Do we have any pharmacists here? Why does it take so long?

[Oillover]

When you’ve done four years of college, and then four years of pharmacy school, you should be well paid. Highly trained and specialized should equal well paid.

If that was enough earning potential for the investment in education, we would not have a shortage. The fact that there is a shortage tells you that that is too little earning potential for the education required.

If you would like the salary, feel free to put on the eight years. You’ll have to do well in school, by the way, it’s not easy to get into pharmacy school.

That's all fine and dandy, but the salary is based on several factors.
One of them being supply...clearly there's more than enough folks willing to sacrifice the time and effort to become a pharmacist, than there is demand. If there were less of them, I'd be willing to speculate the salary would be higher....but it isn't.

At the end of the day, 200k isn't anything to sneeze at.
That annual salary is still much higher than what the majority of the population is earning per year.

 

[The Critic]

My friend TC …

You live in a wombat run state… That is no where near representative of many, many areas outside of that state.

Vastly different from even my area.

Did you miss my statement about my company's salary adjustments by area?

Pharmacists in my area are REALLY well paid… I know where some of them live….

And it’s in the best neighborhoods in this region.

There’s a reason for that.

It is all relative - we can always find one-off examples but as a whole, the fact is, the field is less desirable to enter than many other healthcare roles.

At the end of the day, 200k isn't anything to sneeze at.
That annual salary is still much higher than what the majority of the population is earning per year.

It isn't, but if it costs you $300K in graduate schooling to make $150-$200k/yr (as a pharmacist) when someone can make the same amount of money with a $50-$100K undergrad degree (only) doing other things, does being a pharmacist still make sense?

 

[Dave Hess]

I’ve met lots of pharmacists here in Florida over the past 35 years working in a hospital and they are compensated ’fairly’ for their education and training. Pharmacy Directors make very good money, but lots of stress and responsibilities.

A few pharmacists told me they would choose a different career field if they could go back in time, same goes for other folks working in healthcare. I had a Physical Therapist tell me she is unhappy with her salary and PT was a mistake.

No career field is perfect, choose something you like and can make a decent living without struggling financially.

No doubt becoming a pharmacist requires a great deal of studying and financial commitment with all the student loans.

 

[LDB]

It isn't, but if it costs you $300K in graduate schooling to make $150-$200k/yr (as a pharmacist) when someone can make the same amount of money with a $50-$100K undergrad degree (only) doing other things, does being a pharmacist still make sense?

It makes perfect sense if it is the choice of the individual. Many people apparently desire that career. For them there's no decision.

 

[Dave Hess]

The Critic,

Which $50-100K undergrads pay $150-200K a year ?

 

[Astro14]

That's all fine and dandy, but the salary is based on several factors.
One of them being supply...clearly there's more than enough folks willing to sacrifice the time and effort to become a pharmacist, than there is demand. If there were less of them, I'd be willing to speculate the salary would be higher....but it isn't.

At the end of the day, 200k isn't anything to sneeze at.
That annual salary is still much higher than what the majority of the population is earning per year.

For the time spent becoming qualified, that salary is not much.

Remember, $200,000 is an average. You start at about $90,000. Work your way up. Make $200,000 for part of your career.

Less, much less, in some areas.

When four years of college and four years of pharmacy school cost you several hundred thousand, that salary is a joke.

You have supply and demand backwards. A shortage of qualified pharmacists should yield better salaries.

The fact there IS a shortage right now means that the salary offered is too low.

But with an eight year incubation period, even increased salaries will take a while to alleviate the shortage.

Again, if you want that pay -

Put in the work.

Otherwise, it’s just whining about those who have actually put in the work.

 

[Oillover]

You have supply and demand backwards. A shortage of qualified pharmacists should yield better salaries.

But with an eight year incubation period, even increased salaries will take a while to alleviate the shortage.

Again, if you want that pay -

Put in the work.

Otherwise, it’s just whining about those who have actually put in the work.

Yes, it should yield better results, but it doesn't.
That's the great thing about life, is it isn't always fair.

At the end of the day, it's about choosing a career that makes you happy, regardless of the pay.
Those who are whining about the pay should probably consider another career path. One that compensates them according to their salary expectations.

 

[Astro14]

Yes, it should yield better results, but it doesn't.
That's the great thing about life, is it isn't always fair.

At the end of the day, it's about choosing a career that makes you happy, regardless of the pay.
Those who are whining about the pay should probably consider another career path. One that compensates them according to their salary expectations.

Well, I didn’t mean pharmacists were whining - you were the one complaining about the pay.

That it’s nothing to sneeze at, that it’s more than most people make.

So what?

Even with that “sour grapes” post, the pay is clearly too low or there would not be a shortage of pharmacists.

It really is that simple.

And if you’re not making $200,000, and you think it’s a lot, maybe get your degree and go to pharmacy school?

 

[Oillover]

Well, I didn’t mean pharmacists were whining - you were the one complaining about the pay.

That it’s nothing to sneeze at, that it’s more than most people make.

So what?

Even with that “sour grapes” post, the pay is clearly too low or there would not be a shortage of pharmacists.

It really is that simple.

And if you’re not making $200,000, and you think it’s a lot, maybe get your degree and go to pharmacy school?

I'm not complaining.
I'm not even a pharmacist (nor do I aspire to become one), so why would I complain about that salary?
Not sure where the "sour grapes" post you are referring to is from...maybe you need to read what i posted again?

 

[PimTac]

The extra education added on in recent years has discouraged some from going that route. Most states require the PharmD whether you work retail or in a hospital/clinic setting. The rising costs of college education haven’t helped either.

The pandemic has really hit healthcare hard. Lots of people are leaving. Healthcare jobs usually meant overtime and plenty of it. Now the work is overwhelming. Shortages in every department affect everyone. Burnout is at an all time high and with hospitals operating with patient censuses way over 100% anyone could see why a person going to college might skip over healthcare.

 

[Dave Hess]

The extra education added on in recent years has discouraged some from going that route. Most states require the PharmD whether you work retail or in a hospital/clinic setting. The rising costs of college education haven’t helped either.

The pandemic has really hit healthcare hard. Lots of people are leaving. Healthcare jobs usually meant overtime and plenty of it. Now the work is overwhelming. Shortages in every department affect everyone. Burnout is at an all time high and with hospitals operating with patient censuses way over 100% anyone could see why a person going to college might skip over healthcare.

My brother is a nurse at VA hospital and lots of folks are burnt out and fed up. They regularly call him in cause of a staffing shortage and lower quality employees. Lots of dysfunction at the VA and difficult to get rid of bad employees.

He was a corpsman in the Navy and is old school so he has to watch what he says at work.

 

[99Saturn]

Fair, but does paying ~$300k in tuition (on top of undergrad) to earn $40-$70/hr make any sense?

PharmD Tuition and Financial Aid

pharmacy.pacific.edu

Come to NY ~ $125K in state; ~$170K out of state
https://www.binghamton.edu/pharmacy...academics/pharmd/students/future/tuition.html

The national company that I work for....has a 12% salary differential between super-low cost of living areas (e.g. Dakotas) and high cost of living areas. Our salary structures are very well validated by both internal and external industry sources. So, the arguments about CA (and major metropolitan areas) being on their own planet (from a COL standpoint) is not exactly accurate, IMO.

Also, at the $200K income level for an individual, your take-home (with typical 401K and medical deductions), is probably around $10K/mo. A decent bit of money, but not exactly upper middle class anymore.

Anyway, as mentioned earlier, pharmacists are decently compensated, but their current market salaries do not make sense for the required educational investment. Spending $200-$300K to earn $40-$70/hr doesn't really add up. PT's are a similar situation. There's a reason why many smart folks interested in healthcare are flocking to the RN, PA, NP and RT pathways.

Have to say I'm surprised to hear only a 12% differential - CA versus say the Dakotas in your example. Then again, salary bands within job grades where I work could be as wide as X to X+60% at the lower levels, so I am guessing there is a wide YMMV, at least for some companies. Same bands (my company) apply at various sites across the country and in particular for me, NY metro, NJ, PA area.

Anyway, on a personal basis, I don't have an issue with the higher (perceived or real) COL in CA. Conceptually I wouldn't even have an issue relocating, but I'm an east coaster and most of my family is here. My point was really, its hard to sum up a "reasonable" salary without in some ways being area specific. $200K gets you a lot in many areas across the country. I live 50ish miles outside of NYC, plenty of people not bringing home anywhere near $200K, and surely plenty of people bringing home more than that too.

I have a hard time believing $200K for an individual isn't defined as upper middle class. I did some quick googling and all the stats were well below $200K for upper middle class (likely looking at the national average).

 

[Dave Hess]

Because the pharmacist has 150 orders to fill before your friend’s prescription.

Lots of retail pharmacists (CVS, Walgreens, etc…) are swamped with orders to fill before they even start their day.

** Edit **
Crazy corporate metrics retail pharmacists have to meet, just because the pharmacy didn’t look busy the pharmacist is like a hamster on wheel trying to meet their goals. First In, First out filling of Rx.

Walgreens staff very unhappy with the metrics they have to meet while being short staffed and giving flu shots.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/06/business/walgreens-pharmacists-walkouts-protest-working-conditions/index.html

 

[bbhero]

When you’ve done four years of college, and then four years of pharmacy school, you should be well paid. Highly trained and specialized should equal well paid.

If that was enough earning potential for the investment in education, we would not have a shortage. The fact that there is a shortage tells you that that is too little earning potential for the education required.

If you would like the salary, feel free to put on the eight years. You’ll have to do well in school, by the way, it’s not easy to get into pharmacy school.

I actually disagree with you here on one aspect in regards to the “shortage “ circumstance.

I feel like there is a shortage in pharmacists really because there are not enough extremely gifted and intelligent to fill the pharmacy schools classes. That is my first thought here.

Second related possibility here… How many students are taken in per year in each Pharmacist school program ? I’d bet dollars to donuts it is a VERY low number per school

Here in Virginia when I was in school looking at nuclear med technician schools… Those numbers were extremely low. 10 per University. And there was only a couple of colleges in Virginia who even had that program available.


There is a large shortage of RNs has well.
And that has hardly nothing to do with the money earned is not worth the expense of college.

It has to do with each school having a limited number of places available for prospective students. With some of those schools being very strict in who they admit to their program. Because they all want a board pass rate above 90 percent.

I can only imagine how extremely difficult it has to be for someone to be admitted into a pharmacy school… I guarantee it’s way harder than getting into a RN program.

And like I said in my previous post that Jessie was extraordinarily gifted… He missed 1…. 1 test or quiz question out of 1,000 for an entire semester… And he was so doggone brilliant he corrected our professor three or four times and he was right every time. Jessie went to a pharmacy school in Ohio. He was amazingly gifted.

There are not many people waking around like that. And there certainly are hardly not many people waking around, breathing air who can be smart enough to be a pharmacist, physician, orthodontist, surgeon. Those people are in the top 98 or 99th percentile.

To get into nursing school you had to score above the 45th percentile on a general science and English exam to even be looked at getting into the school. I managed to score the highest at the Glenn’s RCC campus out of 22 students being at the 89th percentile. I beat this snobby lady who thought she was the best… She scored 87th percentile. I got a good laugh out of that.

Now I know for a fact that an extremely brilliant young lady Colette beat me by a good wide margin. She was at the other RCC campus in Warsaw. I studied with her one time and she memorized 200 more cards verbatim and she could apply them at a blink of an eye. She was in the top 99th percentile I bet.

 

[alarmguy]

I call a lot of this nonsense as far as getting prescriptions filled. At least in the Carolina's I am NOT saying there is no shortage of medical professionals including doctors. We need more for sure.

Maybe we have more of our fair share of professionals living here now. I can understand that. Heck, many of my specialists are both, raised, schooled, did their internships on Long Island and NYS. Im not looking to sound argumentative. I just don't see it. I do see lack of doctors or specialists but I always manage

We have to remember if I am remembering correctly the OP requested a written prescription. I don't know, call me crazy, Im no spring chicken but I scant remember in one or two decades that I ever got a written script. Everything is transmitted from the doctors office and for goodness sakes many times Im getting a set that my script is ready to be picked up before I can get from the doctors office to the drug store. This is in South Carolina and now North Carolina.