Eneos Sustina 0W20 6,646 8,917 13 FRS

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: Tonystewart
Originally Posted By: webfors
Oh, and nice report. For an engine still breaking in I like.

Viscosity is a little low. What's the virgin viscosity on that oil?


55
8.6


The shearing is a concern then. I would look for something a little thicker to keep up with your after-market tricks

 

[CATERHAM]

The KV100 viscosity loss was 12% including a bit of fuel dilution which isn't much.
What's more important is the fact that ultra high VI Sustina 0W-20 is a very light oil, the lightest API oil you can buy.
The engine is spec'd for a light ultra high VI oil (TGMO) so the OP is not using an oil that is too light.

Is see he has installed a oil/coolant heat exchanger (cooler) so there shouldn't be an issue will high oil temp's. None of the modes to the engine are internal so I doubt the stock HP will be increased that much over the spec' 200.
My recommendation would be to stick to a high VI oil like Sustina or TGMO as that oil should still provide plenty of viscosity reserve.

One mod' I didn't see was the installation of oil pressure and oil temp' gauges which I'd recommend. It's always good to know for sure if you're not getting oil starvation during high G cornering and even braking. And since an OP gauge is also a viscometer you'll know what your operational viscosity is at all times and therefore the viscosity difference if you try different oil brands.

If the OP is planning on trying Millers CTS 0W-20, due to it's lower 163 VI and possibly higher HTHSV is will be much heavier than TGMO and Sustina.

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
The KV100 viscosity loss was 12% including a bit of fuel dilution which isn't much.
What's more important is the fact that ultra high VI Sustina 0W-20 is a very light oil, the lightest API oil you can buy.
The engine is spec'd for a light ultra high VI oil (TGMO) so the OP is not using an oil that is too light.

Is see he has installed a oil/coolant heat exchanger (cooler) so there shouldn't be an issue will high oil temp's. None of the modes to the engine are internal so I doubt the stock HP will be increased that much over the spec' 200.
My recommendation would be to stick to a high VI oil like Sustina or TGMO as that oil should still provide plenty of viscosity reserve.

One mod' I didn't see was the installation of oil pressure and oil temp' gauges which I'd recommend. It's always good to know for sure if you're not getting oil starvation during high G cornering and even braking. And since an OP gauge is also a viscometer you'll know what your operational viscosity is at all times and therefore the viscosity difference if you try different oil brands.

If the OP is planning on trying Millers CTS 0W-20, due to it's lower 163 VI and possibly higher HTHSV is will be much heavier than TGMO and Sustina.






Can you explain the 12% loss? I see a drop from 8.6 to 6.7. Been here a while, but I'm a newb at this.

 

[gpshumway]

6.7 cSt is pretty thin. Considering you're modded and the manual recommends thicker oil for heavy use and high temperatures, I think something thicker is a good idea.

What's the HTHS of Miller's Nanodrive?

Between this UOA and the other UOA and VOAs of Sustina, I think we can safely conclude it's not a very good value.

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: Tonystewart
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Its tough to gauge wear in such a new engine but this oil looks good and appeared to hold up just fine. I would go with M1 0w20 because it is more proven and a little cheaper but looks like this stuff can do 8k OCI's.


Amazing how many people from the Subaru forums told me to stay away from Mobil 1

Yeah, because of knucklehead WRX owners that modify their cars WELL beyond stock and/or have a poor tune, don't check their oil regularly, and continue to use Resource Conserving 5W-30. I've seen 400 whp STI owners running 5W-30 and wonder why they have a bearing failure.

And you can usually spot a protune vs an e-tune in a WRX uoa. Protuned WRX's actually even show good results on 5W-30.

Mobil1 0W-20 (or maybe 0W-30 considering your mods) would probably work very well for your application. Mobil1 0W-40 or TDT 5W-40 are great choices for the aforementioned knuckleheads if a thicker viscosity oil is needed for the particular application.

-Dennis

 

[Tonystewart]

Thanks for all the great advice, I'll investigate further.

The oil cooler was just installed, this UOA sample is without an oil cooler.
Oil temps haven't exceeded 224 since oil cooler install, typically 212 to 220.

 

[Tonystewart]

Similar equipped Toyota 86 oil temp data with 5w30 has shown higher oil temperatures than 0w20 in the few cars I communicate with. This was in autox use and one car at Road Atlanta Track day

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
The KV100 viscosity loss was 12% including a bit of fuel dilution which isn't much.
What's more important is the fact that ultra high VI Sustina 0W-20 is a very light oil, the lightest API oil you can buy.
The engine is spec'd for a light ultra high VI oil (TGMO) so the OP is not using an oil that is too light.

Is see he has installed a oil/coolant heat exchanger (cooler) so there shouldn't be an issue will high oil temp's. None of the modes to the engine are internal so I doubt the stock HP will be increased that much over the spec' 200.
My recommendation would be to stick to a high VI oil like Sustina or TGMO as that oil should still provide plenty of viscosity reserve.

One mod' I didn't see was the installation of oil pressure and oil temp' gauges which I'd recommend. It's always good to know for sure if you're not getting oil starvation during high G cornering and even braking. And since an OP gauge is also a viscometer you'll know what your operational viscosity is at all times and therefore the viscosity difference if you try different oil brands.

If the OP is planning on trying Millers CTS 0W-20, due to it's lower 163 VI and possibly higher HTHSV is will be much heavier than TGMO and Sustina.






Can you explain the 12% loss? I see a drop from 8.6 to 6.7. Been here a while, but I'm a newb at this.

Where did you get the KV100 spec' of 8.6cSt from because the oil has a VOA KV100 of 7.6cSt which I posted earlier in this thread.

 

[webfors]

Tonystewart

 

[webfors]

Tonystewart, he posted the 8.6 value earlier in this thread.

 

[Tonystewart]

The number I received from my supplier

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: Tonystewart
The number I received from my supplier

You can also ask Eneos USA directly. If it doesn't match the viscosity in the voa posted above, it wouldn't be the first time that Eneos suppled data as been different from voa results posted here.

-Dennis

 

[CATERHAM]

The KV100 of 8.6cSt is likely for the latest version of the ENEOS 0W-20.
The PDS spec's for Sustina 0W-20 are:
KV100 7.94cSt
KV40 32.69cSt
VI 229
NOACK 13%
CCS @-35C 3,550cP
MRV @ -40 9,630cP

 

[gpshumway]

Originally Posted By: Tonystewart
Thanks for all the great advice, I'll investigate further.

The oil cooler was just installed, this UOA sample is without an oil cooler.
Oil temps haven't exceeded 224 since oil cooler install, typically 212 to 220.

Originally Posted By: Tonystewart
Similar equipped Toyota 86 oil temp data with 5w30 has shown higher oil temperatures than 0w20 in the few cars I communicate with. This was in autox use and one car at Road Atlanta Track day


Wait. How is this car used? Auto-X and track use or was that the other cars you communicate with? The oil temps you quote sound like the oil cooler is doing it's job well and will allow you to get away with a slightly thinner oil than without the cooler. Especially if it's maintaining those temps at the track. Do you notice the oil being any slower to heat up? I presume you're using the OEM ECU oil temp probe.

You seem to have a thing for esoteric oils with Sustina and now Nanodrive, though I'm not sure they have any benefit over cheaper, more available oils in this engine.

Dennis' M1 AFE recommendation is a good one, but AFE 0w20 has not been particularly shear stable in my Honda. I might give Pennzoil Platinum a shot in the 0w20 weight. It's very low NOACK indicates it might be closer to Ultra than the rest of the Platinum range, hopefully highly shear stable just like Ultra.

 

[Tonystewart]

This car is a DD, so far, the cars I received oil data from have seen track time. Yes data from ECU, using Ecutek. The engine doesn't detune anymore since the addition of the oil cooler. Watching an ECU cut power due to high oil temp on FA20 is a reality

If the data is accurate then "esoteric" will be the norm.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Tonystewart
The engine doesn't detune anymore since the addition of the oil cooler. Watching an ECU cut power due to high oil temp on FA20 is a reality

That's why it's unnecessary and actually counterproductive to run any oil heavier than what is spec'd for the car.
The car is spec'd for the ultra high VI TGMO 0W-20 and Sustina in just a more advanced version of that oil.
IMO Sustina 0W-20 is the optimum oil choice for the FRS and the Subie BRZ.

I understand the interest in the nano technology incorporated in the Millers CFS 0W-20 NT but IMO it's not as advanced an oil as Sustina 0W-20 which is Nippon Oil's flagship product.
Also it's 35% heavier at room temperature and a full 50% heavier at 32F which simply translates into unnecessarily higher oil drag (i.e., power loss) at all all temp's with no increase in engine protection.

But do try the Millers oil and let us know if you notice any decrease in engine performance (sluggishness) particularly when the engine is cold.

 

[Tonystewart]

Tada San said the Eneos Sustina was the right oil for this engine, I still have 2 cases of Eneos Sustina, but I'm curious how Millers got 6hp additional on the dyno over the factory oil, how?

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: Tonystewart
... I'm curious how Millers got 6hp additional on the dyno over the factory oil, how?

I would guess it's due to the reduced friction in the piston/ring/cylinder. Some valve-trains can be power-hungry but I doubt that's the case here.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Tonystewart
I'm curious how Millers got 6hp additional on the dyno over the factory oil, how?

What engine was that?
What FF oil?

 

[CATERHAM]

I see it was Millers own test below:
http://www.millersoils.co.uk/news/2012/281112-Toyota-GT86-Power-Test.asp

I've seen a lot of these kinds of comparisons over the years and very few are truly scientific.
What was the barometric pressure, RH, and air temp's under both tests?
We don't know exactly what the FF was. Why didn't they drain the FF and refill with fresh TGMO 0W-20 and test that oil?
What were the exact oil and coolant temp's under both tests?

IMO the claimed 3.8% peak HP difference is not statistically significant, There are too many unqualified variables and it could easily have gone the other way.

I've had a professional mechanic racing buddy of mine who had regular access to a dino that he tried various modification on and it used to drive him crazy not being able to reproduce exactly the same results day in day out.