle oil fixes it, you're done. If not, you'll know that it's a clutch problem, probably just related to age.

If that bike were a woman, she'd be too old for me! Lol

 

[ZeeOSix]

All you can do is adjust the clutch lever so there is minimal free play, which would then give you the most clutch disengagement. If the clutch is still dragging excessively, then something else is going on, especially if nothing else has changed except for the oil used in the sump.

Side note - on some bikes, even with the clutch lever adjusted correctly, they may still spin the rear tire slightly when in gear and the clutch disengaged fully because there is always some viscous coupling between the clutch plates. I tall depends on the clutch design, and how far the plates separated when the clutch is fully disengaged. But the bottom line is that the clutch drag should not be so excessive that the bike tries to move by itself when the bike is on the ground and the clutch is fully disengaged and in first gear.

 

[Propflux01]

I don't see a clutch drag that much from any kind of oil. I used Rotella 15w-40 exclusively in my (used to have) 1983 GS1100GK. Never an issue, especially like that. You've got something else going there.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

If not related to the oil then why did it work fine before I changed the oil?

Start by going online and ask other Gs750 owners if their Shell oil is causing clutch drag...

1)On a used bike with unknown history you might have just replaced the Gs750 used Shell oil with virgin Shell...

2)Drains are not 100%... a percent of the used oil contaminates the virgin oil...
Test results showed that the cold engine drained out more oil than the
hot or warm engine did. The cold engine left behind 0.3% of the engine
oil, while the hot engine left behind 4.5% of the engine oil. The warm
engine left behind the most oil at 6.8%.

3)Inspect the clutch plates to make sure it is OEM and not aftermarket like Barnett...

 

[ZeeOSix]

2)Drains are not 100%... a percent of the used oil contaminates the virgin oil...
Test results showed that the cold engine drained out more oil than the
hot or warm engine did. The cold engine left behind 0.3% of the engine
oil, while the hot engine left behind 4.5% of the engine oil. The warm
engine left behind the most oil at 6.8%.

It all depends on how long the oil is allowed to drain. Given enough time, the amount drained out should basically be the same ... ie, when the oil totally stops dripping, it's done. But obviously it will take longer for that to happen when cold vs when hot.

 

[jimbocarrey]

All you can do is adjust the clutch lever so there is minimal free play, which would then give you the most clutch disengagement. If the clutch is still dragging excessively, then something else is going on, especially if nothing else has changed except for the oil used in the sump.

Side note - on some bikes, even with the clutch lever adjusted correctly, they may still spin the rear tire slightly when in gear and the clutch disengaged fully because there is always some viscous coupling between the clutch plates. I tall depends on the clutch design, and how far the plates separated when the clutch is fully disengaged. But the bottom line is that the clutch drag should not be so excessive that the bike tries to move by itself when the bike is on the ground and the clutch is fully disengaged and in first gear.

Yes I tightened it all the way, doesn't make any difference. It's definitely well beyond just spinning the rear wheel a bit from the viscous coupling like you said, it's lurching forward and stalling out the engine. And I can barely move the bike with the engine off in 1st with the clutch pulled in. I can do it but just barely, but of course it won't move at all when I let the clutch out, so it is disengaging somewhat when I pull it in

 

[jimbocarrey]

One of the beautiful things about Rotella T4 is that it's cheap enough that you can dump it out and try a different oil, and you won't be out much money.

I'm with the others, I doubt it's the T4, but go ahead and try a dedicated motorcycle oil.

If a motorcycle oil fixes it, you're done. If not, you'll know that it's a clutch problem, probably just related to age.

If that bike were a woman, she'd be too old for me! Lol

I think that's what I'll do. And don't discount a 41 year old woman, she might just know some things a 20 year old doesn't

 

[jimbocarrey]

I don't see a clutch drag that much from any kind of oil. I used Rotella 15w-40 exclusively in my (used to have) 1983 GS1100GK. Never an issue, especially like that. You've got something else going there.

Do you use t4 or t6? Not sure why it would matter just curious

 

[vwmaniaman]

My old Honda Dream 305's did that when they had more than 300 miles on the oil change. On them I had better luck with Havoline 10-40.