Do people really use Non Detergent oil?....They do around here!

[Mr TCar]

Down where I live(near Austin) every grocery store has lots of the non detergent straight 30 and 40 weight.They take up most of the shelf space in the automotive section and they cost around $1.15 a quart sometimes more.All the gas stations proudly display them and they cost way more there.

The stock is always fresh and many times I see that they need to push the rest of the bottles to the front at the grocery store.I see people buy 10-15 quarts at a time, some times just 1 quart with the rest of the groceries.There are quite a few different brands of the stuff Western Star,Golden State,Blue Ribbon come to mind.

I have been in the automotive section when some folks say they need oil and they say "let's get Golden State" and they proceed to purchase enough for an oil change.

There are many other brands I can't think of right now,but they all use words like "Premium" "Best" "Supreme" "Pure Basestocks" "Pristine Basestocks" "SA Quality" on the back and front of the bottles.I think people like the SA quality thing as if that was a certification of being the best quality(A Grade) for their car.

And yet that nasty bad Chevron SL( low end quality) 10W30 (multigrade is a bunch of Bull)is $1.10 at Wal-Mart and PepBoys tries to get rid of their waxy sludge ridden Pennzoil at $.89 per quart with rebate.And yet people in Texas pay a premium for non detergent s**t!

Texas sure knows what oil to use.They use the best A Grade stuff!

 

[seotaji]

i wonder how a newer engine would run after using SA it's whole life.

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by seotaji:
i wonder how a newer engine would run after using SA it's whole life.

---

Of course, that begs the question of just how long that "whole life" really will be. . .

 

[Chris142]

I saw some SB oil the other day. It was available in 10w-40 and 20w-50!

Why would a company go through the trouble to make a multi vis non-det oil?

Maybe it's a better quality oil with the SB thing on the bottle?

And I don't understand why someone would pay the $1.99 for this stuff when Wallmart has a much better oil for $.88

 

[brianl703]

Maybe they use non-detergent oil because it never gets dirty and they think that's a good thing?

 

[Thomas Pyrek]

I'd interview them and say it was for a marketing class.

 

[Ed]

I believe the oil companies produce limited quantities of older formulations because there is still a demand for it.
Some people who restore or use older cars want to retain the authenticity of the original equipment.
I really doubt if a Concourse d'Elegance inspector would judge the score of a classic by having the oil analysed to see if it met the original oem specs.
There are some people that really believe the newer formulations are inferior to what their parents used. I'm surprised just how many people have this foolish notion.
Non-detergent oil defintely has its uses. Lubrication that never has to deal with extremely high temperatures or combustion by-products will be lubed better with ND as well as being less toxic.

There were qute a few foreign cars that were very specific about their requirements to us Non-Detergent oil so for people who are anal about following directions, they would use that product.

Also there is some justification to the notion that new (zero time) engines be broken in with Non detergent oil. This is highly dependent on the engine builder, his experience with specific engines, and the materials used for the rings, Block,etc. Some engines can use Mobil 1 right from the get go without a hint of a problem and others may not. One theory is that a quart can holds only a quart and the addition of additives means that much less oil and therefore that much less lubrication.

A lot has been said about using detergent oil with an engine that has been run with ND and is full of sludge. The story goes that the detergent oil will loosen harmless sludge, allow it to circulate and plug things up. I say Balderdsash and tommy rot. My 37 Dodge that I had many years ago probably never had an oil change in its life.
The original owner believed that the oil that came with car was the best for it so he would only clean (not change) the filter. (he would rinse it in kerosene every few thousand miles) and add fresh ND oil to make up the difference.
When I acquired the car in 1962 the engine actually ran fairly well but would lay a smoke screen the likes of you can only imagine. There was so much sludge in the engine that you couldn't even make out the valve springs with sidecovers removed. (wanted to check the valve lash) Removing the oil drain plug produced only a trickle of oil until I poked a hole through the sludge with my finger. Everyone warned me DONT USE DETERGENT OIL it'll loosen the sludge and cause the engine to eat itself. I didn't believe it then just as I don't believe it now. I used 30W detergent oil, changed every 2000 miles for the following 5 years, I drove that little busness coupe everywhere and the guy I eventually sold it to drove from Southern Cal. to Eugene Oregon without a hiccup. Kept under 55 MPH the oil consumption was reasonable. (Quart with every gas fillup)
The sludge in the engine DIDN'T MOVE. The detergent oil didn't touch it but no doubt added a lot less than ND would have.

 

[darkdan]

The air compressor at work uses 30 weight nondetergent oil....maybe everyone in your area has a lot of air compressors. /shrug

 

[Hirev]

I have had several people over the years tell me 30 ND oil "has more oil in it" cause it does not use additives. It does not make sense to me but you know how urban legions are. I worked in a gas station in the 70s and there were people that would have a cow if you did not use 30wt ND to add oil.

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

---

PepBoys tries to get rid of their waxy sludge ridden Pennzoil at $.89 per quart with rebate

---

What makes you think Pennzoil is a waxy sludge-ridden oil?

My findings indicate that many ND oils are high in AW additives, but very low in detergents/dispersants.

I believe there are two main reasons people buy the NA oil:

Many people buy oils on price alone, because they are uneducated about oils.

Some people buy ND oils because they may feel this is all they can afford.

[ September 12, 2004, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[KW]

A lot of people use it around here too. It seems to be the Quicky Mart crowd that uses it. I found some out in my Dad's shop near the mowers and tractors. He said "oh I thought that's what I was supposed to use in this equipment". It must be a "duh" moment when he is in the Quicky Mart.

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

---

And yet that nasty bad Chevron SL( low end quality) 10W30 (multigrade is a bunch of Bull)is $1.10

---

Chevron is one of the better dinos and multigrades are a matter of fact. No Bull!

 

[TC]

Kendall describes non-detergent oil as useful for "Pre-1964 passenger cars, lightly loaded gear sets that do not require an extreme pressure lubricant, and air compressors that require a non-detergent oil." They also state the obvious: "...SB performance category oil...is generally not recommended for use in engines because even older engines can benefit from the use of more modern oil formulations."

NOCO Energy describes non-detergent as "...ideal for hydraulic systems and certain types of gear lubrication. Can be used in automatic, farm and marine transmissions and gear cases." This might be another good application for ND?...transmissions and gear cases which use motor oil, since these are non-combustion environments.

As for the old practice of using non-detergent during engine break-in, evidently this practice is now largely obsolete per Quaker State: "It was common years ago for engine manufacturers to recommend non-detergent oils for engine break-in. This was when the pistons used cast-iron “square-faced” rings and the rings needed to wear some to “seat” into the engine. With today’s technology of oils and engine manufacturing, engine manufacturers no longer recommend the use of non-detergent oils for the break-in period. In fact, engines today are factory-filled with high quality API SL performance motor oil, which contains high levels of detergents and dispersant additives."

Hate to say it, but I have little doubt it often comes down to customer sophistication (or lack thereof). I'd guess that most ND oil buyers simply don't know what they're buying. Consumer agencies in California and several other states have cracked down on the sale of non-detergent oils as essentially misleading advertising. Certain "Not appropriate for use in..." labels are now required in Cal and elsewhere:
http://www.authorized-amsoil-dealer...rticles/oil-information/lubrication-news.html

 

[Mr TCar]

Seriously guys, I know Chevron and Pennzoil are some of the best if not THE best PCMOs out there.Around here people don't use pennzoil because it's inferior to Valvoline and Castrol(who knows how they got that idea) and they never really use Chevron except for Delo.

In and around my town I really don't see people buying oil unless it's non detergent.

Now if you go to Wal-Mart in Austin or San Marcos you can see that they sell lots of Mobil 1,Castrol,Pennzoil,Super Tech,Valvoline,etc. And of course,non detergent oil.

Yet, go to any grocery store(huge chain or small)and there is all that SA oil sold at a premium that no one can seem to leave alone!

What I am trying to say is that people around here buy way too much SA oil.Some top off with it and some have a whole sump full of it for their Ford pickup.I will take Redline 10w30 please,thank you.

 

[HunterG69]

I hate to be the one to say it, given so many before are surely better than me but:

Sure say's alot 'bout Texas.

 

[oilpan49]

Hey,

Yep, same here! The local Dollar General Store has 30wt and 40wt Dollar General brand oil for about $79/qt. I was just in there yesterday and the Automotive stuff is looking alittle dusty, lol

But then again, I go to work and oddly enough there some old timers that work with me and I sometimes hear "nope I ain't changed my oil in 2 years and my truck still runs fine on ND oil" Well I wanted to see there dipstick in there truck. Just what I expected, black maple syrup. There trucks burned and leaked oil like crazy but ran like champs. I just don't understand how some people can do that, not to mention the trucks. I'm sure Auto-rx would feast in there engines,,,,,AR

 

[Flimflam]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr TCar:
Down where I live(near Austin) every grocery store has lots of the non detergent straight 30 and 40 weight.They take up most of the shelf space in the automotive section and they cost around $1.15 a quart sometimes more.All the gas stations proudly display them and they cost way more there. (deleted....)

---

I dunno about non-detergent, but if you drive around a lot in the Gulf States: TX, LA, Miss, AL, FL, you will meet people who insist on using only monograde dino 30 or 40, to **** with what the owner's manual says. They reckon that if their great-grand Daddy, their grandad, grandma, etc. used straight 30 and it worked, no calculator-totin' little squirt in a car design plant is gonna tell them what oil to use. They do get great results, even going against (car) manufacturer instructions for motor oil weights.

To me, it does make sense in hot climates. HD-30's have no or few VI-improver polymers to cook off and leave carbon and sludge in your engine. And in hot climates, one does not need good cold-flowing, cold-pumping characteristics.

 

[Ray H]

How close is Wimberly, TX to the Mexican border? I see a lot of "SA" straight viscosity oils on shelves where I live, too. I'm suspicious that this "SA" oil popularity phenomenon is a socio-ethnic demographic influenced by poor education, economic factors, and the steadily increasing northern migration of Mexican nationals. All this plays into the hands of the unscrupulous "blenders" who cater to these recent arrivals - who, if they can read at all, likely make their purchase decision as soon as they see, "aceite", on the cheaply priced bottles. Welcome to America - land of opportunity! Give me your Poor, your Tired, your MONEY...

[ September 13, 2004, 04:04 AM: Message edited by: Ray H ]

 

[Jimbo]

At least the straight 30 and 40 at the 99 Cent Stores here is 76 Custom, API rated CD/SF.

 

[EmbarkChief]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ekpolk:

quote:

---

Originally posted by seotaji:
i wonder how a newer engine would run after using SA it's whole life.

---

Of course, that begs the question of just how long that "whole life" really will be. . .

---

How about over 300K miles with ZERO engine related issues? As in didn't (still doesnt in one case) consume a noticeable amount of oil over an OCI?

Two vehicles in my family have run that and more using straight 30 for their entire service life. Oil changes at 3K without fail, both were 350 SBC's ('72 and '87) and were located in Houston, Texas. With that said I run M1 or GC in my LT1 ('96 SBC 350), but my engine isn't going to last that long. Makes you wonder....