Ford Diesel 6.0 Vs 6.4

[Johnny]

For those that own or have owned Ford diesel trucks this is for you. I'm in the market for a diesel truck and it will be a Ford, period. Don't care to hear opinion on how much better the Dodge or Chevy's are. What I'm trying to find out is what is the main difference between a Ford 6.0L and 6.4L. I have found an extremely clean 2006 F-250 that has the 6.0 and I can also get special supplier pricing from Ford being a Shell retiree on a new 2008 F-250 with the 6.4, so what's the main difference other than displacement.

Thanks

 

[levi]

Don't own any but use them extensively where I work.

IMO, avoid the 6.0 if you are actually going to use it for anything other than cruising down to the Dairy Queen. We've had LOTS of problems with them.

The 6.4 is designed with the new low sulphur fuel in mind, as well as stricter emissions in general. First year anything I'm always cautious about.

Good luck.

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[D-Roc]

There's a Ford Master Mechanic where I work...When I asked him about the 6.0 he only said one word- "garbage".
6.4 seems to be doing alright, other than the regen/ dpf issues and the extremely tight compartment.

 

[STG]

I've had no problems with my 2005 6.0. Many of the issues with the 6.0 seem to be correlated with:

1. Lack of maintenence. Read the manual.

2. Modifying the truck. Diesel programmers can extract over a hundred extra horsepower and 150 lb./ft. of torque. The 6.0 is an International VT275. If you buy an International 6.0 in an International/Navistar truck, I believe the maximum output is 225 horsepower. Ford's version is (2005-2006) 325 horsepower. In other words, the 6.0 is already hot-rodded from the factory. Tune it to 450 horsepower and what do you think will happen?

3. If you idle a modern emmissions equipped diesel for extended periods, yopu will screw things up. The engine will wetstack and the EGR will foul. Read the manual - 10 minutes idle per hour of operation max.

4. If you take short trips (less than 10 miles) in a modern diesel, it will wetstack and foul the EGR.

5. Ford F250/F350 trucks come with a built-in up idle curcuit. Find the apprpriate wire under the steering column (Battery Charge Protect for 1,200 RPM variable to a maximum 2,400 if ECU reads low battery voltage OR Stationary Elevated Idle Circuit for a fixed 1,200 RPM and locked torque converter for Power Take Off applications) and hook it to the factory Upfitter Switches or aftermaket switch. USE IT IF YOU IDLE THE TRUCK.

6. Don't use more that the Ford recommended 5% bio diesel. Biodiesel will clean the gunk out of your fuel tank and clog your fuel filters. It will also void your warranty.

7. My local Ford Master Diesel tech says most problems he sees out here in Cody result from the installation of secondary fuel tanks. Diesel fuel can destroy cheap tank materials and plumbing - sending the gunk into the fuel stream. Secondary tanks also encourage long term storage of fuel - not a good idea with diesel. Many ranchers out here have diesel storage tanks on their property. Filling any 6.0 or 6.4 with fuel that may be 6 months or older is stupid.

8. the 6.0 and 6.4 use pressurized engine oil to turn the fuel injectors on and off. Use high quality oil and change it when you are supposed to. Delvac 1 (Mobil 1 for turbo Diesel Trucks) works great in my engine and is really noticable in -15 degree cold starts.

9. USE THE STANDARD DONALDSON AIR FILTER. Some people put aftermarket K&N wash and oil style filters on their Powerstrokes and drive them off road. BAD IDEA. The K&N style filter doesn't filter as well and has resulted in "dusted" engines - dirt gets into the turbo and beyond. Voided warranty. The Donaldson holds upto 3.5 pounds of dirt whiole still maintaining maximum filtration. Donaldson makes air filters for Abrams M1 tanks and their stuff works.

I am very glad I bought a 2005 6.0 and not a 6.4 Flame Thrower. (Yes, I saw an early '08 shoot flames out the exhaust.) I do not like the idea of the 2008 going into an unannounced regen cycle.

 

[69ttop502]

I own a 07 6.0. I spend alot of time on the Dieselstop which is a Ford site and it seems as if there are far fewer problems on the 06 and 07 trucks. All this new emission stuff on the 08's scare me. Let em figure it out a little better first. 08's seem to be a little worse on fuel mileage as well. I love my 07. I am keeping it bone stock and keep it well maintained and I plan to have it for a long time.

 

[cheeks]

From what I hear the later model 6.0s are faring "reasonably well" compared to the 03's and 04's. I'm not sure that's saying much, but some people I know are comfortable with theirs.

The biggest changes on the 6.4 other than the DPF are the new Piezo-electric injectors and twin turbos. Are these new injectors proven? I'm not sure I'd want to be a guinea pig.

In keeping with your original post, I'm not trying to pump Dodge or Chevy. But I will tell you that both the early problems with the 6.0 and the Ford/Navistar lawsuit over warranty claims on the 6.4 are directly responsible for me buying 2005 and 2007 Dodge Rams with the Cummins. I have a 2002 Ford Excursion with a 7.3L Powerstroke and it is hands down the best unit I've ever owned. It's just criminal the way the EPA has emasculated light and medium duty diesel engines.

 

[69ttop502]

I was under the impression that the 6.4 no longer uses the hydraulic activated injectors. I thought it was a common rail set up.

 

[Hammer]

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I was under the impression that the 6.4 no longer uses the hydraulic activated injectors. I thought it was a common rail set up.

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You are correct, the new 6.4 is no longer a HEUI like the 7.3 and 6.0 and is now CRD.

Hammer

 

[Colt45ws]

The 6.0 is the VT365 in Internationals.

 

[STG]

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The 6.0 is the VT365 in Internationals.

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You are correct. I wrote VT275 simply because Ford uses fuel filters that are spec'ed for the VT275 and I buy my fuel filters from International. If you tell the International parts guy you want VT365 fuel filters you will get the wrong ones.

Even though I cited the wrong International engine designation, my point is valid. The VT365 used in Fords puts out more horsepower than a VT365 in any International application. If you tune a Powerstroke for more power, you are modifying and engine that has already been "tuned".

 

[Jim Allen]

STG: I don't disagree with your points, and I don't want to insult you, but you have to admit... the 6.0L is the weakest of the Powerstrokes and they had a very rocky start in Ford trucks. As far as mods go, what you say applies to any diesel but why is it that 6.0Ls are blowing the heads off at 400hp where late generation 7.3Ls can take 550 or so without having to do any internal mods to keep the heads attached? Duramax engines are routinely and reliably making 600+hp without internal mods and so are the Cummins. The problems with the 6.0L engine really "tore the sheets" between Ford and Navistar. Those relationship problems cost me a lot of time and money in my work when a 6.0L project I was working on was cancelled. If you want accuse me of letting those sour grapes taint my attitude towards the 6.0L, in all honesty, I'd have to grant you that. Still, there is also plenty of objective evidence to support my points. Yes, the fixes are pretty much in for the 6.0Ls these days but like many engines that have a rough beginning, it's always going to be saddled with "that" reputation. Anyway, if I had a 6.0L, it'd stay stock.. or I'd have the heads off and put in ARP studs and those trick head gaskets.

Oh, and I was not unhappy to see old HUEY go bye-bye. It was pretty whiz-bang at one time, but common rail is so much more simple, tunable and elegant.

 

[STG]

Jim,

I think the origial question was 2006 or 2008. Based on my personal (and STOCK) experience, I'd take the 2006. I've driven as 2008 King Ranch for about 200 miles and I just can't get comfortable with a brand new engine coupled to brand new emmissions technology.

I can't forget back in the '70s when tough smog regs hit the automobile industry. While GM, Ford and Chrysler were frantically attempting to make catalytic converters work, European manufacturers championed thermal reactors. Great, buy a BMW because it can burn leaded or unleaded. Never mind the thermal reactors that raised underhood temps to pastic and rubber melting points. Remember the Triumph TR8? Its thermal reactors got so hot, the exterior paint on hoods was blistering ontop on all the cooked bits under the bonnet.

I just think of those early thermal reactors when I see anm '08 go through a regen cycle. I would have prefered refilling a uriea tank.

 

[Jim Allen]

STG: We agree on the '08 diesel engines. I think they have a long way to go to get those new diesel sorted out. When I want an afterburner, I'll buy a surplus fighter jet! Not a good time to buy a new diesel!

I remember the '70s oh-to-well! I was a professional wrench, working mostly on imports, in those days.There were some cars you simply COULD NOT get to run well. Or run at all in some cases!

 

[Harley Anderson]

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Even though I cited the wrong International engine designation, my point is valid. The VT365 used in Fords puts out more horsepower than a VT365 in any International application. If you tune a Powerstroke for more power, you are modifying and engine that has already been "tuned".

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Not to be a troll or bash Fords, cause I had a 7.3 PSD, but that is whats so nice about the 5.9 cummins. The motors are detuned to be put into the light duty pickup trucks. Lots of other applications house a 5.9 and have more than the 325 hp that is put into the trucks. Some marine versions of the 5.9 are rated at 425 hp.

 

[BGK]

The current Ford 6.4 diesel is the ONLY Ford diesel worth buying. Ford has had 1 BILLION dollars in warranty work done relating to the previous International sourced diesel and International supposedly has paid very little back to Ford. It is truly a POS they would like to forget about. The only thing that people are scared of regarding the new 6.4 diesel is it is very cramped under the hood.

 

[D-Roc]

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The current Ford 6.4 diesel is the ONLY Ford diesel worth buying. Ford has had 1 BILLION dollars in warranty work done relating to the previous International sourced diesel and International supposedly has paid very little back to Ford. It is truly a POS they would like to forget about. The only thing that people are scared of regarding the new 6.4 diesel is it is very cramped under the hood.

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I saw some pics from a guy at work- they have to remove the cab to do many common engine repairs. Engine seems to be doing well though. I love the truck.

 

[philipsearcy]

Not to be a troll or bash Fords, cause I had a 7.3 PSD, but that is whats so nice about the 5.9 cummins. The motors are detuned to be put into the light duty pickup trucks. Lots of other applications house a 5.9 and have more than the 325 hp that is put into the trucks. Some marine versions of the 5.9 are rated at 425 hp.

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The 5.9 is no longer available in light duty trucks. It is common for all manufacturers to offer high horsepower (low torque) verions in light duty tucks, and high torque (low horsepower)versions in meduim duty trucks. The marine market is a whole different animal. No engine is detuned from a maring curve. They take an automotive curve and turn up the wick. Marine engines have very low usage in hours and are rebuilt more often. Philip.

 

[trik396]

Not bashing Ford either... but I'd be steering clear of a company and it's engine supplier who are trying to sue each other... Just makes good sense. And I believe in keeping things more simple and less complex.

 

[D-Roc]

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Not to be a troll or bash Fords, cause I had a 7.3 PSD, but that is whats so nice about the 5.9 cummins. The motors are detuned to be put into the light duty pickup trucks. Lots of other applications house a 5.9 and have more than the 325 hp that is put into the trucks. Some marine versions of the 5.9 are rated at 425 hp.

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The 5.9 is no longer available in light duty trucks. It is common for all manufacturers to offer high horsepower (low torque) verions in light duty tucks, and high torque (low horsepower)versions in meduim duty trucks. The marine market is a whole different animal. No engine is detuned from a maring curve. They take an automotive curve and turn up the wick. Marine engines have very low usage in hours and are rebuilt more often. Philip.

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So, do marine engines run at max RPMs non stop? Is that why they have a shortened lifespan?

 

[Sushibar]

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So, do marine engines run at max RPMs non stop? Is that why they have a shortened lifespan?

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The answer is yes and no.

Marine propulsion engine will usually have four different ratings A, B, C, D.

One of those ratings would be a continous duty and could be run at full speed all day long ( we have an engine that is rated for continous full load output and is a B series engine in our fishing boat.) Tug boats would be the same.

IE 3508 Caterpillar 34 liters displacement

A continous duty might have an output of 805hp@1300 rpm.
Major overhaul 60,000 hrs(46 gals/hr full out)

A medium duty would be say 1000 hp @ 1600rpm.
Major overhaul 35,000 hrs

A light duty would be 1250 @1800rpm
Major overhaul 20,000 hrs.

The light duty is for boats that average 3000 hrs per year and can only run at full speed for say and hour out of every 6 or something similiar . They are designed to "work" hard, just not at full speed.


The continous duty engines have huge oil sumps, more cooling capacity. Exhuast temps maybe 850 F at full throttle.


At least it gives an idea about the ratings anyways.

sorry about taking over the thread.