Originally Posted By: BigJohn
addyguy said:
Engine Failure - Toyota 4Runner V6 - Warranty
- Thread starter BigJohn
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Right. That's how we do biddness down here in the Sunny South. Dealer Goodwill can help you on a close call. That's why I get all my work done by my dealer.....well almost all. I replace my own spark plugs so I can properly anti sieze,dialectically grease,and torque the plugs with my SK torque wrench.
I keep very detailed maintainence and repair logs for all of my vehicles and keep all receipts for parts I buy, but for some reason, I never keep receipts for the oil and filters I buy. I guess that will change if I ever buy a new vehicle again. All of my current vehicles are out of warrenty.
Wayne
Wayne
Exactly. You will win even if they deny it. It's just a process and depends on how far they want to push it. I doubt they do at all and you will get the engine without issue once you show your receipts.
Originally Posted By: river_rat
They still have to prove it threw a rod from a lube failure, and they can't. The burden is on them.
The Magnuson-Moss act which is basically what you are talking about with your proof and burden on them comments ONLY applies and protects consumers when they do things properly. If the maintenance requirements are a 5W-30 meeting the mfg's spec XXX, API S# certified, and changed by XXX that is what the owner must do. They don't have to use the mfg's brand parts but they DO have to follow that maintenance schedule and use the correct fluids and parts( i.e. filter - correct by application - no oversized ). If the car owner ventures off to use whatever they feel is better and do their maintenance when they feel like it( over the mfg's intervals - under is ok )they are basically voiding out any MMA rights they have.
In the OP's case they burden would shift off of Toyota if the owner couldn't show proper maintenance was done. Now we know he can show it but if he couldn't it gives Toyota a lot of leeway to get out of repairs. Sort of like the post recently about the guy with the new Nissan who hadn't checked or changed his oil with 13K on it. If his car threw a rod he would be in deep even if it wasn't because of the poor maintenance.
They are not asking for proof of maintenance from the OP of this thread for nothing. If he was unable to prove those 7 OC's as requested he woould be in for a real hard time. He can so he is way ahead of the game now.
They still have to prove it threw a rod from a lube failure, and they can't. The burden is on them.
The Magnuson-Moss act which is basically what you are talking about with your proof and burden on them comments ONLY applies and protects consumers when they do things properly. If the maintenance requirements are a 5W-30 meeting the mfg's spec XXX, API S# certified, and changed by XXX that is what the owner must do. They don't have to use the mfg's brand parts but they DO have to follow that maintenance schedule and use the correct fluids and parts( i.e. filter - correct by application - no oversized ). If the car owner ventures off to use whatever they feel is better and do their maintenance when they feel like it( over the mfg's intervals - under is ok )they are basically voiding out any MMA rights they have.
In the OP's case they burden would shift off of Toyota if the owner couldn't show proper maintenance was done. Now we know he can show it but if he couldn't it gives Toyota a lot of leeway to get out of repairs. Sort of like the post recently about the guy with the new Nissan who hadn't checked or changed his oil with 13K on it. If his car threw a rod he would be in deep even if it wasn't because of the poor maintenance.
They are not asking for proof of maintenance from the OP of this thread for nothing. If he was unable to prove those 7 OC's as requested he woould be in for a real hard time. He can so he is way ahead of the game now.
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Originally Posted By: Jeepster_nut
Problem with most receipts these days is that they are printed on that thermal paper, and after a year or so the receipt starts to disappear! I hate that...
Yep, I Always Scan the receipt as soon as I get home, takes all of 2min, Put it into my Word Document with all my other receipts.
I always buy my oil most of the time within week or two of my oil change. If They are running a deal on Castrol stuff a few weeks early and I know I wont make it ill buy it the day before the deal is over.
Then when I am done with changing my oil, I go into that word document and put the Current Millage and date right above the photo.
I then Email the Word Document to my Gmail and put it into a folder and save it on my Portable Hard Drive, and then my Flash Drive.
So I got a Backup and then a backup and then more
Problem with most receipts these days is that they are printed on that thermal paper, and after a year or so the receipt starts to disappear! I hate that...
Yep, I Always Scan the receipt as soon as I get home, takes all of 2min, Put it into my Word Document with all my other receipts.
I always buy my oil most of the time within week or two of my oil change. If They are running a deal on Castrol stuff a few weeks early and I know I wont make it ill buy it the day before the deal is over.
Then when I am done with changing my oil, I go into that word document and put the Current Millage and date right above the photo.
I then Email the Word Document to my Gmail and put it into a folder and save it on my Portable Hard Drive, and then my Flash Drive.
So I got a Backup and then a backup and then more
Man this sucks. I take it its still not over. Doing what your supposed to do back fires. I'll be curious to see the out come.
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
Man this sucks. I take it its still not over. Doing what your supposed to do back fires. I'll be curious to see the out come.
Incorrect. Doing what your supposed to do has not backfired for him. His ONLY concern was that he bought oil in bulk.
This is towards the other 75% of posts in here that came up with crazy stories. I think we all agree that dealerships are not angels when it comes to auto repair BUT in cases of warranty work they have no qualms imo. The service department is not going to work against you to get work done because at the end of the day they are going to get paid. They dont care about receipts but the manufacturer does.
Man this sucks. I take it its still not over. Doing what your supposed to do back fires. I'll be curious to see the out come.
Incorrect. Doing what your supposed to do has not backfired for him. His ONLY concern was that he bought oil in bulk.
This is towards the other 75% of posts in here that came up with crazy stories. I think we all agree that dealerships are not angels when it comes to auto repair BUT in cases of warranty work they have no qualms imo. The service department is not going to work against you to get work done because at the end of the day they are going to get paid. They dont care about receipts but the manufacturer does.
Originally Posted By: infecto
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
Man this sucks. I take it its still not over. Doing what your supposed to do back fires. I'll be curious to see the out come.
Incorrect. Doing what your supposed to do has not backfired for him. His ONLY concern was that he bought oil in bulk.
Exactly. The OP has had nothing backfire on him for doing what he is supposed to do at this point. It is to the contrary actually. He has done his maintenance on time and with the proper parts and fluids. He also kept his receipts. He can now provide the 7 OC's worth of info that ahs been requested of him.
He would only be in trouble if he had not done things properly or not kept records and receipts. As infecto said the only issue for the OP that is conerning him is buying in bulk with 1 receipt for multiple OC's vs individual receipts for each OC. In the end the OP will be ok.
People have read way more into what was asked of the OP by the dealer than there is to it IMO. The dealer and even Toyota( if they actually requested the info )have done nothing unreasonable. They are looking at a major engine failure with no dealer records of maintenance being done. Absolutely resonable fo them to requst proof it was done, and done correctly, before proceeding with a very expensive warranty repair.
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
Man this sucks. I take it its still not over. Doing what your supposed to do back fires. I'll be curious to see the out come.
Incorrect. Doing what your supposed to do has not backfired for him. His ONLY concern was that he bought oil in bulk.
Exactly. The OP has had nothing backfire on him for doing what he is supposed to do at this point. It is to the contrary actually. He has done his maintenance on time and with the proper parts and fluids. He also kept his receipts. He can now provide the 7 OC's worth of info that ahs been requested of him.
He would only be in trouble if he had not done things properly or not kept records and receipts. As infecto said the only issue for the OP that is conerning him is buying in bulk with 1 receipt for multiple OC's vs individual receipts for each OC. In the end the OP will be ok.
People have read way more into what was asked of the OP by the dealer than there is to it IMO. The dealer and even Toyota( if they actually requested the info )have done nothing unreasonable. They are looking at a major engine failure with no dealer records of maintenance being done. Absolutely resonable fo them to requst proof it was done, and done correctly, before proceeding with a very expensive warranty repair.
Originally Posted By: tsduke
I'm sure the dealership is just covering the bases, but doesn't the oil need to be proved as the cause of failure before record of oil changes are even technically necessary?
I'm making hypothetical remarks here. Why should the mfg prove the oil failed if the owner has no records of changing oil? Everything could stop at that point. Their position is to first establish the engine was serviced as laid out in the OM, then they'll take the next step in the warranty process. They could try and prove the oil failed if the maint schedule was followed, because if the oil failed then the blame would be shifted from the mfg to the oil company. In the hypothetical example I'm making here, the dealer wants to be certain they are going to get paid for repairs before they start ripping into an engine. So odds are the vehicle is going to sit until they get a green light they are going to get paid.
Odds of a mfg spec'd oil failing are pretty slim. The mfg might also check to see that the filter didn't fail and cause a problem, it depends, anything is possible. In the case of the OP as long as he can provide proof of OCI the repairs should be covered.
I'm sure the dealership is just covering the bases, but doesn't the oil need to be proved as the cause of failure before record of oil changes are even technically necessary?
I'm making hypothetical remarks here. Why should the mfg prove the oil failed if the owner has no records of changing oil? Everything could stop at that point. Their position is to first establish the engine was serviced as laid out in the OM, then they'll take the next step in the warranty process. They could try and prove the oil failed if the maint schedule was followed, because if the oil failed then the blame would be shifted from the mfg to the oil company. In the hypothetical example I'm making here, the dealer wants to be certain they are going to get paid for repairs before they start ripping into an engine. So odds are the vehicle is going to sit until they get a green light they are going to get paid.
Odds of a mfg spec'd oil failing are pretty slim. The mfg might also check to see that the filter didn't fail and cause a problem, it depends, anything is possible. In the case of the OP as long as he can provide proof of OCI the repairs should be covered.
Dermapaint is 100% correct. If the owner can not show proper maintenance was done and the oil changed properly they have an out. Improper maintenance is a very easy way out for the car mfg. He can show he did it all correctly however( he says )so it won't be an issue.
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Originally Posted By: BigJohn
Two days ago, my son was driving our 2007 Toyota 4Runner. After leaving a stop light, he heard some ticking and then a loud pop. He pulled over immediately, with a stream of oil running out of the crank case.
I pulled him to the dealership and they investigated.
The Service Tech called this morning and said there is a hole in the crank case. He said that he needed the last 7 oil change receipts and they would submit to Toyota for complete warranty replacement.
Here's the problem......
This is how I purchase oil and filters.
I have these receipts....plus the last one where I purchased six jugs of Motor Craft from WalMart a couple of years ago.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should handle the dealer and does anyone have a link to that piece of legislation where it backs up the vehicle owner, to do their own oil changes and that the burden of proof is on the manufacture.....to prove oil related failure, rather than something faulty in the engine.
You are protected by law. The Magnuson-Moss act of 1975, prtoects you from just this sort of thing. Please send me a private message for more information.
Two days ago, my son was driving our 2007 Toyota 4Runner. After leaving a stop light, he heard some ticking and then a loud pop. He pulled over immediately, with a stream of oil running out of the crank case.
I pulled him to the dealership and they investigated.
The Service Tech called this morning and said there is a hole in the crank case. He said that he needed the last 7 oil change receipts and they would submit to Toyota for complete warranty replacement.
Here's the problem......
This is how I purchase oil and filters.
I have these receipts....plus the last one where I purchased six jugs of Motor Craft from WalMart a couple of years ago.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should handle the dealer and does anyone have a link to that piece of legislation where it backs up the vehicle owner, to do their own oil changes and that the burden of proof is on the manufacture.....to prove oil related failure, rather than something faulty in the engine.
You are protected by law. The Magnuson-Moss act of 1975, prtoects you from just this sort of thing. Please send me a private message for more information.
We all know about the Magnuson-Moss act and what it does and does not cover. No need for most people here to PM anyone about it. If you want to contribute do so here in the forum and post your view on it. It does not allow consumers to do whatever they wish however and that is what those of us talking about the "what ifs" are focusing on. The ways he might have been in trouble if he hadn't done things correctly as he did.
The MMA has limits as to what it does and does not do for the consumer. It is not carte` blanche for consumers to do anything they wish. A lot of us talking about this, including myself, actually worked dealer service and have dealt with warranty and know the situation.
Really there is no need to even bring the MMA up. The OP has done everything properly and has his receipts. A lot of this is just people over reacting and hypothetical conversations anyway.
Welcome to the forum.
The MMA has limits as to what it does and does not do for the consumer. It is not carte` blanche for consumers to do anything they wish. A lot of us talking about this, including myself, actually worked dealer service and have dealt with warranty and know the situation.
Really there is no need to even bring the MMA up. The OP has done everything properly and has his receipts. A lot of this is just people over reacting and hypothetical conversations anyway.
Welcome to the forum.
I ask for a private message because I was banned from an automotive blog for "spaming" as they called it. Are we allowed to post links in replies?
As long as it's not a link selling something. I see from your profile that you are an Amsoil dealer. We have three sponsoring Amsoil dealers on here now, so you would not be able to post a link to your website, per the rules.
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May I post my Email addresses on my signature line?
I passed this on to the moderators. One of them will either let you know or reply here.
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