Originally Posted By: bigmike
I don't think I have a problem per se with the point JHZR2 is making. USA jobs, economy, and purchasing USA equipped items that hare manufactured here are all good, patriotic things to do.
When someone condescendingly states that someone else's choice to do something different, especially vocalizing that the person is somehow receiving the benefit because he has a good, well-paying USA job and implies that his tax money helps pay for the benefit check the other member is receiving, then that takes it to an entirely different level of discussion.
There is no honor in that kind of debate. I'd rather we look to positive ways to assist others.
I work with too many disabled people, perhaps. What you are saying is true - MANY do consider their disability check to be just some gift of society and do not attempt to better their employment status. But, MANY do not.
I'm glad you are a voice of reason, which you typically are in BITOG threads. Maybe this will help end the side show.
We all know, in an ideal world, that the vast population here would purchase products, especially tools, from good manufacturers here. I know I would. I do in many cases. But, sometimes we can't or cannot justify it. I don't think anyone makes that point or statement with pride.
Maybe you should reread my posts.
There are points there that perhaps you did not read or recognize.
You make it as if I want to trash a vet or be mean to someone for some random reason.
The only reason why I had anything to say about disabled vet status or anything related to pensions is because one HAS to remember where the funds come from.
What's the discussion here? Chinese made stuff. What happens when stuff is made in China versus here? We loose American jobs. How can you disagree?
But what happens when we stop making stuff, and turn into a country selling Chinese stuff for $5/hr at the HF store?
Yeah, the tax base goes down, and then what happens to all the payments like pensions and whatnot? Is it not all related?
I paid over $60k in taxes for 2011. I dont say that to brag or act fancy, Im not. I worked hard and long for that. But Im paying a LOT in taxes and one has to realize that if there are entitlements, yet we are making LESS stuff, less good-paying jobs, what happens? What happens when we have all these extended unemployment checks and everything else? It comes from taxing people, and from creating debt that Ill be paying through my lifetime to service. There is too much P there to discuss, but you have to realize that the issue of manufacturing, having a strong economic position, and not being undercut by China are all critical to maintaining the ability of folks to get pensions (look at what has happened to many private pensions after all).
So anything you perceive as an attack on a disability pension or anything else is entirely the reality that we MUST have the ability to produce, maintain employment and support a viable tax base in this country so that we can even make entitlement payments like that. If everyone is buying Chinese stuff and causing jobs to get farmed out, then the ability to solidly pay for things like pensions is compromised. The "attack" that you perceived is nothing more than a comment that one has to recognize that we cant do this forever and maintain paying stuff. I'd hate to see what happens when we default on debt and this kind of stuff CANT be paid out at the levels it even is now.
I didnt appreciate the commentary that vets' service entitles them to buy Chinese stuff. That offends me.
I do appreciate that vets' sacrifice for my ability to live in a place where we have the ability to succeed and make as much out of ourselves as is humanly possible. And I do everything in my power to by American and support jobs here.
For you to make assumptions on how good or bad I am, and how rude or mean I am based upon internet forum discussion is really a poor practice. You dont have any idea what I do for a living, how I donate time, effort or money to, how I support veterans or any other cause. If you did perhaps you wouldnt be so quick to judge me based upon comments pointed entirely towards caring about the economics and manufacturing capability of the USA which is directly tied to the maintenance of things like the disability pension that jcwit is dependent upon. Do you really think the Chinese or I care more about veterans' pensions, or anything associated with US manufacturing and jobs???????
And all this means that I can have, and express valid fears of our ever-waning manufacturing base and inability to pay our bills (how much of that is pensions, medical, etc?). If you think that is an attack or attempt to be mean at someone, then so be it. And if you disagree that buying Chinese stuff errodes our manufacturing base and by extension working base and tax base here, then just say so. If you think it is just all good, then so be it.
But if you care to scold me for having those concerns and expressing them here, regardless of whose commentary I expressed it against, then so be it. That's on you.
And if you care to take exception to my points, then how about you stop derailing things as you have at this point, and tell me what you really think via PM.
jcwit, I hope you realize that this is past my discussion with you and any disagreement or issues with your points. You are free to have your opinions and make your decisions, as am I. But so long as this commentary about my points continue, I will still be engaged. I am sorry that we volleyed as many times. You have to do what you have to do, I have to be cognizant of my fellow countrymen for the next 60 or so years that I will hopefully live. It may drive us to different decisions, but I trust that you understand that the ability of the USA to remain the dominant nation the world over is in my best interest, and any and all debts, interest payments and effects due to loss of capability in this USA economy will effect me over my entire life... SO I must be considerate of it. Thank you for your service, and please let us know how we can be of assistance to you.
