Harbor Freight Tools

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
shipped across the ocean (by probably foreign workers) and unloaded at the dock.


Supposition, unsupported with any fact!


What supposition? It's a fact that china has one of the biggest shipping lines along with several other countries. What fact have you gave that supports that shipping is American and not internationally based? You defend HF and chinese tool imports with so much zealous it makes me wonder.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
...

I have been really tempted to buy one of those "Chicago Electric" two stroke generators too, but haven't justified a need for one yet. I sometimes do work at houses that have no utilities hooked up and it would be nice to know I can bring portable electricity without having to run the truck if I need to. ....


I had a cheap two stroke chinese genset (not HF) and a couple of guys that worked for me managed to kill it in a few weeks just running light strings.

Maybe they have improved, and they might be just the ticket for very light occasional use, but don't expect much from one.

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
From what you say it seems you hardly even use your tools much and maybe don't really need them much. But not every chinese made tool is bought to use a couple times. As I mentioned they've taken over the low end and really most of the market. Some people would strive to borrow, buy used, improvise or heaven forbid pay what it cost for domestic and quality rather than buy low quality chinese tools.



Bingo! No I do not use my tools much anymore, remember I'm 68 yrs old, and a disabled vet, "no I'm not using that as a crutch", just pointing out why I do not use my tools a bunch.

I still change my own oil and rotate my own tires. An oil change takes my approx 2 1/2 to 3 hours even using ramps, a tire rotation is an all afternoon job, so no my tools are not hardly used.

Regarding the hammer, your description of low quality chinese tools I wonder if you have ever owned a chinese hammer and used one much, or a hand sledge for that matter. I used a chinese sledge weekly for approx 2 to 3 hours for 20 plus years, haven't used it now for 12 years, but it looks the same now as it did as when I bought it new except for a few scratches. Never even needed to replace the wooden handle.

I purchased it at a flea market for less than $5.00, U.S. brand was over $35.00. Do I care to pass it down? I seriously doubt my daughter who is a works for a bank as a translator could care less, but I'll ask her the next time I see her.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Win

I don't see any difference in principle between buying a new BMW or Mercedes (or Jaguar or Holden, as I buy) and buying HF goods. A lost job is a lost job. I doubt that the displaced worker here gives a fig that his job went to Germany, or Australia, or Japan, or the United Kingdom instead of China. That job is still gone.

Cheap goods from China may indeed be a serious problem, but the bigger problem is that we depend on loans from them. Calling our loans will bring us down a lot faster than one dollar hammers from HF.


First word nations like Germany, Japan, Australia....etc all have similar costs of living to our own. They need to make good products to compete in our market, and those products are produced by people making a similar wage to Americans, and having a similar quality of life. Germany isn't "dumping" BMW's here anymore than Japan is "dumping" Toyota's.

China is being exploited for their cheap wages, lax safety and environmental standards to dump inferior products through gateways like Harbour Freight, Walmart....etc to undercut the companies that all have to compete at a reasonable price point due to their manufacturing costs.

 

[doitmyself]

I wonder why we are so passionate about certain items being made overseas and not others?

Most of my work wear is made overseas (flannel shirts, pants, coats, etc.) and I don't give much thought to it. Yet, the idea of a Chinese Craftsman wrench infuriates me. Even the high quality Carhart clothes are made in China now.

jcwit, I think I understand your point. You allocate your money based on the value you expect to get from it.

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
shipped across the ocean (by probably foreign workers) and unloaded at the dock.


Supposition, unsupported with any fact!


What supposition? It's a fact that china has one of the biggest shipping lines along with several other countries. What fact have you gave that supports that shipping is American and not internationally based? You defend HF and chinese tool imports with so much zealous it makes me wonder.


Good Grief man, what makes you think the shipping line is an fact chinese or American.

You have such a closed mind it seems more like you just wish to argue and nothing more.

You seem totally unable to even attempt to grasp what I'm putting across.

I'm guessing you are a strong union man.

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
jcwit, I think I understand your point. You allocate your money based on the value you expect to get from it.


We have a winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Win
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
IS the Craftsman compressor really made in US? I imagin it is made with a lot of china parts. Still no excuse for the high price if even partially made in the US. ....




No one seems to get their britches in a bunch over all the cheap, or expensive, imported cars that dominate the roads in this country. How are the cheap items HF brings in any different?

I don't see any difference in principle between buying a new BMW or Mercedes (or Jaguar or Holden, as I buy) and buying HF goods. A lost job is a lost job. I doubt that the displaced worker here gives a fig that his job went to Germany, or Australia, or Japan, or the United Kingdom instead of China. That job is still gone.

Cheap goods from China may indeed be a serious problem, but the bigger problem is that we depend on loans from them. Calling our loans will bring us down a lot faster than one dollar hammers from HF.


Well some people do see the same principle with imported cars. But the other side justifies that too. One counter argument is that BMW's for instance are made with more expensive labor than ever was in North American so they could never economically put American production out, and that Germany buys some of our products. Whether it's cheap hammers and tools, electronics and eventually cars and plains and everything else, it seems to all be going to china and that's a problem. The cheap chinese tools certainly are not the biggest thing, but if you use and like tools, the low quality and displacing of affordable better American tools can be off putting.

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
China is being exploited for their cheap wages, lax safety and environmental standards to dump inferior products through gateways like Harbour Freight, Walmart....etc to undercut the companies that all have to compete at a reasonable price point due to their manufacturing costs.


Don't forget our EPA regulations killing many industries here. We'll just let the smog drift from over there.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


First word nations like Germany, Japan, Australia....etc all have similar costs of living to our own. .....


No disrespect intended, but so what? If I'm unemployed, what difference does it make to me where my job went? I'm still looking for a job.

 

[Trav]

Quote:

I don't see any difference in principle between buying a new BMW or Mercedes (or Jaguar or Holden, as I buy) and buying HF goods. A lost job is a lost job. I doubt that the displaced worker here gives a fig that his job went to Germany, or Australia, or Japan, or the United Kingdom instead of China. That job is still gone.


How many American jobs have gone over to Germany, the UK, Australia, Japan etc?
How many of these countries companies actually insource workers in the US in jobs ?

How many Chinese companies are insourcing labor in the US?

Just a few companies. Are these jobs lost in their home country benefiting Americans ?

EADS North America: The U.S. operations of Netherlands-based global aerospace and defense giant EADS supports more than 200,000 American jobs coast to coast.

Sodexo, Inc.: French-based food workers and facilities management company employs 110,000 American workers.

BAE Systems: British defense and aerospace company employs over 45,000 workers across the country.

Nestle USA: Switzerland-based Nestlé operates 82 U.S. factories and employs over 42,000 American workers.

T-Mobile USA: German wireless services provider, owned by Deutsche Telekom, employs 41,000 Americans.

Thomson Reuters: Information company, 53% Canadian-owned, employs 26,000 Americans.

Sony Corporation of America: Japanese electronics firm has 15,000 American employees.

BASF Corporation: The largest chemical company in the world is headquartered in Germany and has 15,000 American workers.

Alstom: France-based global transportation infrastructure and energy company employs about 6,000 American workers.

The countries you mention are allies with common interest and goals and are committed to provide a high quality of life for its citizens. China on the other hand is an undeclared enemy of the US with only the destruction of the US economy as their primary goal (and subsequent rebuilding of it in their best interest) even at the expense of the citizens.
Every veteran AFAIK swears an oath to protect the country from all enemies foreign and domestic, supporting the Chinese in any way is treacherous by providing aid to the enemy IMHO.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
jcwit, I think I understand your point. You allocate your money based on the value you expect to get from it.


We have a winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If you would just say that is all you care about. But no, you go on about how imports don't really cost that many jobs, downplay the quality issue and even went for the "union man" quip. I suspect there's more than perceived value behind it. Some HF tools have no value and some are passable so the value is debatable. Anyway, I think I'm done discussing HF tools with you.

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
jcwit, I think I understand your point. You allocate your money based on the value you expect to get from it.


We have a winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If you would just say that is all you care about. But no, you go on about how imports don't really cost that many jobs, downplay the quality issue and even went for the "union man" quip. I suspect there's more than perceived value behind it. Some HF tools have no value and some are passable so the value is debatable. Anyway, I think I'm done discussing HF tools with you.


Did you even bother reading my post regarding Lee Reloading equipment which is made entirely here in the U.S. of A with U.S. raw materials.

Your words: I suspect there's more than perceived value behind it.

Supposition on your part again.

BTW "discussing" is the wrong word.

 

[mechanicx]

See that's what gets me. If we put aside that a low production cost country could entirely closed down domestic industry whereas another 1st world country could not, still why does everything have to be made in china? That's really the worst places on earth you could outsource to for the reasons that you mention.

There's got to be at least a dozen other viable lower cost places that could be outsourced to for industry. China would seem to be one of the worst, or I don't know maybe Pakistan lol. I really don't want to do any business with china but we don't totally have the choice.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
.....Every veteran AFAIK swears an oath to protect the country from all enemies foreign and domestic, supporting the Chinese in any way is treacherous by providing aid to the enemy IMHO.

Well IMHO, what a bunch of tripe. "Treachorous" as in dishonest, disloyal, traitorous and treasonable? SHAME on you, for even implying or suggesting that of a veteran and poster here.

I thank jcwit for his service, and if he chooses to shop at HF for his reasons, then that's his business and his right. One that he fought/served for.

I'm not sure why this thread hasn't been locked yet, it so now so far off topic. While after three pages, one about MLM schemes, gets locked before it "blows up."

 

[antiqueshell]

Considering the sky rocketing cost of shipping long distances with the increasingly cost of oil, the cost benefit of making goods in slave wage China is quickly going away. I would bet that if oil goes to 150 a barrel that even with higher wages in the USA and some more regulation it will still be cheaper to produce the items here than in China or some other distant developing country.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
I wonder why we are so passionate about certain items being made overseas and not others?

Most of my work wear is made overseas (flannel shirts, pants, coats, etc.) and I don't give much thought to it. Yet, the idea of a Chinese Craftsman wrench infuriates me. Even the high quality Carhart clothes are made in China now.

jcwit, I think I understand your point. You allocate your money based on the value you expect to get from it.


Interesting. I apply the same metric to everything I purchase, be it clothing, shoes, tools or car parts. I make solid attempts to purchase goods manufactured in first-world nations across the board.

Just bought my one son a nice set of US-made sneakers for example. I have jeans made in Canada or the USA.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
Well IMHO, what a bunch of tripe. "Treachorous" as in dishonest, disloyal, traitorous and treasonable? SHAME on you, for even implying or suggesting that of a veteran and poster here

Did i mention any names?
Of course its treacherous to buy and therefor support someone bent on ruining the countries economy. Thats anyone not just veterans.
I am a veteran, that and $2 will get me a coffee at DD. I don't want or expect any thanks for serving, i enlisted and got paid. It certainly has nothing to do buying HF junk.

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Considering the sky rocketing cost of shipping long distances with the increasingly cost of oil, the cost benefit of making goods in slave wage China is quickly going away.


Th average annual income in china is $14,000 per year check here.

http://www.averagesalarysurvey.com/article/average-salary-in-china/15201531.aspx

While not up to U.S. standards its far from slave labor.

Remember they are now the largest auto market in the world.

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: Trav
I am a veteran, that and $2 will get me a coffee at DD. I don't want or expect any thanks for serving, i enlisted and got paid. It certainly has nothing to do buying HF junk.


It does if you're living on a disablity pension.