CVT fluid change and mixing oils oem vs other brands question?

[kschachn]

It would be really hard to prove, but in my case, I have an extended warranty because of the all issues they had and SOA can play the game of "not done at an authorized shop".

Does your extended warranty state that any maintenance must be performed at an authorized shop?

 

[lepa71]

Does your extended warranty state that any maintenance must be performed at an authorized shop?

I called SOA and they repeated it multiple times. I was supposed to get a call from a manager to confirm but haven't gotten it. In my manual, it states only to inspect the fluid, never replace it.

 

[Nessism1]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the Subaru CVTF-II fluid is about $17/quart. Not cheap.

 

[stwremains]

I called SOA and they repeated it multiple times. I was supposed to get a call from a manager to confirm but haven't gotten it. In my manual, it states only to inspect the fluid, never replace it.

As far as I know the USA is the only country in which this is specified as lifetime fluid and to only inspect. The implication is of course to inspect and replace if needed, which the manual also implies though not clearly.

Most if not all other countries show inspect every 30k and replace every 60k. This is much more reasonable.

Given the reports of premature issues, I will be replacing mine every 30k. Can’t hurt, can only help.

 

[nicholas]

I did not know where I would get the answer faster. My apologies.

I'm going to ask the shop to see if they would get a Subaru Fluid. It is interesting that they quoted me 10qt and said that they would do it 2 times. I see others like you reporting that it only needs 6qt. If the shop would allow me to bring my own fluid then I I would get Idemitsu CVT Transmission Fluid Type SB2-5qt CVTF New Transmission Oilbut it is only 5qt jug. Do you think I would need 6 just to be sure?

Don't apologize to some person skulking around other forums.........

That's the whole point of a forum to get information.

Post where you want it's your second most expensive asset......perhaps.

Some people are just always crusty.

 

[Nessism1]

I called SOA and they repeated it multiple times. I was supposed to get a call from a manager to confirm but haven't gotten it. In my manual, it states only to inspect the fluid, never replace it.

Does your car have a fluid health readout with Subaru's diagnostic computer. I believe Nissan's does (not that anyone should emulate Nissan CVT...anything). The fluid inspection relates to checking the onboard computer for high temperature transmission cycles, I think.

 

[supton]

Most if not all other countries show inspect every 30k and replace every 60k.

Just what is "inspect" anyhow? make sure it has fluid? proper color? send out of analysis? Am guessing it's different per OEM. But:

Given the reports of premature issues, I will be replacing mine every 30k. Can’t hurt, can only help.

That's my hot take too. For the effort of inspection, one could just replace.

i wish I could get more out on a D&F on mine (albeit it's a Corolla, different trans) but at the moment I'm just doing 2L every 10k. Little excessive but I bought it used with nearly 50k on the clock.

 

[stwremains]

Just what is "inspect" anyhow? make sure it has fluid? proper color? send out of analysis? Am guessing it's different per OEM. But:


That's my hot take too. For the effort of inspection, one could just replace.

i wish I could get more out on a D&F on mine (albeit it's a Corolla, different trans) but at the moment I'm just doing 2L every 10k. Little excessive but I bought it used with nearly 50k on the clock.

I hear you there… given that on my Crosstrek I can get half out with a drain, that’s good enough for me at 30k, maybe even at 60k, but when it gets to 90k miles I will do a drain and refill, drive 100 miles, drain and refill again, to ensure it has significantly more than half fresh fluid. The CVTs are awesome for fuel efficiency and response and smooth driving etc, but maintenance is HUGE, else it’s a much more huge repair bill caused by neglect or naivety.

 

[supton]

I hear you there… given that on my Crosstrek I can get half out with a drain, that’s good enough for me at 30k, maybe even at 60k, but when it gets to 90k miles I will do a drain and refill, drive 100 miles, drain and refill again, to ensure it has significantly more than half fresh fluid. The CVTs are awesome for fuel efficiency and response and smooth driving etc, but maintenance is HUGE, else it’s a much more huge repair bill caused by neglect or naivety.

I dunno, not sure I'd bother with that. Draining and filling half with new fluid means it's never below 50% "life remaining". This method works well for coolant, and Honda used to do similar for their 4AT's (and it seems to work well for the ones behind I4's at least).

Really comes down to cost I guess, if it's just a few bucks per quart, then no loss.

Do you plan to drop the pan and inspect the magnets? I'm not sure how much metal these transmissions shed before they implode. maybe none, in which case it's not worth the effort--that's my (current) thinking.

 

[stwremains]

I dunno, not sure I'd bother with that. Draining and filling half with new fluid means it's never below 50% "life remaining". This method works well for coolant, and Honda used to do similar for their 4AT's (and it seems to work well for the ones behind I4's at least).

Really comes down to cost I guess, if it's just a few bucks per quart, then no loss.

Do you plan to drop the pan and inspect the magnets? I'm not sure how much metal these transmissions shed before they implode. maybe none, in which case it's not worth the effort--that's my (current) thinking.

I do intend to drop the pan to clean magnet and add another magnet or two at 120k miles. The hope is to run this car to over 250k miles, so above and beyond maintenance is a god thing.

I agree that a double round of drain and fill isn’t particularly necessary… but you give me an idea, perhaps I should do that at the first service at 30k since most wear is early in its life breaking in etc… maybe I’ll ask the dealership to do a drain/fill let me drive it 40 miles at least and then come back for a drain and refill again. Makes more sense to get out more of the early mileage fluid where more wear will have been suspended in the fluid than at a later mileage.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

The differentials are very easy, and any brand of 75W90 weight GL-5 rated lubricant (Without limited slip additive! These are open differentials and do not need limited slip additive, which is a friction modifier and is not beneficial to your Subaru’s open differential operation!) can be used in both front and rear differentials. I would personally suggest using Valvoline 75W90 SynPower for both differentials. A 4 quart jug will do both differentials. Any shop can do this easily. Maybe have your local mechanic do it, or if the dealership doing the CVT is willing to do it for a fair price (under $130 is fair for both differentials parts included) it might be simpler to just have the Subaru dealership do it all at once.

Basic answer is, the differentials are no where near as precise or risky, just a general drain and refill of any GL-5 rated 75W90 differential lubricant (w/o limited slip additive as mentioned above)

Suggestion: have dealership do everything with OEM fluids if you’re happy with total cost, or just have Subaru dealership do CVT and then have your regular mechanic do the differentials, and buy the Valvoline SynPower yourself and provide it for him to use.

Valvoline SynPower SAE 75W-90 Full Synthetic Gear Oil 1 GA https://a.co/d/4ZnTM2N

limited slip additive is not a problem in open differentials and will not cause any problems

Yes valvoline synpower contains a generic limited slip additive, and is acceptable for vehicles with and without limited slip differentials.

Using a limited slip gear oil in an open differential won’t ruin it, but it can affect shift quality in a manual transmission, especially common in Subarus. This is a CVT model, so it doesn’t affect it, but the more potent friction modifiers in a dedicated limited slip gear oil can oxidize more quickly and lead to shorter effective life of the gear oil. This is why I am recommending non limited slip, or the Valvoline Synpower which is acceptable for all applications whether open or limited slip, as its formulation is non controversial.

All the LS gear oils are just fine for the automatic's differentials. I've used M1 and Walmart brand ST 75w90 with no problem.

The cheapest synthetic 75w90 GL5 will be fine in the OP's Subaru automatic diffs.

Remember that Subaru's manual transmissions are combined with the front diff, so they need GL5 protection for hypoid gears while still providing acceptable shift quality. Those transmission/diff combos need Motul Gear 300.

 

[Sayjac]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the Subaru CVTF-II fluid is about $17/quart. Not cheap.

Nissan NS3 MSRP is currently $25/qt. I do see Amazon has 5qts for ~$88, a real deal. As noted, Valvoline dedicated CVT fluid in Nissan working fine for me.

 

[JTK]

It would be really hard to prove, but in my case, I have an extended warranty because of the all issues they had and SOA can play the game of "not done at an authorized shop".

I hear you, but unless I misunderstood your original post, you intend to use Valvoline CVT fluid. This is a "suitable for use" aftermarket fluid, not a Subaru "approved" fluid. For warranty purposes, you can guarantee SOA is going to push back on CVT warranty coverage if anything other than genuine Subaru juice is used.

Having been down this road with "suitable for use" fluids in the past, all manufacturers will say they don't recommend mixing their fluid with any other fluid. This is a cover your arrse statement . It's impossible not to mix.

I never did fiddle with the CVT fluid on the two Subarus I owned with them (2012 Legacy 2.5 and a 2016 Forester 2.5). I only owned the vehicles until about 50K miles each.

I have done many CVT fluid drain/fills on Nissan products. Most recently my 2019 Pathfinder. I used Castrol Transmax Universal ATF/CVT fluid in it from just beyond it's 60K mile power train warranty until 103K when I sold it. I used OEM Nissan NS-3 blue juice from ~25K to 60K. That was back when you could mail order it for around $10/qt shipped.

The only thing I didn't like about Castrol Transmax universal ATF/CVT is it's dyed red, which is always weird for a CVT.

 

[Revving2Redline]

There is nothing wrong with Valvoline CVT fluid in your Subaru

Maybe, but there are certainly better, higher quality options. I thought Valvoline similar to Enos CVT Fluid was a bit on the thin side for a transmission that has tendency to shear down very quickly

 

[Sayjac]

...The only thing I didn't like about Castrol Transmax universal ATF/CVT is it's dyed red, which is always weird for a CVT.

Two reasons I chose Valvoline dedicated CVT fluid over Transmax for Nissan. I don't like that Transmax isn't promoted as dedicated CVT only fluid. And the second is the red tint used, more ATF like color fluid. It seems 'imo', Castrol more interested in making it appear to be an ATF than CVT fluid. That said, good know it worked well for you when you did use it for Nissan.

 

[nicholas]

Does your car have a fluid health readout with Subaru's diagnostic computer. I believe Nissan's does (not that anyone should emulate Nissan CVT...anything). The fluid inspection relates to checking the onboard computer for high temperature transmission cycles, I think.

Honda dealers also can do this for their transmissions.
Check cycles and loads

 

[lepa71]

I hear you, but unless I misunderstood your original post, you intend to use Valvoline CVT fluid. This is a "suitable for use" aftermarket fluid, not a Subaru "approved" fluid. For warranty purposes, you can guarantee SOA is going to push back on CVT warranty coverage if anything other than genuine Subaru juice is used.

Having been down this road with "suitable for use" fluids in the past, all manufacturers will say they don't recommend mixing their fluid with any other fluid. This is a cover your arrse statement . It's impossible not to mix.

I never did fiddle with the CVT fluid on the two Subarus I owned with them (2012 Legacy 2.5 and a 2016 Forester 2.5). I only owned the vehicles until about 50K miles each.

I have done many CVT fluid drain/fills on Nissan products. Most recently my 2019 Pathfinder. I used Castrol Transmax Universal ATF/CVT fluid in it from just beyond it's 60K mile power train warranty until 103K when I sold it. I used OEM Nissan NS-3 blue juice from ~25K to 60K. That was back when you could mail order it for around $10/qt shipped.

The only thing I didn't like about Castrol Transmax universal ATF/CVT is it's dyed red, which is always weird for a CVT.

I was and this Valvoline fluid is certified for subaru. It is clearly stated on the label.

 

[stwremains]

I was and this Valvoline fluid is certified for subaru. It is clearly stated on the label.

For, and “By” are really different though… as far as I know, only Idemitsu SB2 is the formulation invented BY Subaru and bottled in Subaru CVTF2 bottles as acceptable for their CVT transmissions. Any company can tout their own product as “good for” any vehicle they so choose to claim….

*amended to remove word “certified” as it was not pertinent!*

 

[lepa71]

Called another dealer and drain and refill is only $226 but if I had a turbo then it would be $300+. The appointment lady had no idea what she was talking about. She did not even ask for my car-specific model and engine. I'm trying to get a service adviser to talk to.
That other dealer does full flush at $531 but the service adviser recommended it when I would have 100K miles.

 

[kschachn]

For, and “By” are really different though… as far as I know, only the Idemitsu SB2 is certified BY Subaru as acceptable for their CVT transmissions. Any company can tout their own product as “good for” any vehicle they so choose to claim….

Certified? It says recommended, just like any other aftermarket product for most Asian vehicles.

Idemitsu CVTF Type SB2 is specifically formulated to meet and/or exceed the latest performance and protection requirements of continuously variable transmissions in Subaru vehicles. Idemitsu CVTF Type SB2 is recommended for use where CVTF II is specified.