Sadly, there's cheating in EVERY sport, amateur and professional. Years ago Mike Helton said that Nascar had confiscated more illegal parts from Petty Enterprises than any other Nascar team. Richard Petty is probably the most well liked of any driver in Nascar....go figure.
Deflate-gate
- Thread starter MalfunctionProne
- Start date
- Status
Once a cheat always a cheat. At least that is the perception Bill B will always carry now and frankly he brought it on himself. He is always pushing the envelope and straddling the line on gray areas. He will on occasion also outright cheat such as spygate. He will look for anything he can come up with to gain an advantage and he is not against using gray area tactics. To me that makes him kind of slimey. I am not a win at any cost or by any means kind of guy. I actually stopped being a Patriot's fan because of Bill B and how he treats the players and his envelope pushing.
While the deflated balls in and of themselves are not a huge deal many people claim( I disagree )you have to remember it is yet another instance where the Patriots were caught cheating. If this was the 1st/only thing they were ever accused of it wouldn't be the big deal it is now. Seeing as it is not the 1st time they have crossed the line into blatant rule breaking, and it happened in the AFC Championship game, it makes it more of an issue for them and the league.
I also want to say that I disagree with people who say it is not a big deal and that it gave little if any advantage to the Patriots. My response to them is this, if it gave no advantage why did they do it? Someone thought it was worth breaking the rules or it wouldn't have happened. Also, breaking the rules is breaking the rules. Big issue or small they still cheated.
11 of the 12 balls used by the Patriots were 2+/- PSI under and the 12th barely met spec's while the Colts balls were all found to be within legal spec's. That means at some point someone on the Patriots purposely let air out of them. They either submitted them low and they got past the Ref inspection( if so Ref should face penalties )or they were deflated at some point after the Ref inspection and before the game. Either way they HAD TO BE intentionally set to a PSI below the established minimum spec per league rules. Once again that = CHEATING! An underinflated ball is easier to grip in wet conditions which is exactly what they had( rain )so that helps the Patriot's QB, RB's, and WR's hold onto the ball better at least to a degree and once again = CHEATING!
I have heard people try and say it was a loss of PSI due to weather/temp. Sorry but that is bull. It was 51 degrees at game time and only dropped to the mid 40's at the end. At MOST there would have been a 1PSI drop. 11 of the 12 were 2 PSI under. Not enough temp change to cause a 2 PSI drop. Plus, for the temp to really be a factor, just as with our tires, you need the temps down in the low 30's to upper 20's if not lower. 40-50 degrees will have minimal if any effect on the ball's PSI.
I don't know if this was Bill B behind this or if it was Brady. I wouldn't put it past either of them truth be told. However, seeing as neither will own up to it the coach is the one who should face the consequences if any. Ultimately he is responsible for what goes on with the team.
IMO Bill B should be fined and face a suspension of some sort. IF it is found that Brady knew he should face the same. Frankly, they both should be hammered hard if it can be proved they were involved or knew because they have lied about it since which makes it worse. The Patriot's should get a very large team fine as well and maybe a loss of draft picks. Not because of the deflated balls themselves but rather because this is yet another time they have broken the rules with the same owner and coach.
I know this won't be popular with the Patriot's fans here but I don't care. If I was Kraft I would have to start thinking about Bill B continuing on as my head coach. The guy clearly is not truly honest and ethical. He lives in the gray world that straddles the line between legal and illegal and he will cross it when he thinks it is worth it or he can get away with it. Even if he wasn't involved with this incident he clearly has established a culture on the team were people think that is how you do things. At some point the continued hit to the team's reputation and the fines/other punishments are not worth it.
What gets me the most about the whole thing is the Colts had about as much chance of winning that game as I do being crowned King Of England. There was ZERO reason for the Patriot's to cheat. The risk they took was not worth it and it has added yet anther black mark to the Patriot's franchise on the whole which is a shame. I just hope they do not win the Super Bowl. I hate to see cheaters win. The Seahawks are not choir boys by any stretch, and while I don't blame the players on the Patriot's not involved in this latest scandal, I will be rooting for the boys from the Pacific Northwest to crush the Patriots in the SB.
While the deflated balls in and of themselves are not a huge deal many people claim( I disagree )you have to remember it is yet another instance where the Patriots were caught cheating. If this was the 1st/only thing they were ever accused of it wouldn't be the big deal it is now. Seeing as it is not the 1st time they have crossed the line into blatant rule breaking, and it happened in the AFC Championship game, it makes it more of an issue for them and the league.
I also want to say that I disagree with people who say it is not a big deal and that it gave little if any advantage to the Patriots. My response to them is this, if it gave no advantage why did they do it? Someone thought it was worth breaking the rules or it wouldn't have happened. Also, breaking the rules is breaking the rules. Big issue or small they still cheated.
11 of the 12 balls used by the Patriots were 2+/- PSI under and the 12th barely met spec's while the Colts balls were all found to be within legal spec's. That means at some point someone on the Patriots purposely let air out of them. They either submitted them low and they got past the Ref inspection( if so Ref should face penalties )or they were deflated at some point after the Ref inspection and before the game. Either way they HAD TO BE intentionally set to a PSI below the established minimum spec per league rules. Once again that = CHEATING! An underinflated ball is easier to grip in wet conditions which is exactly what they had( rain )so that helps the Patriot's QB, RB's, and WR's hold onto the ball better at least to a degree and once again = CHEATING!
I have heard people try and say it was a loss of PSI due to weather/temp. Sorry but that is bull. It was 51 degrees at game time and only dropped to the mid 40's at the end. At MOST there would have been a 1PSI drop. 11 of the 12 were 2 PSI under. Not enough temp change to cause a 2 PSI drop. Plus, for the temp to really be a factor, just as with our tires, you need the temps down in the low 30's to upper 20's if not lower. 40-50 degrees will have minimal if any effect on the ball's PSI.
I don't know if this was Bill B behind this or if it was Brady. I wouldn't put it past either of them truth be told. However, seeing as neither will own up to it the coach is the one who should face the consequences if any. Ultimately he is responsible for what goes on with the team.
IMO Bill B should be fined and face a suspension of some sort. IF it is found that Brady knew he should face the same. Frankly, they both should be hammered hard if it can be proved they were involved or knew because they have lied about it since which makes it worse. The Patriot's should get a very large team fine as well and maybe a loss of draft picks. Not because of the deflated balls themselves but rather because this is yet another time they have broken the rules with the same owner and coach.
I know this won't be popular with the Patriot's fans here but I don't care. If I was Kraft I would have to start thinking about Bill B continuing on as my head coach. The guy clearly is not truly honest and ethical. He lives in the gray world that straddles the line between legal and illegal and he will cross it when he thinks it is worth it or he can get away with it. Even if he wasn't involved with this incident he clearly has established a culture on the team were people think that is how you do things. At some point the continued hit to the team's reputation and the fines/other punishments are not worth it.
What gets me the most about the whole thing is the Colts had about as much chance of winning that game as I do being crowned King Of England. There was ZERO reason for the Patriot's to cheat. The risk they took was not worth it and it has added yet anther black mark to the Patriot's franchise on the whole which is a shame. I just hope they do not win the Super Bowl. I hate to see cheaters win. The Seahawks are not choir boys by any stretch, and while I don't blame the players on the Patriot's not involved in this latest scandal, I will be rooting for the boys from the Pacific Northwest to crush the Patriots in the SB.
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
What would happen in Nascar if you won the race but upon race win inspection, Nascar officials discovered the engine had 1/2 point higher compression than allowed?
I've heard the "Patriots would have won anyways".
You don't know that.
If Brady knew the balls were deflated, it could have gave him a mental edge to play far better vs them being inflated to spec.
It seems more and more guys are becoming addicted to football like it's heroin. They get dope sick after the Super Bowl.
As I have yet to learn of any positive societal benefits of professional sports, I will simply label it an opiate of the masses.
What would happen in Nascar if you won the race but upon race win inspection, Nascar officials discovered the engine had 1/2 point higher compression than allowed?
I've heard the "Patriots would have won anyways".
You don't know that.
If Brady knew the balls were deflated, it could have gave him a mental edge to play far better vs them being inflated to spec.
It seems more and more guys are becoming addicted to football like it's heroin. They get dope sick after the Super Bowl.
As I have yet to learn of any positive societal benefits of professional sports, I will simply label it an opiate of the masses.
Originally Posted By: gman2304
Sadly, there's cheating in EVERY sport, amateur and professional. Years ago Mike Helton said that Nascar had confiscated more illegal parts from Petty Enterprises than any other Nascar team. Richard Petty is probably the most well liked of any driver in Nascar....go figure.
You are correct in it being everywhere. In every sport there are guys looking for the advantage that isnt clearly written in the rulebook. It happened all the time at my local dirt track and I am sure it still does today.
Sadly, there's cheating in EVERY sport, amateur and professional. Years ago Mike Helton said that Nascar had confiscated more illegal parts from Petty Enterprises than any other Nascar team. Richard Petty is probably the most well liked of any driver in Nascar....go figure.
You are correct in it being everywhere. In every sport there are guys looking for the advantage that isnt clearly written in the rulebook. It happened all the time at my local dirt track and I am sure it still does today.
Guess you missed this, http://www.headsmartlabs.com/#in-the-news
or this
http://nesn.com/2015/01/boston-college-professor-weather-had-to-play-role-in-deflategate/
Could you please tell us where the balls were underinflated since the Refs air the balls or deflate them pregame to 12.5-13.5 PSI and then keep them locked up on the field until 10 minutes before kick off?
I have no dog in this fight since I am a Giants fan but the only explanation is the Refs probably didn't check them pregame with a guage, and the above link shows a delta of 20 degrees equal to a drop of 1.95 PSI, so that makes sense but lets not allow science to answer this question, haters gotta hate.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Once a cheat always a cheat. At least that is the perception Bill B will always carry now and frankly he brought it on himself. He is always pushing the envelope and straddling the line on gray areas. He will on occasion also outright cheat such as spygate. He will look for anything he can come up with to gain an advantage and he is not against using gray area tactics. To me that makes him kind of slimey. I am not a win at any cost or by any means kind of guy. I actually stopped being a Patriot's fan because of Bill B and how he treats the players and his envelope pushing.
While the deflated balls in and of themselves are not a huge deal many people claim( I disagree )you have to remember it is yet another instance where the Patriots were caught cheating. If this was the 1st/only thing they were ever accused of it wouldn't be the big deal it is now. Seeing as it is not the 1st time they have crossed the line into blatant rule breaking, and it happened in the AFC Championship game, it makes it more of an issue for them and the league.
I also want to say that I disagree with people who say it is not a big deal and that it gave little if any advantage to the Patriots. My response to them is this, if it gave no advantage why did they do it? Someone thought it was worth breaking the rules or it wouldn't have happened. Also, breaking the rules is breaking the rules. Big issue or small they still cheated.
11 of the 12 balls used by the Patriots were 2+/- PSI under and the 12th barely met spec's while the Colts balls were all found to be within legal spec's. That means at some point someone on the Patriots purposely let air out of them. They either submitted them low and they got past the Ref inspection( if so Ref should face penalties )or they were deflated at some point after the Ref inspection and before the game. Either way they HAD TO BE intentionally set to a PSI below the established minimum spec per league rules. Once again that = CHEATING! An underinflated ball is easier to grip in wet conditions which is exactly what they had( rain )so that helps the Patriot's QB, RB's, and WR's hold onto the ball better at least to a degree and once again = CHEATING!
I have heard people try and say it was a loss of PSI due to weather/temp. Sorry but that is bull. It was 51 degrees at game time and only dropped to the mid 40's at the end. At MOST there would have been a 1PSI drop. 11 of the 12 were 2 PSI under. Not enough temp change to cause a 2 PSI drop. Plus, for the temp to really be a factor, just as with our tires, you need the temps down in the low 30's to upper 20's if not lower. 40-50 degrees will have minimal if any effect on the ball's PSI.
I don't know if this was Bill B behind this or if it was Brady. I wouldn't put it past either of them truth be told. However, seeing as neither will own up to it the coach is the one who should face the consequences if any. Ultimately he is responsible for what goes on with the team.
IMO Bill B should be fined and face a suspension of some sort. IF it is found that Brady knew he should face the same. Frankly, they both should be hammered hard if it can be proved they were involved or knew because they have lied about it since which makes it worse. The Patriot's should get a very large team fine as well and maybe a loss of draft picks. Not because of the deflated balls themselves but rather because this is yet another time they have broken the rules with the same owner and coach.
I know this won't be popular with the Patriot's fans here but I don't care. If I was Kraft I would have to start thinking about Bill B continuing on as my head coach. The guy clearly is not truly honest and ethical. He lives in the gray world that straddles the line between legal and illegal and he will cross it when he thinks it is worth it or he can get away with it. Even if he wasn't involved with this incident he clearly has established a culture on the team were people think that is how you do things. At some point the continued hit to the team's reputation and the fines/other punishments are not worth it.
What gets me the most about the whole thing is the Colts had about as much chance of winning that game as I do being crowned King Of England. There was ZERO reason for the Patriot's to cheat. The risk they took was not worth it and it has added yet anther black mark to the Patriot's franchise on the whole which is a shame. I just hope they do not win the Super Bowl. I hate to see cheaters win. The Seahawks are not choir boys by any stretch, and while I don't blame the players on the Patriot's not involved in this latest scandal, I will be rooting for the boys from the Pacific Northwest to crush the Patriots in the SB.
or this
http://nesn.com/2015/01/boston-college-professor-weather-had-to-play-role-in-deflategate/
Could you please tell us where the balls were underinflated since the Refs air the balls or deflate them pregame to 12.5-13.5 PSI and then keep them locked up on the field until 10 minutes before kick off?
I have no dog in this fight since I am a Giants fan but the only explanation is the Refs probably didn't check them pregame with a guage, and the above link shows a delta of 20 degrees equal to a drop of 1.95 PSI, so that makes sense but lets not allow science to answer this question, haters gotta hate.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Once a cheat always a cheat. At least that is the perception Bill B will always carry now and frankly he brought it on himself. He is always pushing the envelope and straddling the line on gray areas. He will on occasion also outright cheat such as spygate. He will look for anything he can come up with to gain an advantage and he is not against using gray area tactics. To me that makes him kind of slimey. I am not a win at any cost or by any means kind of guy. I actually stopped being a Patriot's fan because of Bill B and how he treats the players and his envelope pushing.
While the deflated balls in and of themselves are not a huge deal many people claim( I disagree )you have to remember it is yet another instance where the Patriots were caught cheating. If this was the 1st/only thing they were ever accused of it wouldn't be the big deal it is now. Seeing as it is not the 1st time they have crossed the line into blatant rule breaking, and it happened in the AFC Championship game, it makes it more of an issue for them and the league.
I also want to say that I disagree with people who say it is not a big deal and that it gave little if any advantage to the Patriots. My response to them is this, if it gave no advantage why did they do it? Someone thought it was worth breaking the rules or it wouldn't have happened. Also, breaking the rules is breaking the rules. Big issue or small they still cheated.
11 of the 12 balls used by the Patriots were 2+/- PSI under and the 12th barely met spec's while the Colts balls were all found to be within legal spec's. That means at some point someone on the Patriots purposely let air out of them. They either submitted them low and they got past the Ref inspection( if so Ref should face penalties )or they were deflated at some point after the Ref inspection and before the game. Either way they HAD TO BE intentionally set to a PSI below the established minimum spec per league rules. Once again that = CHEATING! An underinflated ball is easier to grip in wet conditions which is exactly what they had( rain )so that helps the Patriot's QB, RB's, and WR's hold onto the ball better at least to a degree and once again = CHEATING!
I have heard people try and say it was a loss of PSI due to weather/temp. Sorry but that is bull. It was 51 degrees at game time and only dropped to the mid 40's at the end. At MOST there would have been a 1PSI drop. 11 of the 12 were 2 PSI under. Not enough temp change to cause a 2 PSI drop. Plus, for the temp to really be a factor, just as with our tires, you need the temps down in the low 30's to upper 20's if not lower. 40-50 degrees will have minimal if any effect on the ball's PSI.
I don't know if this was Bill B behind this or if it was Brady. I wouldn't put it past either of them truth be told. However, seeing as neither will own up to it the coach is the one who should face the consequences if any. Ultimately he is responsible for what goes on with the team.
IMO Bill B should be fined and face a suspension of some sort. IF it is found that Brady knew he should face the same. Frankly, they both should be hammered hard if it can be proved they were involved or knew because they have lied about it since which makes it worse. The Patriot's should get a very large team fine as well and maybe a loss of draft picks. Not because of the deflated balls themselves but rather because this is yet another time they have broken the rules with the same owner and coach.
I know this won't be popular with the Patriot's fans here but I don't care. If I was Kraft I would have to start thinking about Bill B continuing on as my head coach. The guy clearly is not truly honest and ethical. He lives in the gray world that straddles the line between legal and illegal and he will cross it when he thinks it is worth it or he can get away with it. Even if he wasn't involved with this incident he clearly has established a culture on the team were people think that is how you do things. At some point the continued hit to the team's reputation and the fines/other punishments are not worth it.
What gets me the most about the whole thing is the Colts had about as much chance of winning that game as I do being crowned King Of England. There was ZERO reason for the Patriot's to cheat. The risk they took was not worth it and it has added yet anther black mark to the Patriot's franchise on the whole which is a shame. I just hope they do not win the Super Bowl. I hate to see cheaters win. The Seahawks are not choir boys by any stretch, and while I don't blame the players on the Patriot's not involved in this latest scandal, I will be rooting for the boys from the Pacific Northwest to crush the Patriots in the SB.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: sicko
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
What would happen in Nascar if you won the race but upon race win inspection, Nascar officials discovered the engine had 1/2 point higher compression than allowed?
I've heard the "Patriots would have won anyways".
You don't know that.
If Brady knew the balls were deflated, it could have gave him a mental edge to play far better vs them being inflated to spec.
It seems more and more guys are becoming addicted to football like it's heroin. They get dope sick after the Super Bowl.
I believe the balls were tested and corrected at half time. The Patriots outscored the Colts 28-0 in the second half. So I think we can safely say that the Patriots would've won either way because taking away the points of the first half, the final score still would've been 28-7.
+1. The pressure was supposedly verified at the end of the game also, at least that is what was said on the radio around here. If this is such a huge issue, then the reform that needs to come out of all of this is that the NFL provides all balls, have all pressures certified by both the league and an independent entity, secure the balls and THE LEAGUE is the only entity that has access to them prior to the game. Problem solved.
Sounds like a whole lot of hassle to go through.
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
What would happen in Nascar if you won the race but upon race win inspection, Nascar officials discovered the engine had 1/2 point higher compression than allowed?
I've heard the "Patriots would have won anyways".
You don't know that.
If Brady knew the balls were deflated, it could have gave him a mental edge to play far better vs them being inflated to spec.
It seems more and more guys are becoming addicted to football like it's heroin. They get dope sick after the Super Bowl.
I believe the balls were tested and corrected at half time. The Patriots outscored the Colts 28-0 in the second half. So I think we can safely say that the Patriots would've won either way because taking away the points of the first half, the final score still would've been 28-7.
+1. The pressure was supposedly verified at the end of the game also, at least that is what was said on the radio around here. If this is such a huge issue, then the reform that needs to come out of all of this is that the NFL provides all balls, have all pressures certified by both the league and an independent entity, secure the balls and THE LEAGUE is the only entity that has access to them prior to the game. Problem solved.
Sounds like a whole lot of hassle to go through.
Originally Posted By: VNTS
Guess you missed this, http://www.headsmartlabs.com/#in-the-news
or this
http://nesn.com/2015/01/boston-college-professor-weather-had-to-play-role-in-deflategate/
Could you please tell us where the balls were underinflated since the Refs air the balls or deflate them pregame to 12.5-13.5 PSI and then keep them locked up on the field until 10 minutes before kick off?
I have no dog in this fight since I am a Giants fan but the only explanation is the Refs probably didn't check them pregame with a guage, and the above link shows a delta of 20 degrees equal to a drop of 1.95 PSI, so that makes sense but lets not allow science to answer this question, haters gotta hate.
Haters gotta hate and cheaters gotta cheat!
Not sure where anyone gets 20 degrees when there was not even a 10 degree swing in temp during the game. Started at 51 and finished around 42-43 as memory serves the reports claim. You also need temps below freezing for it to really impact the PSI( that whole 1 PSI p/ 10 degree drop thing ). Temps in the 40's and 50's are not going to drop the PSI that much. Please use some common sense.
I don't know where the balls were deflated. I wasn't there but what I know from reports is 11 of 12 Patriot balls were upwards of 2 PSI underinflated while the 12th was barely legal. According to reports all 12 of the Colts balls were in spec. Sure seems like a reasonable person can connect the dots that something fishy went on with the Patriot's balls and especially since they have cheated before.
If the Ref's did their job and checked the 12 balls out pregame as they are supposed to the deflating came after that at some point. If they didn't check them properly they could have been submitted low. In either case it would be intentional and cheating on the part of the Patriots. Once scenario just involves Ref's not doing their job and catching it but it in no way excuses or absolves the Patriots.
So by your logic, and what I hear from so many, the Ref's and/or weather are somehow to blame and not the Patriots( an organization with a recent cheating history )? Or am I missing something and you are claiming foul play against the Patriots( i.e. they were setup )? I mean come on, the Colts balls were fine. Only the Patriot's balls were under. Are we to believe the Ref's ONLY checked the Colts balls pregame and the weather ONLY impacted the Patriot's balls and not the Colts. Seems like a lame defense to me.
Bottom line is the Patriots( someone on the team anyway )had a hand in this. The balls were either submitted for inspection low hoping to get past the Ref's( which they did if this happened ), or, at some point after the inspection when the balls were released they were able to deflate them. It wasn't the weather. The weather defense being used just doesn't cut it with the warmish temps during game time plus the fact none of the Colts balls were under spec.
Guess you missed this, http://www.headsmartlabs.com/#in-the-news
or this
http://nesn.com/2015/01/boston-college-professor-weather-had-to-play-role-in-deflategate/
Could you please tell us where the balls were underinflated since the Refs air the balls or deflate them pregame to 12.5-13.5 PSI and then keep them locked up on the field until 10 minutes before kick off?
I have no dog in this fight since I am a Giants fan but the only explanation is the Refs probably didn't check them pregame with a guage, and the above link shows a delta of 20 degrees equal to a drop of 1.95 PSI, so that makes sense but lets not allow science to answer this question, haters gotta hate.
Haters gotta hate and cheaters gotta cheat!
Not sure where anyone gets 20 degrees when there was not even a 10 degree swing in temp during the game. Started at 51 and finished around 42-43 as memory serves the reports claim. You also need temps below freezing for it to really impact the PSI( that whole 1 PSI p/ 10 degree drop thing ). Temps in the 40's and 50's are not going to drop the PSI that much. Please use some common sense.
I don't know where the balls were deflated. I wasn't there but what I know from reports is 11 of 12 Patriot balls were upwards of 2 PSI underinflated while the 12th was barely legal. According to reports all 12 of the Colts balls were in spec. Sure seems like a reasonable person can connect the dots that something fishy went on with the Patriot's balls and especially since they have cheated before.
If the Ref's did their job and checked the 12 balls out pregame as they are supposed to the deflating came after that at some point. If they didn't check them properly they could have been submitted low. In either case it would be intentional and cheating on the part of the Patriots. Once scenario just involves Ref's not doing their job and catching it but it in no way excuses or absolves the Patriots.
So by your logic, and what I hear from so many, the Ref's and/or weather are somehow to blame and not the Patriots( an organization with a recent cheating history )? Or am I missing something and you are claiming foul play against the Patriots( i.e. they were setup )? I mean come on, the Colts balls were fine. Only the Patriot's balls were under. Are we to believe the Ref's ONLY checked the Colts balls pregame and the weather ONLY impacted the Patriot's balls and not the Colts. Seems like a lame defense to me.
Bottom line is the Patriots( someone on the team anyway )had a hand in this. The balls were either submitted for inspection low hoping to get past the Ref's( which they did if this happened ), or, at some point after the inspection when the balls were released they were able to deflate them. It wasn't the weather. The weather defense being used just doesn't cut it with the warmish temps during game time plus the fact none of the Colts balls were under spec.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
...Once scenario just involves Ref's not doing their job and catching it but it in no way excuses or absolves the Patriots.
I disagree with this part. The old saying "you ain't trying if you ain't cheating" applies here. All sports have varying levels of gamesmanship/cheating/whatever. Hockey players tape and curve their sticks, basketball players flop, baseball players cork bats/use pine tar/pretend they made a catch when they know it hit the ground/etc, the list is endless. I can't get too bent out of shape about any of it. The officials' job is to enforce the rules to prevent such trickery but they of course are not perfect.
Let's stipulate that the Patriots intentionally provided 11 underinflated balls and 13 properly inflated balls. The referees had the opportunity, both before the game and one or more times before and after virtually every play, to verify the correct pressure. They failed to do so.
As someone else pointed out, after the officials introduced the remaining properly inflated balls in the 2nd half, the Patriots continued to crush the Colts, in more impressive fashion than in the first half when they held the supposed advantage from the underinflated balls.
Last, in my opinion as someone who plays football regularly for most of the year, this issue is overblown har har. The texture/grip of the ball's surface, if it's clean or dirty, dry or wet, and the temperature are all much more relevant to the ease of throwing, holding, and catching the ball than subtle differences in pressure.
jeff
...Once scenario just involves Ref's not doing their job and catching it but it in no way excuses or absolves the Patriots.
I disagree with this part. The old saying "you ain't trying if you ain't cheating" applies here. All sports have varying levels of gamesmanship/cheating/whatever. Hockey players tape and curve their sticks, basketball players flop, baseball players cork bats/use pine tar/pretend they made a catch when they know it hit the ground/etc, the list is endless. I can't get too bent out of shape about any of it. The officials' job is to enforce the rules to prevent such trickery but they of course are not perfect.
Let's stipulate that the Patriots intentionally provided 11 underinflated balls and 13 properly inflated balls. The referees had the opportunity, both before the game and one or more times before and after virtually every play, to verify the correct pressure. They failed to do so.
As someone else pointed out, after the officials introduced the remaining properly inflated balls in the 2nd half, the Patriots continued to crush the Colts, in more impressive fashion than in the first half when they held the supposed advantage from the underinflated balls.
Last, in my opinion as someone who plays football regularly for most of the year, this issue is overblown har har. The texture/grip of the ball's surface, if it's clean or dirty, dry or wet, and the temperature are all much more relevant to the ease of throwing, holding, and catching the ball than subtle differences in pressure.
jeff
Originally Posted By: Kruse
Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
Either the balls will filled with warmed air, which would result in less pressure once they got cold,
Or someone has a device to deflate the balls.
Given that one ball was still within limits, and the rest low, I am opting for the former...
Does not have to be big, about the size of a paperclip would be unnoticeable in a glove...
The change in temp would not affect the pressure that much.
The device to deflate the balls could be a small needle hooked to a gauge.
One ball was within limits because the kicker would rather have an overinflated ball instead of an underinflated ball, OR they just didn't have enough time to get the last one deflated.
I'm not too worried about it. It's not the first (or last) time that somebody in football got caught cheating.
If the ball was inflated to 13.0 psig @ 25ºC and the temperature was then reduced to 0º C the pressure in the ball would drop to 10.7 psig.
Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
Either the balls will filled with warmed air, which would result in less pressure once they got cold,
Or someone has a device to deflate the balls.
Given that one ball was still within limits, and the rest low, I am opting for the former...
Does not have to be big, about the size of a paperclip would be unnoticeable in a glove...
The change in temp would not affect the pressure that much.
The device to deflate the balls could be a small needle hooked to a gauge.
One ball was within limits because the kicker would rather have an overinflated ball instead of an underinflated ball, OR they just didn't have enough time to get the last one deflated.
I'm not too worried about it. It's not the first (or last) time that somebody in football got caught cheating.
If the ball was inflated to 13.0 psig @ 25ºC and the temperature was then reduced to 0º C the pressure in the ball would drop to 10.7 psig.
The Saturday Night Live press conference parodies tell you everything you need to know. Ignore all else.
Originally Posted By: redbone3
If the ball was inflated to 13.0 psig @ 25ºC and the temperature was then reduced to 0º C the pressure in the ball would drop to 10.7 psig.
Game time temp was 51F at the start and only fell to 42-43F by the end. Your scenario entails inflating them at 77F( 25 C )and the temp dropping all the way to 32F( 0 C ).
If the ball was inflated to 13.0 psig @ 25ºC and the temperature was then reduced to 0º C the pressure in the ball would drop to 10.7 psig.
Game time temp was 51F at the start and only fell to 42-43F by the end. Your scenario entails inflating them at 77F( 25 C )and the temp dropping all the way to 32F( 0 C ).
Originally Posted By: redbone3
Originally Posted By: Kruse
Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
Either the balls will filled with warmed air, which would result in less pressure once they got cold,
Or someone has a device to deflate the balls.
Given that one ball was still within limits, and the rest low, I am opting for the former...
Does not have to be big, about the size of a paperclip would be unnoticeable in a glove...
The change in temp would not affect the pressure that much.
The device to deflate the balls could be a small needle hooked to a gauge.
One ball was within limits because the kicker would rather have an overinflated ball instead of an underinflated ball, OR they just didn't have enough time to get the last one deflated.
I'm not too worried about it. It's not the first (or last) time that somebody in football got caught cheating.
If the ball was inflated to 13.0 psig @ 25ºC and the temperature was then reduced to 0º C the pressure in the ball would drop to 10.7 psig.
They also checked the Indianapolis Colts approved balls and they were all within spec. If weather is the cause then it would affect all the game balls equally +\- a little variance!
Originally Posted By: Kruse
Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
Either the balls will filled with warmed air, which would result in less pressure once they got cold,
Or someone has a device to deflate the balls.
Given that one ball was still within limits, and the rest low, I am opting for the former...
Does not have to be big, about the size of a paperclip would be unnoticeable in a glove...
The change in temp would not affect the pressure that much.
The device to deflate the balls could be a small needle hooked to a gauge.
One ball was within limits because the kicker would rather have an overinflated ball instead of an underinflated ball, OR they just didn't have enough time to get the last one deflated.
I'm not too worried about it. It's not the first (or last) time that somebody in football got caught cheating.
If the ball was inflated to 13.0 psig @ 25ºC and the temperature was then reduced to 0º C the pressure in the ball would drop to 10.7 psig.
They also checked the Indianapolis Colts approved balls and they were all within spec. If weather is the cause then it would affect all the game balls equally +\- a little variance!
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Headsmart did an experiment on footballs (sorry if this was already posted here, haven't read all this long thread). You knew somebody would! Its in line with the age-old wisdom that your car tires lose about 1 psi with every 10 degF drop in temperature.
Does anybody know if the refs checked the air pressure at room temperature or at outside air temperature 2 hours before the game?
Headsmart thinks refs were in a warm room when they checked them.
Headsmart thinks refs were in a warm room when they checked them.
Bob Kraft's was [censored] in his presser. He wants the league to apologize to the Patriots and especially to Bill Belichick and Tom Brady.
Best quote is from Sal Paolantonio of ESPN...
"As one source close to the Patriots told me, this was Robert Kraft reminding Roger Goodell who he works for"
Best quote is from Sal Paolantonio of ESPN...
"As one source close to the Patriots told me, this was Robert Kraft reminding Roger Goodell who he works for"
This "nothing event" now has a suspect.
Now widely reported that they have a Patriots staffer disppearing into a room with the balls for a bit. On video it's said.
Originally Posted By: gman2304
The NFL has concluded that the Patriots did in fact exploit an unfair advantage in last weeks AFC championship game......by playing the Colts!
Not really a fan of either but that made me laugh!
The NFL has concluded that the Patriots did in fact exploit an unfair advantage in last weeks AFC championship game......by playing the Colts!
Not really a fan of either but that made me laugh!
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