First Time Liqui Moly MoS2 Use

[dave5358]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Thanks for the explaination! I'm a moly user and believer, and knew the history etc. I was unaware of the additional perk of being able to extend the OCI by using it. I noticed in certain applications a smoother idle, and reducing smoke in a worn engine. I believe the plating actually can fill small imperfections in the cylinder wall, which is why people make these claims. That could also explain why some people see a mpg improvement. In a new or pristine engine people won't see these benefits because there is nothing to improve upon. However the reduction in wear is always a plus, and will be noted later on. Thanks again for the reply!


As for increasing the OCI, remember that a 5% increase to a consumer is not worth mentioning. A 5% increase to a fleet operator with a zillion vehicles, each of which holds 47 quarts, is a big deal.

There was one other use for moly that I know of, which was suggested in my earlier post. Back in WWII, some fighter planes used moly in the oil. The reason was that if they lost oil pressure (and maybe their oil as well - perhaps because somebody was shooting at them), moly would give the pilot 3-4 minutes to land the plane under power rather than having to land with no power. I suspect a pilot in such a situation would truly think this was 'miracle moly'.

The goofy 'drain the oil and drive' commercials were a spin-off of this unique use of moly (the mad men hucksters didn't think this up on their own).

 

[demarpaint]

^^Good info^^ Thanks!

 

[Injured_Again]

Just wanted to provide one last report, confirming the approximate 3-5% increase in city fuel economy, and 8-10% in steady state freeway cruising. We have some fresh areas of pavement on the freeway and there is literally no tire noise when driving over those sections, and that allows me to really see how smoothly running the engine has become. Oil consumption over the past several hundred miles has been very slight, maybe an eighth of a quart or so.

Our weather has now turned so any fuel economy measurements will be affected by that. But also, a change in future plans means the Miata only has to last two or three more years, rather than six, so I'm going to take full advantage and run it much harder than I have been, and I've already been running it pretty hard. So that will also invalidate any future measurements.

 

[zaibatsu]

Another first time Liqui Moly user here.

As I hadn't seen conclusive data whether it was beneficial / harmful, I thought I'd just add 1/3 of the can (100ml) for now.

To be honest I can't see any real benefit in fuel economy or performance thus far, should I add a little more? My sump holds 5L of oil, currently on fresh change of Mobil1 0w40 + 100ml of LM MOS2.

I think the engine is a little smoother / quieter but since the weather warmed up recently I'm not sure if it's that or the LM.

 

[Finz]

I think you went light on the dose... 50ml per liter is what the can says, no?

 

[dave5358]

Originally Posted By: zaibatsu
Another first time Liqui Moly user here. As I hadn't seen conclusive data whether it was beneficial / harmful, I thought I'd just add 1/3 of the can (100ml) for now. To be honest I can't see any real benefit in fuel economy or performance thus far, should I add a little more? My sump holds 5L of oil, currently on fresh change of Mobil1 0w40 + 100ml of LM MOS2. I think the engine is a little smoother / quieter but since the weather warmed up recently I'm not sure if it's that or the LM.


You can add some more - maybe the whole can. It's not harmful but it may take some time to attach to internal engine parts. In another thread, one user suggested 500 miles of driving. Whether it is more or less miles than this, it is defintely not an instant 'fix'. MoS2 stays in the engine even if you drain the oil, at least for a brief period. On subsequent oil changes, you might decide to only use 'half a can of Liqui Moly, since a part of the first can is still in your engine.

MoS2 really hasn't been tested as a fuel economy booster - at least not that I've seen. Some other user may wish to jump in on this point. Since it does reduce friction, it logically should improve mileage, but the benefit may be small - maybe 1%, which might be hard to measure. But note that an honest 1% improvement in fuel economy will more than pay for the additive if you use your vehicle regularly.

MoS2 does reduce friction and thereby engine heat. It does provide great lubrication at start-up, thereby reducing engine wear. It should increase your oil change interval somewhat, but again this benefit may be minimal (important to a fleet operator, but probably not to a consumer).

Finally, it should reduce oil consumption past the rings. If it saved only 1 quart of oil per oil change interval, that too should help pay for the additive.

 

[wag123]

So, Injured_Again, with MoS2 added you have achieved... a 5% overall fuel mileage improvement (this matches my own personal experience), higher compression in some of the cylinders, lower oil consumption, and a noticeably better/smoother running engine. Excellent bang for the buck! You should be a very happy camper! Based on this, IMHO you should go ahead and use it in your other vehicles. It obviously MORE than pays for itself.

 

[zaibatsu]

Thanks. You say very positive things.
I figured it wouldn't hurt to not dump the lot in and ruin a fresh OCI just in case it wasn't all rainbows, but I'll leave the 100ml in there for a while and see how the feel develops. Hopefully I'll get some cold starts and drives on to see how it compares to before. The car is a high compression NA and runs quite rough when cold as a result.

The oil on the dipstick is now tinged black (car generally keeps oil clear and does not consume any), so there's definitely a decent amount floating around even if it's not the full dose.

I'd like to more happy years with this engine (getting a little old now, but running well) which is why I thought it should have a little extra help while still healthy.

 

[Injured_Again]

Originally Posted By: wag123
So, Injured_Again, with MoS2 added you have achieved... a 5% overall fuel mileage improvement (this matches my own personal experience), higher compression in some of the cylinders, lower oil consumption, and a noticeably better/smoother running engine. Excellent bang for the buck! You should be a very happy camper! Based on this, IMHO you should go ahead and use it in your other vehicles. It obviously MORE than pays for itself.


I think there might have been some subconsciously easy driving on my part that may have boosted my city fuel economy at the start. I'm clearly back to my old driving habits, even driving harder than before as the Miata that I used this in only has to last two or three more years instead of the six that I was trying for before.

In any event, actual fuel economy gains in city driving are steadily in the 3-5% range, while steady state fuel economy gains on the freeway are in the 8-10% range. I think this is the truer test of the efficacy of MoS2 because it is more steady state and not subject to traffic patterns or how bad of a day I had before I got into the car.

I also think this product works best in an older vehicle like my Miata that I purchased with 138k miles and really an unknown use/abuse pattern. There was probably a significant amount of time when the motor ran with dino oil, maybe even all the way until I purchased it, and it definitely say for much of the past year or more before I bought it. So, cold startups were probably very tough on the engine during that time, and the MoS2 may have helped heal some of that damage.

I'm still not sure what benefit it would offer in a car that used a synthetic oil and reasonable OCIs from the start. Our '96 BMW has had Mobil 1 its entire life, and early on when we owned it, I ran several thousand miles on a racetrack doing driving events. It has seen a hard life, but a year or so ago, when it had probably 132k miles, a compression and leakdown test gave numbers that were within spec for a new engine. So, I'm not sure how much more benefit I could get from anti-wear/friction reducing properties of MoS2, and the inline six still exhibits all of the renowned BMW smoothness. This car is now my son's, and his driving patterns and style would be hard to use for any kind of testing, and I hardly drive that car at all any more.

We have two other vehicles, one with 38k and one with 20k miles, both having run Mobil 1 since new and that exhibit no indications of any engine wear.

So, has anyone used MoS2 in a new car with a known good history of maintenance?

 

[wag123]

I have used MoS2 in every vehicle I have purchased since 1987. I don't put it in before they have 12k to 15k miles on them so that they are fully broken-in first, usually at the third oil change.

 

[Injured_Again]

Originally Posted By: wag123
I have used MoS2 in every vehicle I have purchased since 1987. I don't put it in before they have 12k to 15k miles on them so that they are fully broken-in first, usually at the third oil change.


Did you notice any change in the characteristics of the engines after adding the MoS2?

 

[wag123]

Besides the fuel mileage improvements, IMO my engines have run slightly smoother/quieter and it seems like they turn-over easier on cold starts. Not counting the cars that were totaled, I (and my family) have put well over 200k miles on all of them and over 300k on one. I never had a lubrication related engine problem in any of them and none of them were using any significant amount of oil when I got rid of them. I can't realistically say that it was specifically due to using MoS2, but it obviously didn't have any negative affects and definitely didn't hurt anything. If it were a lot more expensive I might reconsider using it, but since it is so cheap (especially at the maintenance dose) I can't see any reason NOT to use it.

 

[Trajan]

Haven't seen any improvement mileage wise in my case.

So far.

Before MoS2 G/100 = 4.76

541 miles into the add G/100 = 4.76

At the moment, 180 miles into tank 3, still 4.76.

 

[Injured_Again]

I'm tempted to try it in our two newer vehicles, to see if there's any benefit on a motor with a known good maintenance history. The two of them, though, aren't good candidates, one because it has become a weekend car and this last year, only accumulated about 3000 miles, and the other because it is my wife's daily driver and her fuel economy varies by a couple of MPG depending on how bad the traffic is, and that depends on what weather conditions are like, and where I live that is never a sure thing.

As far as quietness, my other car is a sports car and engine noise is usually drowned out by exhaust noise, so I'd be really hard pressed to hear a difference. My wife's daily driver is extremely quiet already, and even if noise levels improved by 10-20%, it would be hard to notice.

But I'll give it a try, first in my wife's car and at the next oil change in about another two thousand miles. I'll have her write down the miles driven on each gas receipt until then.

But like Trajan, I think I'm really expecting to not see any fuel economy benefit.

 

[dave5358]

Originally Posted By: wag123
Besides the fuel mileage improvements...


I've used MoS2 in a variety of vehicles for a long time - at least since the early 1970's. I like it. I still use it. But I've never seen significant fuel mileage improvements (e.g. another user mentions 5% improvement).

Since moly added to motor oil reduces friction, it follows that the engine should be more efficient - hence, fuel mileage improvement. But the improvements may be in the order of 1% or .5%. These are significant improvements, but very hard to measure. If I take five highway trips this month versus four trips last month, my mileage will go up, etc. Any fuel improvement is important - even 1% - particularly if it is a real improvement. But I don't recommend MoS2 primarily as a fuel saver.

Originally Posted By: wag123
IMO my engines have run slightly smoother/quieter and it seems like they turn-over easier on cold starts. Not counting the cars that were totaled, I (and my family) have put well over 200k miles on all of them and over 300k on one. I never had a lubrication related engine problem in any of them and none of them were using any significant amount of oil when I got rid of them.


Right on. This is not just your opinion. There is a fair body of information regarding moly's lubricating ability and cold-start lubrication, etc. The stuff goes on lubricating even with no oil present. The same is true for moly's ability to control engine oil usage. It's hard to imagine MoS2 in oil suspension causing any problems. Even rather coarse grades of moly powder are still so fine as to pass through an engine oil filter.

As for fuel usage, the jury may still be out. Perhaps a school bus fleet operator or some other vehicle fleet operator could conduct a test. It would seem to be a fairly inexpensive test - the cost of the additive plus the paperwork - with a potentially big payoff. A 1% fuel use improvement would be tremendous (and it just might be more).

 

[Injured_Again]

I have clearly seen an 8-10% improvement in steady state freeway economy, going from the 31-32 MPG range to the lower 34 MPG range. These trips have been both ways, over similar if not identical roads, and done within a day or two so atmospheric conditions should generally cancel out. Obviously elevation cancels out due these being out and back trips.

My best tank prior to MoS2 was a while ago when still running 185/60-14 tires. When I went to 195/50-15 summer tires, fuel economy went down by about 10% in city driving, and a bit less in straight freeway driving. The very best tank recorded on those 185 tires was in the 33-34 MPG range. Since adding MoS2, I had one recent trip on the 195 tires where I recorded something like 35.3 MPG (the actual figures are in my previous posts in this thread).

I did notice that I required smaller throttle openings to hold speed on the freeways, and it was different enough that I had to alter the position I held my foot to accommodate not having to push down as far.

But again, I think this is because it's an old motor, with probably superficial damage to the internal engine surfaces that the MoS2 was able to plate and provide lubrication. I'm skeptical I'm going to see this in a newer, well-taken care of motor.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Injured_Again


But again, I think this is because it's an old motor, with probably superficial damage to the internal engine surfaces that the MoS2 was able to plate and provide lubrication. I'm skeptical I'm going to see this in a newer, well-taken care of motor.


I found older engines benefit from MOS2 more than a newer engine will. They also benefit more from a UCL than a newer engine will. It makes sense too. Newer engines should have less wear than an older engine, better compression and cylinder walls that are free of imperfections. That's not to say that MoS2 or a UCL won't benefit a new engine, it's just harder to detect improvement when something is running properly with little to no wear.

 

[Injured_Again]

Just wanted to post about an eye opening experience. I was able to drive a similar vintage, two-owner Miata with significantly fewer miles, 84000, that has a documented good/excellent maintenance history, and which is currently running a full synthetic motor oil. This car is one year newer but has the same engine.

I exchanged drives with the other owner and he was incredulous at how smoothly my engine revved, despite just under 150k miles (which I will hit this week). His Miata felt faster, some of which is due to very lightweight wheels, but there was a coarseness that I remember my Miata had, but which is now basically gone. And I think the amount of coarseness I had was greater than in this lower mileage Miata.

The other owner said he had driven many Miatas over the years and had never found one with a motor that revved so smoothly. I told him about the MoS2 and while he's pretty skeptical, I think he might try it when his Miata comes out of storage next spring.

My fuel economy is back down, averaging right around 28 MPG. The weather has gotten colder, and driving through the heavy rains that we have had definitely takes a toll on fuel economy, as does running with those huge pop-up headlights acting like parachutes. I'm also driving much aggressively.

I'm going to do some significant maintenance this coming winter, and I'll get some more compression numbers at that time.

 

[panthermike]

Originally Posted By: Injured_Again
Just wanted to post about an eye opening experience. I was able to drive a similar vintage, two-owner Miata with significantly fewer miles, 84000, that has a documented good/excellent maintenance history, and which is currently running a full synthetic motor oil. This car is one year newer but has the same engine.

I exchanged drives with the other owner and he was incredulous at how smoothly my engine revved, despite just under 150k miles (which I will hit this week). His Miata felt faster, some of which is due to very lightweight wheels, but there was a coarseness that I remember my Miata had, but which is now basically gone. And I think the amount of coarseness I had was greater than in this lower mileage Miata.

The other owner said he had driven many Miatas over the years and had never found one with a motor that revved so smoothly. I told him about the MoS2 and while he's pretty skeptical, I think he might try it when his Miata comes out of storage next spring.

My fuel economy is back down, averaging right around 28 MPG. The weather has gotten colder, and driving through the heavy rains that we have had definitely takes a toll on fuel economy, as does running with those huge pop-up headlights acting like parachutes. I'm also driving much aggressively.

I'm going to do some significant maintenance this coming winter, and I'll get some more compression numbers at that time.


I'm glad it's working for you. It's nice that you were able to compare the same model car against your own. I've found Mos2 to work quite well in spite of some people's claims that it will clog filters(not true).

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: panthermike
Originally Posted By: Injured_Again
Just wanted to post about an eye opening experience. I was able to drive a similar vintage, two-owner Miata with significantly fewer miles, 84000, that has a documented good/excellent maintenance history, and which is currently running a full synthetic motor oil. This car is one year newer but has the same engine.

I exchanged drives with the other owner and he was incredulous at how smoothly my engine revved, despite just under 150k miles (which I will hit this week). His Miata felt faster, some of which is due to very lightweight wheels, but there was a coarseness that I remember my Miata had, but which is now basically gone. And I think the amount of coarseness I had was greater than in this lower mileage Miata.

The other owner said he had driven many Miatas over the years and had never found one with a motor that revved so smoothly. I told him about the MoS2 and while he's pretty skeptical, I think he might try it when his Miata comes out of storage next spring.

My fuel economy is back down, averaging right around 28 MPG. The weather has gotten colder, and driving through the heavy rains that we have had definitely takes a toll on fuel economy, as does running with those huge pop-up headlights acting like parachutes. I'm also driving much aggressively.

I'm going to do some significant maintenance this coming winter, and I'll get some more compression numbers at that time.


I'm glad it's working for you. It's nice that you were able to compare the same model car against your own. I've found Mos2 to work quite well in spite of some people's claims that it will clog filters(not true).


I'm glad its working for him too. As far as the clogged filters go, I haven't personally seen one yet, and I've used quite a bit of MoS2.