Exit/Post purchase walk through was pathetic

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I have purchased enough new cars now that I don't even bother with the session. I actually don't even bother dealing with typical car sales people.

I find the closest dealer for the car I am interested in and go test drive it. Then I email the closest surrounding 3-4 dealers to see who can get me the best price and buy from them. I do all the paperwork electronically and when It's ready I just go pick it up. Typically in and out in 15 mins.

Not dealing with clueless sales people makes the purchasing experience much more pleasant.

When I purchased my Explorer I did let the internet sales manager give me a quick learning session but it's just because she was cute, I learned nothing
smile.gif
 
I had a 45 minute walk-through when I bought a Lincoln a few years ago. Much of it was the same: set up cell phone, etc. Some was helpful, but it was way too long (the wife and kids were also along -- and getting very impatient). Typically, I prefer to be handed the keys, and drive -- like most all other purchases have been. I guess they probably assume most don't read the manual, and they are probably correct.
 
>>I guess they probably assume most don't read the manual,

They don't care but a lot of bonus money is tied to CSI and your survey. A LOT
At a Nissan Dealer they offered a second free tank of gas to the customer to drop off a blank survey and let the GM fill it out.
No dealer is going to give free gas if he is not getting it back times 10
 
Originally Posted By: Wesbo
Originally Posted By: R80RS
Rare is the commissioned salesman who brings value to the transaction (and I'll concede there are a few good ones out there). Most are simply order takers. I find this almost universally true in my personal and business purchasing across a variety of industries.


Bingo. An hour on the interwebs and you'll know more than any salesman...


It's absolutely pathetic how little a lot of car salesmen know. I helped out a friend and went with her to check out some used cars. There was an Altima at a small family-owned car lot. The guy went on and on about how great the Altima was and that his wife drove it all the time.

I merely asked if it had the inline 4 or the V6. He replied: "I don't know; I think it has the V4 in it." lol. And this dude's dad has sold cars for 50 years. I just don't understand how someone who makes a living in the car business can be so ignorant about cars. They have lots of downtime in between customers; learn your product.

There was a 2001 Cavalier that she liked on the dude's lot. I couldn't remember what year the Ecotec engine premiered in the Cavalier (I knew it was sometime in the early 2000's), so I asked him if it had an Ecotec. I was testing his honesty level. He asked if the Ecotec was good or not. I said yes. He then reassured me it was in fact an Ecotec. I popped the hood and it was the older 8 valve engine. He said "see it's an Ecotec." We got the [censored] out of there.
 
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At one point in my life, I was forced to sell cars. The dealership I worked for did not have the sales people do the post purchase walk through. All that was done by the same people that sold you accessories. They did not want us doing it when we could be back out on the lot taking new turns and making them money. I would however do it if the customer wanted me to do it personally.
 
Originally Posted By: GMFan
My post purchase walk-through on my Mazda was very good actually. The salesman even called me a month after I purchased the car to make sure I was happy with everything. It pays to find a good dealership. These guys were also the only ones willing to hunt down the specific car I wanted and did a dealer transfer. Every other dealership wanted to only sell what they had on the lot.

This one in particular was no nonsense and buying the car was a breeze. I also did the "internet shopping" so the price was negotiated before I walked in the door. From the first contact they got the impression I was no nonsense. I even requested no dealership license plate borders and when I took delivery it was written on my sales receipt comments to put not dealership materials on my car and there was none.

If you are planning to purchase a new car choose a dealership that makes the buying process pleasant and doesn't [censored] you. If you get lied to just walk away. Remember it is a big purchase and it shouldn't be a nightmare to deal with them. Support the good ones.

I can't tell you how many dealerships you walk into have a folding table in the corner, aggressive liars trying to push product on you lying to your face that they have the car you want but, "Oh, I'm sorry...it's actually not the color you want and it's an upgraded model with Automatic instead of Manual. My mistake...I read the inventory list wrong." You feel like you need to take a shower after walking through the front door of these scam places. I can't believe there are people out there who will literally spend thousands of extra dollars on cars they didn't originally want but it's "what they had on the lot."


I have received a few calls from the salesman that sold me the car asking how it was doing. Wasn't pressuring / didn't ask me to come in for a new one or anything remotely sales related.

My parents have been doing business with that salesman since the late 90s.

When I walked in that day and said I wanted a Focus as close to base model as possible with a manual transmission, he wasn't surprised and knew to try to not upsell because I would leave.
 
Originally Posted By: R80RS
Rare is the commissioned salesman who brings value to the transaction (and I'll concede there are a few good ones out there). Most are simply order takers. I find this almost universally true in my personal and business purchasing across a variety of industries.


While I agree with you, I think this is the case simply because that's how we've collectively chosen to make purchases.
Most of us do enough research before making a large purchase that we know exactly what we'll be getting and we can easily access that information online.
It then comes down to price.
Pricing information is very readily available now, in contrast with a couple of decades ago.
I suspect that most of us know exactly what we'll be paying for our new cars before we set foot in a dealership.
New car pricing may not be quite as transparent as airline ticket pricing, but it's still pretty easy to surf your way to the bottom dollar price on a new car.
In a market where nobody can make all that much money on the average customer, nobody has any incentive to develop deep product knowledge.
Most transactions are one-offs and repeat business is rare.
 
I can't really remember the last time that I have ever had a "walk through" on any car that I have bought. Generally orientation on the vehicle consists of walking me over to the car I purchased, having me sit in it, and asking me if I have any questions.
In my experience, rarely have I had a salesperson assist me that has had anymore than rudimentary knowledge about their product. I have found that I (as the customer) have more knowledge about the product than the person selling it. I would like to meet a knowledgeable salesperson sometime, it would be an anomaly for me.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: R80RS
Rare is the commissioned salesman who brings value to the transaction (and I'll concede there are a few good ones out there). Most are simply order takers. I find this almost universally true in my personal and business purchasing across a variety of industries.


While I agree with you, I think this is the case simply because that's how we've collectively chosen to make purchases.
Most of us do enough research before making a large purchase that we know exactly what we'll be getting and we can easily access that information online.
It then comes down to price.
Pricing information is very readily available now, in contrast with a couple of decades ago.

In a market where nobody can make all that much money on the average customer, nobody has any incentive to develop deep product knowledge.
Most transactions are one-offs and repeat business is rare.



>>>In a market where nobody can make all that much money on the average customer,


You might be surprised at what is made on the average customer.

At a smaller Nissan Dealer the net profit on the front end payable was $415,000 a month on 110 cars.
This was on what the salesman got paid on, not including the shop or finance. We averaged another 1600 per car net profit in the finance dept.. More was made billing the sales dept on fix up-tires-brakes at retail.]

Also not included are the new car step up bonus money per car>> >>>Aug 20, 2013 - Stair-step programs give dealers bonuses for reaching factory sales thresholds. Typically, these types of programs — which give dealers bonuses of up to $1,000 per unit on a ... Not all car dealers appreciate the stair-step programs...
With this kind of money at stake car dealers have the process down to a science that suits them and not you. They want that emotional sale where they make all the money. That's why you still hear stories about customers not getting their keys back on the trade. Every customer can mean 3500.

Yes there are some who buy at invoice and have a loan through their own credit union where "nothing is made" (the dealer still get hold back and up to 1500 in bonus money )but they are the rare and almost unwanted business.
 
>>>>You might be surprised at what is made on the average customer.

Penske Automotive Reports Third Quarter And Nine Months Results
Record Third Quarter Income from Continuing Operations
BLOOMFIELD HILLS, Mich. , Oct. 29, 2013

Our business produced another outstanding quarter. We remain confident in our ability to continue growing our business, and we expect both the U.S. and U.K. markets to continue to perform well," said Chairman Roger Penske.


Total Retail Unit Sales increased 13.5% to 97,027
+13.8% in the United States ; +13.0% Internationally
New unit retail sales +13.4%
Used unit retail sales +13.7%
Same-store Retail Revenue increased 12.0%
New +13.8%; Used +11.5%; Finance & Insurance +17.4%; Service and Parts +3.4%
+11.3% in the United States; +13.3% Internationally
Average Transaction Price Per Unit
New $37,299 ; +1.3%
Used $25,242 ; -0.3%


Average Gross Profit Per Unit
New $2,791 , - $58 /unit; Gross Margin 7.5%, -20 basis points

Used $1,870 , $19 /unit; Gross Margin 7.4%, +10 basis points

Finance & Insurance $1,028 , +$49/unit

If you add the new car profit 2791 with the finance profit 1028 you get 3,800 per unit.

My surprise is they show so little on the used cars but I would suspect that is because they hid most of the money in the shop so they don't have to pay the sales dept commission.
 
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Originally Posted By: clarkflower

Yes there are some who buy at invoice and have a loan through their own credit union where "nothing is made" (the dealer still get hold back and up to 1500 in bonus money )but they are the rare and almost unwanted business.



You might find such customers over-represented here. (Or at least that's what folks here will tell you.)

Thus the reason why many find the dealership experience one that leaves them feeling like they need a shower when it's all over.

Where buyers fall on the continuum likely depends on their financial position.

If my major concern is getting financed, I may not be good at math, or may not even care about the price. (I.E. show me the monthly payment and if I can swing it...)

Others may arrive with pre-approved financing from their bank or CU, give the dealer a chance to beat it, have no trade and some Edmunds TMV or other similar information and not need to buy a car today.

I do agree, car dealerships have far more practice at this game than consumers. The best consumers can do is educate themselves and take along a dis-interested 3rd party who is good at math. And if you don't like the deal, don't sign.

When I was in my 20's, I suspect my deals greatly benefited dealerships. Today, approaching 50, the emotional arguments don't sway me as much. I have four cars at home and probably don't need to buy today.

But cut me the right mini deal, in short order and I'll get out of the showroom so you can get about the business of making $4k on the next up.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: clarkflower

Yes there are some who buy at invoice and have a loan through their own credit union where "nothing is made" (the dealer still get hold back and up to 1500 in bonus money )but they are the rare and almost unwanted business.



You might find such customers over-represented here. (Or at least that's what folks here will tell you.)

Thus the reason why many find the dealership experience one that leaves them feeling like they need a shower when it's all over.

Where buyers fall on the continuum likely depends on their financial position.

If my major concern is getting financed, I may not be good at math, or may not even care about the price. (I.E. show me the monthly payment and if I can swing it...)

Others may arrive with pre-approved financing from their bank or CU, give the dealer a chance to beat it, have no trade and some Edmunds TMV or other similar information and not need to buy a car today.

I do agree, car dealerships have far more practice at this game than consumers. The best consumers can do is educate themselves and take along a dis-interested 3rd party who is good at math. And if you don't like the deal, don't sign.

When I was in my 20's, I suspect my deals greatly benefited dealerships. Today, approaching 50, the emotional arguments don't sway me as much. I have four cars at home and probably don't need to buy today.

But cut me the right mini deal, in short order and I'll get out of the showroom so you can get about the business of making $4k on the next up.


I think you are exactly correct.
That $3800 per unit (inc finance) from the annual report from Penske that I posted includes the guys here who "nothing is made on" so some huge money is made on other deals.

The sales meeting are like a sports game. "This is our home court" "control the customer"

As you said: It is the person who is worried about if he can buy (has the credit) that that the huge deals are make on.
Believe it or not can be 10,000+ and it all a taught process.
To pull the credit first before getting them on a car.
Never get (test drive) a low credit customer on more car than they can afford. This is the control. Don't let them lead you to a caddy escalade. Get them in the office and pull credit. Let the desk put them on the car that the most money be made on.
If you drive a low credit customer on a car with leather and a sun roof (like a child) they will never be told later they have to take a car with cloth and no roof. They walk.

The customer who comes in wondering if they can buy get sold a $10,000 (at auction) 65,000 mile Cherokee with leather and a roof for 399 a month. The salesman is told never to quote the price. Always defer on the price till you see they love it after opening the roof, talking about the leather.A long drive building the value.

When you see they love it, and they ask again hit them real high on payment to "wake them up" - "how about 600 a month".
Then pulling in to close you say what if I could work out 399...They jump. They just paid 20,000 for a 10,000 car.

I tell people (who don't know)to never buy the first day.
 
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With a new car, the buyer should know what he wants (or can afford) to spend and should either have cash to buy it with or have pre-arranged the financing.
We financed our last car ('12 Accord) simply because the .9% rate was too good to pass up.
New cars are a fungible good, so whether I bought a '12 Accord LX-P from any given dealer really didn't matter.
It all came down to who would accept the lowest margin.
A used car is an enitrely different kettle of fish.
First, it's not that easy to determine the value of a used car, since there are so many factors that enter into that value.
This makes it much easier to control the customer than is the case with a new car.
Of course, the customer has ultimate control if they have enough presence of mind to realize that they're involved in a business transation, not a presonal relationship and they can always walk.
Second, the person who buys used only because they can't afford to buy new is probably not blessed with a decent income and may well have impaired credit, so they're in a bad bargaining position from the start.
They may also need a car right away just so that they can get to work reliably.
I doubt that any dealer has ever made much on us when we've bought new cars, but judging by the nice stores with many mouths to feed that many dealers have, they must be making a good buck on somebody.
 
Cars are such a commodity these days I don't understand how people get up sold. But than again a lot of people are morons.

All you have to do is go on autotrader, and email 3-4 dealers within a reasonable driving range.

Lastly I like Tesla's business model which dealers are currently fighting with everything they have. Have factory owned dealerships, where all the salespeople are paid factory reps, no commission sales. You than order the exact model you want, and have the factory build and deliver it.

Just like ordering a new Imac!
 
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
C like Tesla's business model which dealers are currently fighting with everything they have. Have factory owned dealerships, where all the salespeople are paid factory reps, no commission sales. You than order the exact model you want, and have the factory build and deliver it.

Just like ordering a new Imac!


Hard to get that done. A year or so ago on the NADA website they had their lobbyists. A very powerful lobby that got them exempt from the new banking laws.

In finance many are never told the best rate offered.

One bank may offer a 3% loan to the dealer) to sell at up to 5% to the customer. Here the most the dealer can make is 2 points.

On the same deal another bank may offer 5% to the dealer to sell at up to 9% so here the dealer can make up to 4 points. This is what they will sell and the first rate will never be told to the customer.
 
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
The Post Purchase walk through for me, is for them to drive it back into the detail shop, and remove the dealer's name everywhere off of the exterior of the vehicle.

No license plate frames, no sticker on the back end, no nothing. My job isn't to advertise for them, and they sure as heck aren't paying me to do it.


^This. And to totally "debadge" the car.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
With a new car, the buyer should know what he wants (or can afford) to spend and should either have cash to buy it with or have pre-arranged the financing.
We financed our last car ('12 Accord) simply because the .9% rate was too good to pass up.
New cars are a fungible good, so whether I bought a '12 Accord LX-P from any given dealer really didn't matter.
It all came down to who would accept the lowest margin.
A used car is an enitrely different kettle of fish.
First, it's not that easy to determine the value of a used car, since there are so many factors that enter into that value.
This makes it much easier to control the customer than is the case with a new car.
Of course, the customer has ultimate control if they have enough presence of mind to realize that they're involved in a business transation, not a presonal relationship and they can always walk.
Second, the person who buys used only because they can't afford to buy new is probably not blessed with a decent income and may well have impaired credit, so they're in a bad bargaining position from the start.
They may also need a car right away just so that they can get to work reliably.
I doubt that any dealer has ever made much on us when we've bought new cars, but judging by the nice stores with many mouths to feed that many dealers have, they must be making a good buck on somebody.


We have a large chain of dealers around here that seems to attempt to negotiate on price. I decided to play their game a few months ago.

They don't make much money on the car, but they make a TON of money on the used cars.

They offered me $7K for my 40,000 mile focus. They had a similar 2011 Focus with 50K miles on it for $12000 on the lot. $5K in margin for them. Sure, in that scenario, there are some overhead costs.

There's not much you can do with a trade in on a relatively low end model Focus. It wasn't worth much new, but at 3 years - you should be able to sell it for what it was new.

What if I came to trade in a 2.5 year old Lexus? They would be able to pull in way more than $5K margin from trade in to sell price.

I've come to realize that the money for these larger car dealers (that can seemingly sell cars less than for others) make money on the used market.

Anything below 50K miles is given a low offer. Anything above 50K miles is given a ridiculously low offer on trade.
 
A lot of misinformation here from people who I assume have never been in the automotive sales business.

I have been working as a sales consultant for a somewhat smaller Chevrolet dealership since the beginning of November. I make about $100-150 on any new car I sell. I make money on new cars through the volume bonuses I receive from General Motors, not from any commission on the sale. Most of the new cars I sell are at invoice or supplier pricing; there is just not any mark-up.

New car prices are pretty similar at any dealership. Please support the dealership that treats you right. If you find that another dealership has a lower price, SHOW THAT to YOUR dealership and give them a chance to match or beat it. If I give you pricing on a new Chevrolet at $500 under invoice and you go out the door and take it to another dealership, all they have to do is reach a little more into the holdback to beat my offer. This doesn't even give me a chance to earn your business!

Yes, the finance office will sometimes tack on extra points to whatever interest rate the banks are offering so that they can make a little extra money. Why does this matter if they can still get you a rate lower than what your credit union is offering? You are still saving money over any deal you would have gotten on your own! And in my experience, the dealership is usually able to beat any pre-approvals.

We are not all sleazebags. I follow-up with ALL of my customers (new and used) after the sale to make sure everything is going well. In my less than 3 months of working at this dealership, I have helped to resolve countless issues and questions. I will even go so far as to pick up vehicles from a customer's home and drive them back to the dealership myself. My customers know that I am there to help and they don't hesitate to call or email me if they need assistance. I like to think that my service and help is worth a $100 flat for each car I sell.
 
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