Electric Impacts

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JHZR2

JHZR2

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I have a milwaukee corded and an OR cordless impact. When a lug bolt is just on to spec, they work great and especially the IR makes short work of it.

However, when it is seized on tight (enough that I need to have a 2ft length of pipe on the end of a 2ft breaker bar), I can knock at it for 15 seconds and not have it budge. Is this normal? Will an air impact take off a seized lug bolt first shot? How long do you usually hammer on it?

I think Im going to put a bit of anti-seize around the collar of the lug bolts to prevent this from happening (steel bolts with Al wheels is part of the issue). Thoughts?
 
Normal. My Northern Tool cordless impact sometimes takes a long time to get stuff off. Using the socket directly on the fastener without using extensions helps greatly.
 
Yep, that's the standard. They're nice for making quick work of a simple job. Removing those stubborn fasteners? If it isn't pneumatic, you're "like the operation of a wine cork removal tool"... LOL.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2


However, when it is seized on tight (enough that I need to have a 2ft length of pipe on the end of a 2ft breaker bar), I can knock at it for 15 seconds and not have it budge. Is this normal? Will an air impact take off a seized lug bolt first shot? How long do you usually hammer on it?

My IR 1/2 air impacts wont immediatly take those off either. I bet that they will either take them off or break the studs in 10 seconds or so.
 
Depends what you mean by "siezed on tight"...siezed?...well, even the IR 1/2" pneumatic will struggle with that...

Overtorqued by the kid at the shop?

The pneumatic takes about 1/2 a second longer than usual to spin it off...that's why I bought the thing in the first place!

I have no experience with an electric, so I couldn't compare...but my Volvo calls for 100 lbft of torque, and I tighten with a torque wrench so I don't over or under-torque them...

Cracking a $400 alloy wheel worries me...so does a lug coming loose...

I love the pneumatic and highly recommend one. Surprisingly, the compressor requirement for one is not high, above a nail gun but way less than a die grinder.

And use a torque wrench on the lugs for final torque...this is BITOG, after all...
 
I always use a torque wrench to spec. Twice.

Issue is this, changed my summer wheels back on my 91 BMW this spring. Last night I went to put the winter tires back on. Most of the lug bolts came right off, no issues. very easy. A few though were seized on (dissimilar metals?) requiring a lot of force.

Thus my comment about a little anti seize on the collar of the nut, where it meets the wheel and IMO the corrosion occurs.

I dont think it is a matter of sloppy work, Im creful and do it right, it is a matter of corrosion of dissimilar metals causing a tightness that needs to be broken, and which the impact cant do as handily as a 3-4ft cheater.
 
You can find few references on the internet where an electrical (corded) impact wrench was able to take off the proverbial Honda crank pulley bolt. It took 3 minute and 36 seconds of continuous pounding but it came off.

I have similar experience with a tiny cordless impact wrench. If you have the patience and hold the trigger, it will work. Obviously, cordless runs out of oomph quickly but a corded one can go on for a long time.

- Vikas
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I have a milwaukee corded and an OR cordless impact. When a lug bolt is just on to spec, they work great and especially the IR makes short work of it.

However, when it is seized on tight (enough that I need to have a 2ft length of pipe on the end of a 2ft breaker bar), I can knock at it for 15 seconds and not have it budge. Is this normal? Will an air impact take off a seized lug bolt first shot? How long do you usually hammer on it?

I think Im going to put a bit of anti-seize around the collar of the lug bolts to prevent this from happening (steel bolts with Al wheels is part of the issue). Thoughts?


I have a cheap corded impact wrench that takes it's sweet time loosening tight fasteners. I chalk it's anemic power up to the fact that I only paid $39.00 for it and I use a 100' cheap extension cord for it as well (probably only has 60 volts on it during operation). If it doesn't loosen the lug in 3 seconds, I use my Johnson bar to break it free and then finish with the impact wrench.
I always apply NevR seize on lug threads, hubs and backing surfaces; then hand torque ... next time it zips right off for me with the impact gun.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I think Im going to put a bit of anti-seize around the collar of the lug bolts to prevent this from happening (steel bolts with Al wheels is part of the issue). Thoughts?

Don't do this. This has the largest affect on torque. Our company - together with a fastener supplier - ran controlled studies with neversieze on wheel bolt assemblies and found that neverseize on the collar is the most effective way to reduce torque... to the point that you can crack the wheel bolt using the specified torque.

You shouldn't need to put antisieze on the collar. A little bit on the threads is okay.
 
I've been happy with my Craftsman C3 1/2" drive cordless impact wrench with the 19.2V Li-Ion battery. Worked good for quickly removing lug nuts torqued to 80 lb-ft. I need to try it on my Mustang's lug nuts, which are torqued to 100 lb-ft.
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I think Im going to put a bit of anti-seize around the collar of the lug bolts to prevent this from happening (steel bolts with Al wheels is part of the issue). Thoughts?

Don't do this. This has the largest affect on torque. Our company - together with a fastener supplier - ran controlled studies with neversieze on wheel bolt assemblies and found that neverseize on the collar is the most effective way to reduce torque... to the point that you can crack the wheel bolt using the specified torque.

You shouldn't need to put antisieze on the collar. A little bit on the threads is okay.

Thanks for explaining this. I too have heard that you should avoid getting anti-seize on the lug nut collars, but never knew why ... until now.
 
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I wholeheartedly recommend putting anti-seize on the wheel/hub mating surfaces and a very light dab on the threads & collars... and reducing the torque appropriately - 30% less is about right for nickel/graphite anti-seize. I could go through the appropriate calculations one of these days if folks are interested.

Why? Because if you've ever driven in an area with salt or let anyone else tighten your lugs ever, and you get a flat, you need to be able to remove the lug bolts and the wheel with the wimpy tool what came with the car. Or your son/daughter/wife to be able to do so.

FWIW, my HF electric (corded) impact hasn't ever met a bolt it couldn't undo, but I've never asked it to do anything crazy tight. I didn't have a big air compressor at the time, but I've got one now so will be acquiring a proper pneumatic impact gun soon.
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I think Im going to put a bit of anti-seize around the collar of the lug bolts to prevent this from happening (steel bolts with Al wheels is part of the issue). Thoughts?

Don't do this. This has the largest affect on torque. Our company - together with a fastener supplier - ran controlled studies with neversieze on wheel bolt assemblies and found that neverseize on the collar is the most effective way to reduce torque... to the point that you can crack the wheel bolt using the specified torque.

You shouldn't need to put antisieze on the collar. A little bit on the threads is okay.



UUUGGGGH. Then what is the best solution? This dissimilar metals bit is an issue after only a half a year... Very annoying.

Is there some other coating (a drying chemical perhaps) that would help and not cause a torquing issue?
 
With proper technique, ie put the socket right onto the fastener and no extensions, my cheap-o Northern Tool "24v" cordless impact will remove lugs torqued to 100 ft/lbs after a few seconds. Keeping the batteries freshly charged helps greatly.

I've frankly been impressed with it for the price I paid, and the amount of time it's saved me since getting it this summer.
 
If you must add neverseize to the collar, the only method I can think of is to first install the lugbolt to proper torque, mark its position, then reinstall to the same position with neverseize.
 
I love electric impacts. Have not met a job my bigger one could not do. The small one is just for lighter duty. My larger gun (8.5A) was integral in swapping the subframe on my SW2 when I bought it. It removed all 4 subframe bolts with ease including the one that had the most impact done to it (bent subframe)

I honestly will not go back to air impact after using electric and having a light and heavy duty version.
 
Well, this one comes back to life after two events... In the late fall, I hit something in the road that bounced into my lane - of course it was a piece of metal, and of course it punctured my tire.

I stood and bounced on the OE lug wrench and it would NOT come off.

After that I went and retorqued ALL my lug bolts on the car (91 BMW 318i), and I had to use a 24" breaker bar, with 24" of pipe hanging off its end, and me standing on it, caused it eventually to go.

Recently I swapped the tires from my summer tires to my snows. A little late, but life has been hectic. Just a few months, and the lugs were completely seized again. Again, I had to stand on them, and again, my IR electric couldnt get them off.

The IR does well on everything else, but when there is seizure, it doesnt work.

So, need to hit the drawing board again... Lugs are clean, look corrosion free, screw in and out very smoothly.

Shall I buy an IR 1/2" TiMax air impact?

Frustrated...
 
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