German oil fullsynthetic and synthesetechnologie

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Hey boys thanks to all for advices.
But the point of the question was: is it convenient to spend for fullsynthetic instead for a hydrocracked (at the same price), and so much to limit the choice to a very few oils?
 
Trav you know the matter, so i have just a question.
In Germany "true synthetic" oil are labelled with "vollsynthese" and hydrocracked oil with "synthese technology". Ok. But an oil labelled "100% synthetic" what is meant in Germany?
In practice I found this Total at my vendor store in Germany, the seller in the description says it's a "Synthese technology", but on the packaging shows "100% synthetic", is it "vollsynthese"?
 
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if u understand French , in Canada it's synthese techno
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" Lubrifiant 100% synthèse de technologie " as mentionned in this pdf :
http://www.total-lubrifiants.ca/Pages/content/NT00008396.pdf
in this fds
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http://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&ved=0CGAQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.s-oil-total.com%2Fcommon%2FfileDownload.do%3Fuuid%3DQuartz%2520energy%25209000%25200W30%2520MSDS.pdf&ei=KhU1UIStHOuz0QXppoGIBg&usg=AFQjCNGH-LUtg7WXlW0K-vQT3sRTWLKtmg
 
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Thanks Oub.
Total Quartz 9000 0w30 still remains a great choice because, despite it's a group 3, has a very good price.

I think that the difference between a good group 3 (synthetic technology) oil and a PAO (full synthetic) is little...but i'm certain that a group 3 oils costs much less to the oil company. I get bored if I paid the same price a group3 oil and a PAO oil.
But Total 9000 costs less that other group 3 oil and PAO, so it's a great choice for me.
 
Originally Posted By: Vincenzo_f
But an oil labelled "100% synthetic" what is meant in Germany?


It can say "100% synthetic" all it likes as a marketing hype to play with words, but if you notice, it doesn't say full synthetic or Vollsynthetisches.
 
Quote:
found this Total at my vendor store in Germany, the seller in the description says it's a "Synthese technology",

In France and the rest of Europe (except Germany, Austria and Switzerland. A&S were still using the German standard last time i looked in 2011) can call anything synthetic as long as they change the base stock by hydro cracking or maybe other methods.

A true synthetic will have "Full synthetic or vollsynthese" on the container.
The words synthetic or 100% synthetic is no guarantee its anything but reworked dino oil.
vollsynthese is reserved for group IV and V oils but there is a fly in the ointment now, GTL which by definition is a true full synthetic oil and is called group III+.
The question is will German law allow it to be labelled as such?

I have no problem running a modern group III oil at all anywhere as long as i wasn't paying the same or a premium over PAO or ester based oils.
Like i said GTL is an issue, you may find some oils being produced with this base stock but are not labelled "vollsynthese" because of legal definitions.

This is interesting.

http://www.stle.org/assets/document/GTL.pdf
 
From the Motul website "A Motul 100% synthetic lubricant is a lubricant composed of synthetic base oil" So, what does this mean? Anything? I just purchased 10L of Motul Xcess 5W40 thinking it is real synthetic and great oil. Also, LN Engineering recommends it for water cooled Porsches. I feel confident it's good stuff, but I hate all the deception.
 
Its a full synthetic.
2 Liter MOTUL 8100 X-CESS SAE 5W-40, VOLLSYNTHETISCH

Check the oils on this site, anything with vollsynthetische in the description is a true group IV or V.
ANYTHING and EVERYTHING else is just marketing.
Some examples, all meaningless tripe.

Mobil SHC Synthese TechnologyTM
Castrol EDGE Professional mit Fluid Strength Technology (some edge is full synthetic).
auf Basis der Aral Low SAPS-Technology
Motorenöl der Spitzenklasse
Premium Motorenöl der Spitzenklasse mit neuartiger XTL-Technologie

Some genuine full synthetic..

eni i-Sint tech 0W-30 ist ein modernes vollsynthetisches Motorenöl
Castrol EDGE FORMULA RS 0W-40, das vollsynthetische Hochleistungsöl
Shell Helix Ultra ist das voll-synthetische Hochleistungs
Motorenöl

Notice the swine's charge the same for lower quality as they do for full synthetic.
I love the German law the buggers cant get over with their lies, false advertising and deception. They have to come clean!

German Oil.
 
Trav now I buy oil only in Germany, just for this reason. There I have the certainty of knowing what I buy. The thing that bother me is that I have to pay for a product that costs less (synthetic technology), at the same price of a product that surely cost more to manufacturer (full synthetic).

ps.: Shell Helix Ultra is fully synthetic only in 0W30 grade ;(
Any times ago also 0W40 was 100% synthetic, but now on the bottle appears the word "synthetic technology"...and the price has remained unchanged.
 
The Helix Ultra is 0w40 is full synthetic also, buy it from Germany. It maybe a different formula in the rest of Europe.
You need to look in the full descriptions sometimes.
Shell Helix Ultra is very good stuff and the price is the same as many group III oils.

A lot of Americans will say buy the oil based on performance not the group but when you pay pocket money (in comparison) for oil that's a fair statement.
On the other hand in Europe they have no trouble charging the same money for group III as PAO or Ester based oils.
With claims like performs almost as good as PAO and similar performance like PAO, give me the real PAO then, your charging me for it.

Like i said IMHO its about honesty in pricing and truth in advertising not just the performance.
Now give me group III at half the price like in the the US and we have no discussion, i am buying the group III based stuff.
Imagine paying 22 Euro for 5 ltr GTL base oil like Pennzoil Ultra in a retail store? Its a gift, the only way they could sell cheaper is if they threw it at you as you were walking out the door.
 
Trav i agree TOTALLY with you. 100%.

ps.: regarding the Shell 0w40, look here. I take the image from my usual german store, on the bottle is stated "synthesetechnologie". I remember that few months ago it was vollsynthese.
 
The 0w40 is not full synthetic going by the picture.
Their description is wrong, they may have used the same one as the 0w30.
It always pays to look at the bottle, it must by law state what it is as you can see.

LM has a few full synthetics also but are not sold on this site.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
The 0w40 is not full synthetic going by the picture.
Their description is wrong, they may have used the same one as the 0w30.
It always pays to look at the bottle, it must by law state what it is as you can see.

LM has a few full synthetics also but are not sold on this site.


Yes, i know, LM (or Meguin, i think they are the same) fully syn are very impressive oils with great value for price. I think that, at the next oci, i will try their oils.

ps.: oil like this, a fully syn for 6 euro/l (!) and with very interesting spec.
 
Liqui-Moly has Synthoil Energy 0w40, which looks to be a PAO-heavy oil. Specs are on-par with M1 0w40. Frankly it's one of the only oils of theirs I'd ever consider using.
 
I had been looking at Total and LM before deciding on Motul for my Porsche. Here in the USA, LM is named Lubro Moly Synthoil Premium (5W40) and from what I've been able to glean is that it is formulated differently for US sales than in Europe- group 3 base. Same with Total. However, I can't find reliable information. These are all good oils, but as stated above, I don't want to pay a premium for deceptive marketing and buy from a corporation that's not upfront and honest.
 
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Quote:
LM is named Lubro Moly Synthoil Premium (5W40) and from what I've been able to glean is that it is formulated differently for US sales than in Europe- group 3 base
They cheapen it for the US market, in Germany it is labelled as a full synthetic.
Looking at the price difference it looks to be price driven to keep it competitive with US oils.

They did label it properly though in the US, it has synthetic technology right on the label not full synthetic. No deception there.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
LM is named Lubro Moly Synthoil Premium (5W40) and from what I've been able to glean is that it is formulated differently for US sales than in Europe- group 3 base
They cheapen it for the US market, in Germany it is labelled as a full synthetic.
Looking at the price difference it looks to be price driven to keep it competitive with US oils.

They did label it properly though in the US, it has synthetic technology right on the label not full synthetic. No deception there.



Correct. It's still an okay oil, though I have yet to understand why the VW/Audi guys go crazy for it and pay $8/qt. I ran it once, UOA was rather mediocre.
 
Question: Since the formula is cheapened for the USA, I wonder if the approvals are valid or are the oil companies trying to again deceive us by stating all the appropriate approvals of the Euro oils on the stuff sold here(USA). Anyone wanna chime in on this?
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
LM is named Lubro Moly Synthoil Premium (5W40) and from what I've been able to glean is that it is formulated differently for US sales than in Europe- group 3 base
They cheapen it for the US market, in Germany it is labelled as a full synthetic.
Looking at the price difference it looks to be price driven to keep it competitive with US oils.

They did label it properly though in the US, it has synthetic technology right on the label not full synthetic. No deception there.



Correct. It's still an okay oil, though I have yet to understand why the VW/Audi guys go crazy for it and pay $8/qt. I ran it once, UOA was rather mediocre.
 
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