Hard starting generator

[Dave Sherman]

I may live to regret buying an inverter generator of unknown reputation. It's a Powerhouse PH2100PRi. It came with a Torch spark plug, type A7RTC. It's being especially hard to start in the cold, despite having an electric start. Thinking about replacing it with an NGK CR7HSA to see if it improves. It smells pretty gassy at the exhaust after much cranking before it finally coughs, makes copious amounts of smoke, then stalls. The latter seems to be a lousy automatic choke that seems to open too quickly since I can hold the choke closed and it keeps running.

Is the Torch spark plug any good, or is it junk?

 

[Donald]

Never heard of a Torch spark plug. Is this a Chinese engine?

These days, most OPE engines start on the first or second pull.

Was this a cheap generator?

 

[Dave Sherman]

Yep, Chinese engine with a Chinese spark plug. Once it starts it runs fine and has a clean output. Yes, cheaper than its Honda and Yamaha competitors, so it may be just a cheap generator.

 

[Quest]

sounds like a carb issue.

If no improvements after replacing the spark plug, then you may have to consider getting the carb fixed.

Q.

 

[bvance554]

I have a Chonda that came with a Torch plug and it runs and starts fine. I'd look at the carb. Also, alot of the Chonda's have adjustable valves, and valves that are out of adjustment are a common cause of hard starting. If you explore that route there are plenty of how-tos' on the youtube.

 

[eljefino]

Many of those engines also have a compression release which if it isn't working right will cause issues... +2 on the valve adjustment idea.

You may also have to re-jet your carb a little richer, particularly if you have E10 fuel. Going super lean (so it surges) is a Chonda EPA gimmick. I got a bunch of tiny hobby drill bits for about $6 shipped that I used to open up my main jets on my snowblowers.

 

[dave123]

change plug and cut the low oil shut down wire.

 

[mikered30]

Check the plug gap.

 

[chad8]

Torch plugs come in most China scooters ,etc. They are JUNK. Bad insulators and foul/fail easy
That is not your problem. You either have an electric choke problem , a clogged idle circuit , or a clogged or undersized main jet.
Once in a while , there may be a fuel petcock issue if it is the vacuum type. I doubt it in this case.
Look on ebay at scooter carburetors and the way the electric choke bolts to the top of your carburetor. It is 2 small screws. replace it first. Also go to the store and buy a can of berrymans b-12. Add the recommended amount + a little to your gas. this may help too. .

 

[RF Overlord]

Here is a link to pix of the Torch spark-plug factory.

http://curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=1063782

 

[Dave Sherman]

Originally Posted By: dave123
change plug and cut the low oil shut down wire.


I don't see what the point of cutting the low oil shut down wire is. Clearly, if see the spark plug sparking when I remove it, the low oil light isn't glaring at me while I'm trying to start it, and it runs fine for hours once it starts, then that isn't the problem.

Thanks all, a little more information. It doesn't have an electric choke, it's just a vacuum pull-off. There's a check valve in the vacuum line that's supposed to let the choke open slowly and to keep it from shutting between strokes, but it works poorly. I see it stays closed while cranking with the electric starter.

Where would this compression release be located? The service manual doesn't make mention of one. I don't think it has one, since you can pull the rope and feel the compression.

Reading around it appears that hard starting in cold is a common complaint for this generator. I was leaning toward the spark plug since I can smell fuel at the exhaust long before it coughs, and the puff of smoke when it starts makes me think it's getting plenty of gas.

 

[cronk]

Many of the Chonda engines come with Torch spark plugs.
They are junk, most of the online reviews will tell you to replace it with an NGK right away.
The gap will be fine and it will fire when tested out of the engine, but in actual operating conditions they break down and misfire.
I would replace the plug before I trouble shoot anything else.

 

[itguy08]

I think it's the auto choke that these engines are now using (thanks EPA!).

I've got a Lifan 13hp on our Harbor Freight 5500 watt generator and in the cold it can take a while to catch. But once it does it runs perfectly fine. The start sequence is usually - turn key and let it crank for 5-10 seconds and then release. Let it sit a couple seconds and repeat. By the 2nd-3rd crank it's firing and a nice cloud of smoke comes out. I changed the Torch plug for an Autolite from Wal-Mart (all I could find locally before the hurricane last year) and it made no difference.

In the summer she fires right up.

Come to think of it, all my OPE is a little cranky when it's cold - the Briggs 6.5 lawn mower, the Briggs V-twin, etc. The only thing that really isn't is the Tecumseh Snow King...

 

[Errtt]

At least ditch the chinese plug for a good one as a start, then go from there if/as needed. May or may not be a plug problem - friend had difficult HF gen starting, then got to no start. He changed the plug and its back to running. Starts easier then when new. Cheap & easy starting point.

 

[Dave Sherman]

Update:

Tried the unused spare spark plug, which didn't make much difference. Checked the spark plug gaps, and it turns out they were gapped at .02", but the service manuals call for 0.024-.028. Didn't make much difference after opening them to .028, though.

Finally got curious and pulled out the carburetor. After dismantling it, I found particles of grit in the bowl, jet, and emulsion tube. Houston! We have a problem! Almost looked like particles of aluminum left over from manufacturing. After unscrewing the jet, blowing out the holes in the emulsion tube with Gumout, and blowing everything out with air, things looked much cleaner.

The gaskets sealing the carb to the intake elbow and the elbow to the intake looked to be in poor shape. Seems the holes weren't quite the right size for the screws, and had bunched up around them. Also had some gasket material stuck to the mating surfaces. Got some gasket paper and made new ones, then used some fine steel wool to get the old gasket crud off the mating surfaces.

Lastly, the service manual pointed out where the mixture needle valve was, but had a note saying "not adjustable on CARB units". Sure enough, there's a little cup-shaped plug pressed in over it. A small drill bit popped it right out with ease, and I took out the needle valve to blow out the orifice.

Result? It's vastly improved. Still the matter of the choke pulling off too quickly, but even at a wild guess for the needle valve setting, it started easily after priming the fuel pump. Turns out the needle valve is idle mixture; it has little effect when it's under load and the throttle is open. With no load the idle was very unstable, but some tweaking of that needle valve and it idles even better than before I started. Now it idles evenly without surging or hunting around.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Quest
sounds like a carb issue.

If no improvements after replacing the spark plug, then you may have to consider getting the carb fixed.

Q.


It is a carb issue no question.