Gear lube, Marine verses Auto versions

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"What special additives? Show me the formulation! They can make the same claim for vanilla GL5."


First of all, you an't never gonna see the formula but I did point you to the additives that are used in Marine Gear Lubes.

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That is meaningless..show me a link to the marine gear lube, so I can compare to automotive and see what the difference is.


You're a big boy so just google for Marine Gear lubes and look at the PDS's, but you an't never gonna see the formula, but I did point you to the additives that are used in Marine Gear Lubes.

If you need any help with the chemical/chemistry explanations let me know.

Just go to the Amsoil website and see if you can tell any differences between the automotive 755W90's and their Marine Gear Lube.
 
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The real answer for the difference in Volvo vs. Mercruiser is that Volvo simply could not care what happens if you have water intrusion. It's very unlikely to be a warranty claim unless the seal failure was their fault, so why worry? It's the same situation with them having done away with exhaust shutters. If you get water up your exhaust, they're going to tell you to call your insurance company. That's it.

Lots of people use automotive gear lubes in the outdrive. It's not the end of the world. Marine gear lubes have additives that will give you extra protection if the worst should occur. It's no different from any other oil additive.

Is a high-end synthetic engine oil a scam because I can get away with some cheap dino for 300,000 miles? Of course not.

Maybe seatbelts and airbags are a scam because I never use them, and people die all the time with them anyway.

Use what you want to use.

As far as the Merc rep is concerned, he probably knows nothing about the formulation himself. I've asked plenty of company reps hardcore tech questions in the past, and gotten the same empty answers, or admissions that they really don't have anything to do with the technical side of things.
 
I am the original OP for this post. My original point was that other than going with a companies marketing [censored], there is no way to determine if one fluid is better than another. In the case of marine verses auto gear lube, all I ask for is some real world tests proving benefits. And from the reaction of Molekule, you would think I committed blasphemy. Why all the defensiviness?

I think this cuts to the real issue on BITOG, and that is that all of the lubricant industry has been pulling this king of [censored] for years. It seeems a lot of claims are made with little real would testing to back them up. Sure brand X is probably better than brand Y, but in the real world, is it better by so little bit as to me meaningless?
 
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I think this cuts to the real issue on BITOG, and that is that all of the lubricant industry has been pulling this king[kind] of [censored] for years. It seeems a lot of claims are made with little real would testing to back them up. Sure brand X is probably better than brand Y, but in the real world, is it better by so little bit as to me meaningless?



Oh yea, that good ole conspiracy theory that says we're being s****d over by the man, is really nothing more than a substitute for ignorance.
 
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
I think this cuts to the real issue on BITOG, and that is that all of the lubricant industry has been pulling this king[kind] of [censored] for years. It seeems a lot of claims are made with little real would testing to back them up. Sure brand X is probably better than brand Y, but in the real world, is it better by so little bit as to me meaningless?



Oh yea, that good ole conspiracy theory that says we're being s****d over by the man, is really nothing more than a substitute for ignorance.


I never said anything about a conspiracy. In fact, I generally don't believe in conspiracies. What I said is, show me some real world tests that prove, if I use the product as I would in daily life, that it makes a meaningful difference and is worth the premium price. That's it.
 
The part I think you are missing is that in the lube business, the tests, such as the ones Molakule posted are the standard for proving real world benefits. If you have a problem with this, you have a problem with the entire lube business and petroleum engineering in general.

A company can go on all day long about how they encountered XX less wear with their lube in a gearbox than YY company's lube. The tests are the standard by which things are acutally proven. Until then, it's all just talk.

The assumption I think you have made is that a Marine Gear Lube is supposed to be a superman lube. It's not. It's just fortified with an extra layer of protection.
 
monday will be the first trip out with unknown brand 80w90 gear oil in my alpha 1 drive with a mercrusier 140hp 3 liter...

ill let ya know when it blows up...
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
The part I think you are missing is that in the lube business, the tests, such as the ones Molakule posted are the standard for proving real world benefits. If you have a problem with this, you have a problem with the entire lube business and petroleum engineering in general.

A company can go on all day long about how they encountered XX less wear with their lube in a gearbox than YY company's lube. The tests are the standard by which things are acutally proven. Until then, it's all just talk.

The assumption I think you have made is that a Marine Gear Lube is supposed to be a superman lube. It's not. It's just fortified with an extra layer of protection.


Agree, just too bad SOME of these standards tell the layman so little. In the case of marine lubes, boaters are just tired of the nickel and diming of their wallets. Everything in a marine version is always 1.5 to 2x regular costs. Sometimes it is legit as marine parts are lower volume manufactured etc...

The lube industry is especially guilty of making all kinds of claims that are basically un-proveable.
 
Granted, and understood, but in the case of Amsoil, for example, you're not getting nailed for more coin on the Marine Lube. As a matter of fact, it costs less than the equivalent Severe Gear. If they were just trying to hump your wallet, they could just recommend SVG, collect their money and call it a day.

I'd bet they didn't waste any time or money making a stout extended service formula for something that's supposed to be dumped every 75-100 hours. One way or another, if you shop Amsoil, you're saving money using Marine Lube.
 
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Agree, just too bad SOME of these standards tell the layman so little. In the case of marine lubes, boaters are just tired of the nickel and diming of their wallets. Everything in a marine version is always 1.5 to 2x regular costs. Sometimes it is legit as marine parts are lower volume manufactured etc...

The lube industry is especially guilty of making all kinds of claims that are basically un-proveable.


Yea, da man is out to get you, and only you!
banana2.gif


Well, we try to educate the layman but some layman just don't get it or are blinded by preconceived ideas.
 
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I've read almost all these posts and it's interesting to see everyone's view point on it. I've owned a few boats and my experience with out-drive oils is this, if your out-drive is filled with the proper amount or oil either "marine" or made for "automotive" use, and it doesn't have a leaky seal or hole in the unit, all will be fine when you change the oil the next time. But you could have the best , most expensive oil made on the planet in there and when fishing line cuts into your seal, water will enter the lower unit and the oil will exit the unit. Whats left will be a emulsion . Which won't provide any useful lubrication for long.The thing is, you won't know if you out-drive is full of oil or water until you drain it, or it blows while running. There's no alarm that goes off if it's been compromised. But if your lower unit is hot to the touch after being submerged in water, chances are it ain't gonna be cheap to fix.,,
 
I'm an outboard boater, and own a 50 HP Tohatsu. It's telling to me that they go out of their way to specify FC-W oils for the four strokes, and for the TLDI 2 strokes they approve only their own branded oils (though they used to have a list that included a few other brands). For lower units? "we recommend any GL-5 type SAE 80 or 90 weight oil."

I still run a full synthetic marine 80w90, but if the manufacturer doesn't think it matters, why should I pay $15/qt for something I can get for a third of the price? I think it's mostly an excuse to go to the boating store and spend more money than necessary. Go with what it says in the manual and check it often and don't let water get in.
 
Originally Posted By: whosmatt
I'm an outboard boater, and own a 50 HP Tohatsu. It's telling to me that they go out of their way to specify FC-W oils for the four strokes, and for the TLDI 2 strokes they approve only their own branded oils (though they used to have a list that included a few other brands). For lower units? "we recommend any GL-5 type SAE 80 or 90 weight oil."

I still run a full synthetic marine 80w90, but if the manufacturer doesn't think it matters, why should I pay $15/qt for something I can get for a third of the price? I think it's mostly an excuse to go to the boating store and spend more money than necessary. Go with what it says in the manual and check it often and don't let water get in.


Are you saying Tohatsu is saying to use an automotive GL-5 for the gear lube? If so, that says alot about the need for a "marine" gear lube. If Tohatsu, the world's largest outboard manufacturer does not need marine....
 
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About the emulsion; I had a volvo 270 aquamatic with a damaged axle seal. We found out after pulling the boat in the fall when changing drive oil. The oil was basically white, but I could not se any clear water in it. A good emulsion, looked like metal turning emulsion.
This was like a day after we last ran it and it had probably been running on this for at least a few hours. So, I believe in emulsifiers to help in the drives.
Changed the seal since the drive felt smooth and ran it for several years until we sold the boat.
I think some drives can run with some water for a short while at least without catastrophic failures, maybe increased wear though.
 
Couple of comments from my own research trying to work out a safe gear oil to use in a Volvo application with clutch packs;
There is marine industry self certification in the USA, however they certify only 3 engine oils that I can see, (not gear oils) in conjunction with their own marine industry members. Further certification by such a body would be helpful if self certification could be regarded as reliable.

The Marine synthetic gear oils from what I can see are in house brews. Most marine brews have no LS additive, but the odd one does. LS additives are not ideal if clutches are present.

In regards to an additive that can absorb or separate water from the oil, people talk about the oil having good water resistance. No one actually states an additive is used to achieve this - that I can see. The Techs I have spoken are hazy on this when the question is asked.

I cannot see test protocols by a body such as SAE for marine oils. All the data sheets I have read use the same indexes and procedures Auto and heavy equipment oil is measured by.

The oil data sheet for the marine application I sought ended up being a auto/heavy equipment protocol, I think because that is all there is to measure by.

Why pay around 40 per litre for OE branded oil when equivalent alternatives are available for 10 to 15.

Correct me if wrong - please.
 
Originally Posted By: whosmatt
I'm an outboard boater, and own a 50 HP Tohatsu. It's telling to me that they go out of their way to specify FC-W oils for the four strokes, and for the TLDI 2 strokes they approve only their own branded oils (though they used to have a list that included a few other brands). For lower units? "we recommend any GL-5 type SAE 80 or 90 weight oil."



The reason Tohatsu and Volvo Recommend any automotive gear oil, is because its all the same, just packaged for a different market.. The marine gear oil and engine oil is a profit center for dealers and OEM's. Thats fine, I'm in favor of people making money, and if you all want to use Marine gear oil, go for it you need it to makes you feel better.
 
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That argument falls out of the window when you realize that some independent oil manufacturers actually charge less for their marine lubes than for their automotive lubes.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
That argument falls out of the window when you realize that some independent oil manufacturers actually charge less for their marine lubes than for their automotive lubes.


Which ones are they?
 
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