Filter Manufacturers Council?

[PE400]

In light of all of these filter failures, is the FMC a body that could be contacted with filter failures?


Filter Manufacturers Council
10 Laboratory Drive
PO Box 13966
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709-3966
this is the response many have mentioned where puralator only wants intact filters.

"According to our quality control department, we received a total of six filters with small slits in their media from customers. Three filters were from the same customer. We could not test non-intact filters using industry standard performance test for flow rate or pressure restriction related to contamination. We did however examined the components for design compliance. There was no assignable cause found for potential tears during normal and recommend operations. We have the highest confidence in our products and continue to owner our published warranty. Purolator manufactures tens of millions of filters each year, and we are proud of the fact that the actual defect rate is extremely low (minute fractions of a percentage point). This is not to imply that we produce product at an absolute zero defect rate (no filter manufacturer can achieve this). However, we are committed to producing product at the highest possible quality standards. We continually strive to improve and we suggest always purchasing new product to take advantage of any improvements. Anytime a customer has concerns about a Purolator filter's performance we are more than happy to test the filter (assuming it is in-tact and free from tampering) and provide a full assessment free of charge. If you ever have a concern, simply contact our tech line at 1-800-526-4250 to start the claim process and request a filter retrieval kit.

We greatly appreciate your past business and hope you will continue to choose Purolator Filters for your filtration needs. If you would like to contact me directly for any reason, please feel free to do so.

Best regards,

James Murray
Associate Catalog Manager
MANN+HUMMEL Purolator Filters LLC
801 Corporate Center Drive, Ste. 128| Raleigh, NC 27607

Phone: +1 919-926-4176
[email protected]
www.mann-hummel.com
"

 

[Brian Barnhart]

You could contact them. But Purolator's (MANN + HUMMEL) membership in the FMC may have an influence on any answer given.

 

[bubbatime]

So send them a potentially defective filter that they will "test". I was born on a day, but it wasn't yesterday. I know EXACTLY what their response will be.

"We have evaluated your filter. It has passed all test and met all design parameters. Further, we dissected the filter afterwards and found the media to be fully intact with no tears. Thank you for your trust in our company and for your further use of our products."

 

[dlundblad]

I'd just let them do whatever. I don't have anything against the company, but I wont be buying Purolator / Mann spin ons for a long time. My only exception would be MC/ Mopar or perhaps the QS filters. Hopefully they don't have a trend in ADBV failures. The Purolator cartridge for my moms 'Yoda 4runner seems very stout, but that's the only one I'd use at this time. The oiled P1 air filters are the cats meow IMO.

A bit OT: The newly installed FL-820s on my dads 2013 Ford ticks on start up horrendously, but my old Jeep doesn't seem to mind the FL-400s one bit. It'll be interesting to see if the ADBV is faulty.

 

[cptbarkey]

there response is appropriate. if you want a warranty on your filter i'll sell you one for $500.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
there response is appropriate. if you want a warranty on your filter i'll sell you one for $500.


We've missed you!!

 

[HerrStig]

Just don't buy them.

 

[OneEyeJack]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Just don't buy them.


It's called voting with your pocketbook.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Just don't buy them.

Now there's an angst free, novel idea!

 

[ARCOgraphite]

If these defects are real (and I suspect some tearing may have be caused by improper disassembly) it would be a major QA/ reliability issue fundamental to design and materials, and therefor likely not a simple production line or incoming material "QC" issue.
Let me retract this a bit - it could relate to the glass, polyester and pulp blend of the media "paper" and its resin treatment.

 

[WobblyElvis]

I sent them two filters with holes in them. They said they could not test them because they had holes in them.....daaaaaaa.

 

[autoapprentice]

Maybe they just don't consider tears to be failures. That may be why they want to test them intact because I guess filters can still operate (to what extent I have no clue) with a torn ADBV and/or media.

 

[Omahaug]

Originally Posted By: TanukTun
Maybe they just don't consider tears to be failures. That may be why they want to test them intact because I guess filters can still operate (to what extent I have no clue) with a torn ADBV and/or media.

If so they would be the only company to say and believe that. In direct contradiction to what they spout off about repeatedly on their website that bypassing oil will destroy your engine.

This e-mail from them is just more [censored]. There's no reasoning with these morons. Not to mention the outright lies in that e-mail. I'd like to see their [censored] data to back that extremely low defect rate given that they're only aware of the defects they're aware of (you know because the ones we cut open don't count and also the ones they see but ignore don't count either).

There's no wrangling with them, sending them [censored] to examine or trying to get them to admit anything. They're never going to do anything due to the potential legal issues. Rather than trying to navigate that quagmire and pull teeth from an alligator there's a better option that's entirely unilateral and under our control, doesn't rely on Purolator doing anything. That option is to never buy any of their products and anything reasonably close to their products, ever again. Also let everyone you know who would buy those products not to. When they lose profit or go out of business then they'll realize that they shouldn't have ignored the problem in the same silence they've given the issue.

 

[crazyoildude]

seriously, is there really a reason why anyone in the know would use tearolater anymore? Use a Wix or even some of the Chinese filters they seem to be much better than purolater, I would use them at my shop but they say in big letters made in China on them.

I did not hear any problems with Wix and they publish their flow rates which is very important.. Fram ultra is another filter that is built very well but they dont publish their flow rates and that is a little unsettling...Im sure it filters well but the flow of the ultra seems to be a well guarded secret.. I asked and got an answer but if they are so good at flowing they should be proud of publishing the flow rates like Wix does..

 

[3311]

Seems like a reasonable response IMO considering it was only one person who sent in six filters.

 

[goodtimes]

An associate catalog manager must be the only one who has time to write answers. He writes: "We have the highest confidence in our products and continue to owner our published warranty." Fail, catalog manager who doesn't know how to spell honor. Maybe they hate to say it since they don't have it. They swept it under the rug.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude

I did not hear any problems with Wix and they publish their flow rates which is very important.


The WIX published "flow rates" have no delta-p info that is the missing piece of the puzzle. Stating flow rate without a delta-p and oil viscosity/temperature is like stating an efficiency without the micron size ... both are basically useless.

 

[KCJeep]

That initial response is part of the reason so many people are hacked at Purolater. A tiny fraction of a single percent defect rate? Complete denial.

The odds against a tiny fraction of failure rate filters falling into the hands of a few BITOG'ers is astronomical to the point of impossible.

Ridiculous "head in the sand" denial with no apparent concern for millions of customers.

 

[cptbarkey]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
That initial response is part of the reason so many people are hacked at Purolater. A tiny fraction of a single percent defect rate? Complete denial.

The odds against a tiny fraction of failure rate filters falling into the hands of a few BITOG'ers is astronomical to the point of impossible.

Ridiculous "head in the sand" denial with no apparent concern for millions of customers.


so prove it with statistics like they already did, your words are just that, words.

 

[Brian Barnhart]

Purolator hasn’t really proven anything. They are simply making a vague statement about their defect level.

Let’s make a few rough assumptions. Purolator states that their defect rate is “minute fractions of a percentage point”. Let’s assume .1%, which is 1/10 of 1%.
Let’s also assume that BITOG members cut open 600 Purolator made filters per year (probably generous). With a defect rate of .1%, BITOG members should expect to see .6 defective filters per year. Based on the data posted here, the field failure rate is well above .1%.

In my own case, I’ve cut open about 6 Purolator made filters within the last year. Two have had media tears or holes. That is a failure rate of about 33%. If I include the Purolators I’ve cut open over the last 3 years, the failure rate is about 15%. Still nowhere near .1%.

I believe there are two issues contributing to the discrepancy between Purolator’s “defect rate” and the “failure rate” documented on BITOG and in my own case.

The biggest issue is that a huge percentage of filters that fail (due to leaky ADBVs, media tears, bypass valve leaks, etc.) are never detected because they are not apparent to the vehicle owner. Secondly, I suspect that of the “tens of millions of filters” Purolator makes each year, very few, probably even less than .1%, are cut open. Given those two conditions, the true product failure rate will never be known.

It’s easy to tout a low rate of defects or failures (speak no evil) if those defects/failures go undetected (see no evil). And if you refuse to include data from filters cut open outside of Purolator Labs, you can omit those failures from the defect rate (hear no evil).

I say the data and numbers point to a problem with Purolator filters. They choose to ignore it and claim otherwise. It must be interesting to produce a product where it almost always goes unnoticed when the product does not perform as intended.