Yeah, check this one out.
http://www.videobash.com/video_show/police-officer-tears-up-the-course-at-the-motorcycle-rodeo-34571
http://www.videobash.com/video_show/police-officer-tears-up-the-course-at-the-motorcycle-rodeo-34571
HD introduces 2 new bikes
- Thread starter JetStar
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
My opinion may be different from most, but I have not seen a single Harley in the last 10 years that excites me.
I must add that I am a Harley rider of over 25 years. I currently have a 2002 FXDLi Softail Duece. I still have it because I don't see anything that they have made that makes me want to replace it. In my opinion, 95% of their new bikes are "retro based". The only bikes they seem to have left alone and I would consider is the full dressers. This is only my opinion, but they messed up the Dyna Wide Glide, way too many Sportster models - most of which are some sort of retro style. Don't get me wrong, they shuold offer retro styling to cater to that crowd - but just step in a HD dealership and darn near everything is ugly old school retro. Harley needs to MOVE FORWARD on styling with new models while keeping the older established models in tact. They don't even offer a decent regular Softail anymore - they are all roadking/heritage looking bikes.
I will keep my 02 until I am ready for a Dresser. They can keep these old looking carnival ride metal flake painted and pinstriped old school bikes...Willie G is showing his age and time to replace him.
I have often wondered the same myself. I get that the mainstay of HD's customer base likes the retro style bikes, but there are also many who would like to see more newer designs offered, perhaps something more like the V-Rod. Harley has proven they can produce more modern designs (i.e. the V-Rod), even if it means enlisting the help of other engineers (i.e. Porsche). The V-Rod is the most technically advanced motorcycle HD has ever built...it's leaps and bounds ahead of any of their air cooled designs, but the problem with the V-Rod is it's so small. I rode one this past summer and it felt more like I was cramped up on top of a crotch rocket to me than a cruiser. Harley needs to come out with some new, large cubic inch models with the V-Rod's design philosophy, or something similar...could you imagine how much fun a 100-110 C.I. V-rod would be to ride?
My opinion may be different from most, but I have not seen a single Harley in the last 10 years that excites me.
I must add that I am a Harley rider of over 25 years. I currently have a 2002 FXDLi Softail Duece. I still have it because I don't see anything that they have made that makes me want to replace it. In my opinion, 95% of their new bikes are "retro based". The only bikes they seem to have left alone and I would consider is the full dressers. This is only my opinion, but they messed up the Dyna Wide Glide, way too many Sportster models - most of which are some sort of retro style. Don't get me wrong, they shuold offer retro styling to cater to that crowd - but just step in a HD dealership and darn near everything is ugly old school retro. Harley needs to MOVE FORWARD on styling with new models while keeping the older established models in tact. They don't even offer a decent regular Softail anymore - they are all roadking/heritage looking bikes.
I will keep my 02 until I am ready for a Dresser. They can keep these old looking carnival ride metal flake painted and pinstriped old school bikes...Willie G is showing his age and time to replace him.
I have often wondered the same myself. I get that the mainstay of HD's customer base likes the retro style bikes, but there are also many who would like to see more newer designs offered, perhaps something more like the V-Rod. Harley has proven they can produce more modern designs (i.e. the V-Rod), even if it means enlisting the help of other engineers (i.e. Porsche). The V-Rod is the most technically advanced motorcycle HD has ever built...it's leaps and bounds ahead of any of their air cooled designs, but the problem with the V-Rod is it's so small. I rode one this past summer and it felt more like I was cramped up on top of a crotch rocket to me than a cruiser. Harley needs to come out with some new, large cubic inch models with the V-Rod's design philosophy, or something similar...could you imagine how much fun a 100-110 C.I. V-rod would be to ride?
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: ddtmoto
I am seeing the remake of the Buel blast here. Under powered, no cool factor, entry level brakes, cheap suspension, made in a third world country. Hyosung with a HD name plate, yeeeehaaaa. HD people will not accept them. The only thing HD can make and sell is overpriced fifty year old technology in the form of a fashion/status statement....just sayin
As much fun as I make of HD for producing these antiquated designs, from a business standpoint it makes perfect sense to continue doing so. Why should they go through all the R&D headaches of trying to design more technically advanced models when they can just keep building the same ol same ol and do nothing else except change the paint color and raise the price? I think what's even more amazing is that people keep buying them...
I am seeing the remake of the Buel blast here. Under powered, no cool factor, entry level brakes, cheap suspension, made in a third world country. Hyosung with a HD name plate, yeeeehaaaa. HD people will not accept them. The only thing HD can make and sell is overpriced fifty year old technology in the form of a fashion/status statement....just sayin
As much fun as I make of HD for producing these antiquated designs, from a business standpoint it makes perfect sense to continue doing so. Why should they go through all the R&D headaches of trying to design more technically advanced models when they can just keep building the same ol same ol and do nothing else except change the paint color and raise the price? I think what's even more amazing is that people keep buying them...
While there are valid arguments about Harley R&D being a bit lackluster in performance and modernity compared to their competitors, one must really admire their marketing department. If you can build a machine that is relatively dependable and solid, albeit a bit underwhelming in performance and be able to play up the "American Brand" aspect, people in this country will buy it, even if the "made in the usa" claim is a bit dubious at times.
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
While there are valid arguments about Harley R&D being a bit lackluster in performance and modernity compared to their competitors, one must really admire their marketing department. If you can build a machine that is relatively dependable and solid, albeit a bit underwhelming in performance and be able to play up the "American Brand" aspect, people in this country will buy it, even if the "made in the usa" claim is a bit dubious at times.
Lol! Sounds like you're a part of HD's marketing department! "A bit lackluster"..."underwhelming in performance and modernity"..."made in USA is a bit dubious"...are all slight of hand understatements...
While there are valid arguments about Harley R&D being a bit lackluster in performance and modernity compared to their competitors, one must really admire their marketing department. If you can build a machine that is relatively dependable and solid, albeit a bit underwhelming in performance and be able to play up the "American Brand" aspect, people in this country will buy it, even if the "made in the usa" claim is a bit dubious at times.
Lol! Sounds like you're a part of HD's marketing department! "A bit lackluster"..."underwhelming in performance and modernity"..."made in USA is a bit dubious"...are all slight of hand understatements...
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: grampi
Lol! Sounds like you're a part of HD's marketing department! "A bit lackluster"..."underwhelming in performance and modernity"..."made in USA is a bit dubious"...are all slight of hand understatements...
understatements in your opinion, maybe. However, it works, and HD is not the only brand that uses this analogy to sell it's products.
As for the newer bikes, I think its a good deal for them. I also believe it's HD's way to cater to the younger crowd, while the older guys wither away. I think they took their V-Rods' buying age and went from there. I hope it works out for them.
Lol! Sounds like you're a part of HD's marketing department! "A bit lackluster"..."underwhelming in performance and modernity"..."made in USA is a bit dubious"...are all slight of hand understatements...
understatements in your opinion, maybe. However, it works, and HD is not the only brand that uses this analogy to sell it's products.
As for the newer bikes, I think its a good deal for them. I also believe it's HD's way to cater to the younger crowd, while the older guys wither away. I think they took their V-Rods' buying age and went from there. I hope it works out for them.
I just see how proper branding can really make mediocrity sell if you can make what is somewhat dated and unrefined as "Classic" and "has character"
Harley knows how to craft an image and a story they sell for quite a tidy sum, I will give them that. My dad has one, but after riding his FXDL and a few sportsters...I will keep the Triumph I have.
Harley knows how to craft an image and a story they sell for quite a tidy sum, I will give them that. My dad has one, but after riding his FXDL and a few sportsters...I will keep the Triumph I have.
I'm on the fence about the proposed models...
1) the more progressive styling is great;
2) the rumors of being Made In India worries me...I previously owned a scooter made by LML in India and it was plagued with subsequent issues needing repair after repair & there is a store near me that sells the Royal Enfield motorcycles (also made in India) and virtually every one they have sold thusfar has had warranty claims against them
3) if I ever get $9500 free & clear I will buy a Sportster 883 Iron...but since I just financed @ $4K for a lightly used 2006 Honda Shadow Aero 750 that ain't gonna happen anytime soon
and to the person with the quip about the Buell Blast...my first ride was a low mileage used 2008 Buell Blast and it is very likely that I would still have it if I didn't have a continuous issue of idle speed with the 'autoenrichment circuit' (aka: autochoke); it was light enough for me to manhandle in my backyard and offered enough performance to keep me content; thank you very much
1) the more progressive styling is great;
2) the rumors of being Made In India worries me...I previously owned a scooter made by LML in India and it was plagued with subsequent issues needing repair after repair & there is a store near me that sells the Royal Enfield motorcycles (also made in India) and virtually every one they have sold thusfar has had warranty claims against them
3) if I ever get $9500 free & clear I will buy a Sportster 883 Iron...but since I just financed @ $4K for a lightly used 2006 Honda Shadow Aero 750 that ain't gonna happen anytime soon
and to the person with the quip about the Buell Blast...my first ride was a low mileage used 2008 Buell Blast and it is very likely that I would still have it if I didn't have a continuous issue of idle speed with the 'autoenrichment circuit' (aka: autochoke); it was light enough for me to manhandle in my backyard and offered enough performance to keep me content; thank you very much
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Propflux01
Originally Posted By: grampi
Lol! Sounds like you're a part of HD's marketing department! "A bit lackluster"..."underwhelming in performance and modernity"..."made in USA is a bit dubious"...are all slight of hand understatements...
understatements in your opinion, maybe. However, it works, and HD is not the only brand that uses this analogy to sell it's products.
As for the newer bikes, I think its a good deal for them. I also believe it's HD's way to cater to the younger crowd, while the older guys wither away. I think they took their V-Rods' buying age and went from there. I hope it works out for them.
So you admit HD sells because of their gimmicky marketing, and not because they're selling superior products?
Originally Posted By: grampi
Lol! Sounds like you're a part of HD's marketing department! "A bit lackluster"..."underwhelming in performance and modernity"..."made in USA is a bit dubious"...are all slight of hand understatements...
understatements in your opinion, maybe. However, it works, and HD is not the only brand that uses this analogy to sell it's products.
As for the newer bikes, I think its a good deal for them. I also believe it's HD's way to cater to the younger crowd, while the older guys wither away. I think they took their V-Rods' buying age and went from there. I hope it works out for them.
So you admit HD sells because of their gimmicky marketing, and not because they're selling superior products?
No, HD sells because it is a product that people feel is good enough quality that they rate it superior over other makes. HD's advertising leaves much to be desired, to me.
You always bash any thread with HD in it, I am willing to bet you haven't ridden one either lately, or since the pan head was introduced. Advertisement or not, If it were so lackluster, and underwhelming, as you so believe, no amount of advertising would convince the public to continue to buy the product. What was intended to be conveyed was the use of "Made in USA", which is glamorized in everything from autos to tools.
You always bash any thread with HD in it, I am willing to bet you haven't ridden one either lately, or since the pan head was introduced. Advertisement or not, If it were so lackluster, and underwhelming, as you so believe, no amount of advertising would convince the public to continue to buy the product. What was intended to be conveyed was the use of "Made in USA", which is glamorized in everything from autos to tools.
Originally Posted By: Propflux01
No, HD sells because it is a product that people feel is good enough quality that they rate it superior over other makes. HD's advertising leaves much to be desired, to me.
You always bash any thread with HD in it, I am willing to bet you haven't ridden one either lately, or since the pan head was introduced. Advertisement or not, If it were so lackluster, and underwhelming, as you so believe, no amount of advertising would convince the public to continue to buy the product. What was intended to be conveyed was the use of "Made in USA", which is glamorized in everything from autos to tools.
Wrong. HD sells because people are brainwashed by the iconic name...it's an American company so they think they're getting an American made product (which they're not), and they want to be part of the look-at-me-I-make-so-much-money-I-can-afford-to-blow-$30K+-on-a-motorcycle crowd.
You'd also lose your bet. A friend of mine on MI bought a new Road Glide in '09 which he let me ride last summer. Underwhelming is an understatement. I thought his windshield was going to snap off it was shaking so much at idle. The thing handles like a beet truck, and I think my Corolla would give it a good run in the acceleration department...and this thing has aftermarket pipes, intake, and fuel manger. People who think Harleys are superior simply have not compared them to anything else...
No, HD sells because it is a product that people feel is good enough quality that they rate it superior over other makes. HD's advertising leaves much to be desired, to me.
You always bash any thread with HD in it, I am willing to bet you haven't ridden one either lately, or since the pan head was introduced. Advertisement or not, If it were so lackluster, and underwhelming, as you so believe, no amount of advertising would convince the public to continue to buy the product. What was intended to be conveyed was the use of "Made in USA", which is glamorized in everything from autos to tools.
Wrong. HD sells because people are brainwashed by the iconic name...it's an American company so they think they're getting an American made product (which they're not), and they want to be part of the look-at-me-I-make-so-much-money-I-can-afford-to-blow-$30K+-on-a-motorcycle crowd.
You'd also lose your bet. A friend of mine on MI bought a new Road Glide in '09 which he let me ride last summer. Underwhelming is an understatement. I thought his windshield was going to snap off it was shaking so much at idle. The thing handles like a beet truck, and I think my Corolla would give it a good run in the acceleration department...and this thing has aftermarket pipes, intake, and fuel manger. People who think Harleys are superior simply have not compared them to anything else...
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Propflux01
No, HD sells because it is a product that people feel is good enough quality that they rate it superior over other makes. HD's advertising leaves much to be desired, to me.
You always bash any thread with HD in it, I am willing to bet you haven't ridden one either lately, or since the pan head was introduced. Advertisement or not, If it were so lackluster, and underwhelming, as you so believe, no amount of advertising would convince the public to continue to buy the product. What was intended to be conveyed was the use of "Made in USA", which is glamorized in everything from autos to tools.
Wrong. HD sells because people are brainwashed by the iconic name...it's an American company so they think they're getting an American made product (which they're not), and they want to be part of the look-at-me-I-make-so-much-money-I-can-afford-to-blow-$30K+-on-a-motorcycle crowd.
You'd also lose your bet. A friend of mine on MI bought a new Road Glide in '09 which he let me ride last summer. Underwhelming is an understatement. I thought his windshield was going to snap off it was shaking so much at idle. The thing handles like a beet truck, and I think my Corolla would give it a good run in the acceleration department...and this thing has aftermarket pipes, intake, and fuel manger. People who think Harleys are superior simply have not compared them to anything else...
So you don't like Harley Davidsons, I get that.
Can't you find it in your heart to let those who like them, for whatever reason, enjoy them?
Originally Posted By: Propflux01
No, HD sells because it is a product that people feel is good enough quality that they rate it superior over other makes. HD's advertising leaves much to be desired, to me.
You always bash any thread with HD in it, I am willing to bet you haven't ridden one either lately, or since the pan head was introduced. Advertisement or not, If it were so lackluster, and underwhelming, as you so believe, no amount of advertising would convince the public to continue to buy the product. What was intended to be conveyed was the use of "Made in USA", which is glamorized in everything from autos to tools.
Wrong. HD sells because people are brainwashed by the iconic name...it's an American company so they think they're getting an American made product (which they're not), and they want to be part of the look-at-me-I-make-so-much-money-I-can-afford-to-blow-$30K+-on-a-motorcycle crowd.
You'd also lose your bet. A friend of mine on MI bought a new Road Glide in '09 which he let me ride last summer. Underwhelming is an understatement. I thought his windshield was going to snap off it was shaking so much at idle. The thing handles like a beet truck, and I think my Corolla would give it a good run in the acceleration department...and this thing has aftermarket pipes, intake, and fuel manger. People who think Harleys are superior simply have not compared them to anything else...
So you don't like Harley Davidsons, I get that.
Can't you find it in your heart to let those who like them, for whatever reason, enjoy them?
Originally Posted By: bigdreama
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Propflux01
No, HD sells because it is a product that people feel is good enough quality that they rate it superior over other makes. HD's advertising leaves much to be desired, to me.
You always bash any thread with HD in it, I am willing to bet you haven't ridden one either lately, or since the pan head was introduced. Advertisement or not, If it were so lackluster, and underwhelming, as you so believe, no amount of advertising would convince the public to continue to buy the product. What was intended to be conveyed was the use of "Made in USA", which is glamorized in everything from autos to tools.
Wrong. HD sells because people are brainwashed by the iconic name...it's an American company so they think they're getting an American made product (which they're not), and they want to be part of the look-at-me-I-make-so-much-money-I-can-afford-to-blow-$30K+-on-a-motorcycle crowd.
You'd also lose your bet. A friend of mine on MI bought a new Road Glide in '09 which he let me ride last summer. Underwhelming is an understatement. I thought his windshield was going to snap off it was shaking so much at idle. The thing handles like a beet truck, and I think my Corolla would give it a good run in the acceleration department...and this thing has aftermarket pipes, intake, and fuel manger. People who think Harleys are superior simply have not compared them to anything else...
So you don't like Harley Davidsons, I get that.
Can't you find it in your heart to let those who like them, for whatever reason, enjoy them?
Sure
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Propflux01
No, HD sells because it is a product that people feel is good enough quality that they rate it superior over other makes. HD's advertising leaves much to be desired, to me.
You always bash any thread with HD in it, I am willing to bet you haven't ridden one either lately, or since the pan head was introduced. Advertisement or not, If it were so lackluster, and underwhelming, as you so believe, no amount of advertising would convince the public to continue to buy the product. What was intended to be conveyed was the use of "Made in USA", which is glamorized in everything from autos to tools.
Wrong. HD sells because people are brainwashed by the iconic name...it's an American company so they think they're getting an American made product (which they're not), and they want to be part of the look-at-me-I-make-so-much-money-I-can-afford-to-blow-$30K+-on-a-motorcycle crowd.
You'd also lose your bet. A friend of mine on MI bought a new Road Glide in '09 which he let me ride last summer. Underwhelming is an understatement. I thought his windshield was going to snap off it was shaking so much at idle. The thing handles like a beet truck, and I think my Corolla would give it a good run in the acceleration department...and this thing has aftermarket pipes, intake, and fuel manger. People who think Harleys are superior simply have not compared them to anything else...
So you don't like Harley Davidsons, I get that.
Can't you find it in your heart to let those who like them, for whatever reason, enjoy them?
Sure
I think the concerns over what parts/components of these new bikes will be Indian made is valid. However, I am betting with this big of a gamble, that Harley Davidson will be keeping a keen eye on quality control if the Engine/Trans assembly is made over there. It is a big gamble to go small displacement(almost a throwback in a sense) and water cooled given the base clientele it already has. To screw it up royally would take a long time to correct and lure new and different buyers again.
That being said, I think India has the potential to be a decent center for manufacturing. There was a time when Made in Japan meant things were junk, but that changed. Then it was the same for Korea, and then Taiwan, and so on and so on. As Asia industrializes and catches up, albeit in a very uneven way in most nations, I think they will be able to offer reliable products. While the Indian made Royal Enfields are not that great for sure, they are indeed better than the older ones by miles, and that is coming from a company without the resources of Harley. I think I would wait a year to buy one and see what bugs, if any, the new models develop.
That being said, I think India has the potential to be a decent center for manufacturing. There was a time when Made in Japan meant things were junk, but that changed. Then it was the same for Korea, and then Taiwan, and so on and so on. As Asia industrializes and catches up, albeit in a very uneven way in most nations, I think they will be able to offer reliable products. While the Indian made Royal Enfields are not that great for sure, they are indeed better than the older ones by miles, and that is coming from a company without the resources of Harley. I think I would wait a year to buy one and see what bugs, if any, the new models develop.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Propflux01 said:
I would like to see parts origin labels required for motorcycles. Would be interesting. FWIW a lot of the accessories I bought for my Dyna are made in Taiwan and Korea. Some are made in USA, though. I'm a firm believer in buying American when the choice is there. After all, we all make our money here. Why not try to keep it here?
There are laws for cars that have to state what % of their content is domestic, and what % is foreign made. But nothing for motorcycles. Only the package the parts come in as your guide. As far as why Harley's are so popular,there a stable brand. They don't come out with new and improved models every other year. You would think all the hype the metrics come out with would out sell Harley ,but they don't. The metric makers change models and designs too often to make then classics. Their popularity drops as fast as their value.Honda ,Kawasaki, and Suzuki all took a run at building bigger ,badder bikes then what Harley was selling, only to drop them from the line up after lousy sales.When you have warehouses full of 2 and 3 year old unsold bikes, what does that tell you about all the " better technology"?.It's funny when a brand thinks a cheap price will sell vehicles, and they fall flat on their face. Even Victory and the new and improved "Indian" brands haven't unseated the undisputed king of motorcycles, Harley. Anything else is just a wannabe.,,
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2007
- Messages
- 5,294
I think HD is going for the hipster crowd with these new models. Same folks who gravitate toward Triumph Bonnies, Thruxtons, and wear 3/4 helmets all the time. Can't fault them for this, just trying to expand their market share.
You must remember, the annual demand for bikes is going to rise about 6-7% globally for the next 5 years or so. Most of that is going to be in Asia, where smaller, lighter bikes sell best. Given that the United States has a most lackluster economy with relatively flat wages, the "king of all motorcycle brands" had better adapt to thrive. Lots of people cannot afford to throw down the cash on a new Harley outside a 883 Sportster, and that ride doesnt work for most. The segment of the U.S. buyer market that can buy the big twins from Harley is aging and will shrink.
And last I checked, Harley may have about 48% of the U.S. market share, however its usually 4th or 5th globally behind Honda, Yamaha, and Kawasaki. It tends to outsell Suzuki at times. So I wouldn't call it the dominating brand in a global economy by any means.
And last I checked, Harley may have about 48% of the U.S. market share, however its usually 4th or 5th globally behind Honda, Yamaha, and Kawasaki. It tends to outsell Suzuki at times. So I wouldn't call it the dominating brand in a global economy by any means.
Last edited:
- Status
