choosing your AR-15

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You said your number one goal is for home defense and the ability for rapid fire (quick follow up shots). Then you should follow what the military and most police departments do, use a 1x non magnification red dot, preferably an Aimpoint. I've gotten 4 inch groups at 200 yards to include repeated head shots with an Aimpoint pro. You can make quick, accurate shots from 1 yard to 300+ yards with a simple red dot. No need for a scope or magnification on a home defense gun.

Now if this is going to be a plinker or hunting gun, then scope away, but for strictly defensive purposes, buy yourself an Aimpoint Pro at $360 and be done with it. Buy once, cry once. The Aimpoint is made in Sweden while the other budget optics are made in China. Which one do you want to trust your life to? Plus the Aimpoint has a battery that last for 3 plus years, just turn it on and leave it on. No other optic can do that.

My police patrol rifle is a BCM mid length lightweight with Troy back up sights, an Aimpoint Pro, blue force gear vickers sling, and Elzetta flashlight mounted in an Elzetta flashlight mount. I'm the gun guy and other guys come to me for advice. Always qualify expert with a perfect score on handgun, shotgun, and rifle.
 
The aimpoint pro seems to be a great optic, I went for the eotech because AAs are easier to find and I wanted the smaller dot. My main complaint with most of the red dots on the market is the size of the dot. Large dots and the standard front sight post just cover too much of the target for my liking, but I like to shoot out to 300 yards without magnification.

The battery life of aimpoints is awesome though.
 
I don't know how much truth there is to this, it is just something I read posted on another board earlier.

Quote:

I know it will be a range toy and not a battlefield rifle but here is a quote from a military guy about Aimpoint. I have also heard similar from military friends I know:


"Aimpoint has earned the trust of some guys in procurement who keep issuing them to us. For ten years I have repeatedly ripped every Aimpoint the army has issued me off my rifle. They either lose the ability to keep their zero or something happens to the battery compartment. Early designs we got in 2004 actually rotated in the mountings despite our armorer’s best efforts. I won’t advertise what we did use because everyone goes their own way. Also an issue which doesn’t seem to be reported in the civilian media is the battery life. They do not last for years, or even one year. They can last awhile but they go dim before they go out and the power consumption just rises when soldiers turn up the brightness to get what they still can out of them. More than once I’ve seen a soldier take his Aimpoint off his weapon on patrol and flip up his back up sight. Just thought people might like to know that Aimpoint’s vaunted military reputation is so much bunk with the guys who actually go out and get into fights.

PS- Because I can already hear it, the problem was and is widespread. Every time I come into contact with these things on a unit level scale there are easily double the number of Aimpoints breaking than anything else the Army has out there that day."
 
Originally Posted By: AVB
I don't know how much truth there is to this, it is just something I read posted on another board earlier.

Quote:

I know it will be a range toy and not a battlefield rifle but here is a quote from a military guy about Aimpoint. I have also heard similar from military friends I know:


"Aimpoint has earned the trust of some guys in procurement who keep issuing them to us. For ten years I have repeatedly ripped every Aimpoint the army has issued me off my rifle. They either lose the ability to keep their zero or something happens to the battery compartment. Early designs we got in 2004 actually rotated in the mountings despite our armorer’s best efforts. I won’t advertise what we did use because everyone goes their own way. Also an issue which doesn’t seem to be reported in the civilian media is the battery life. They do not last for years, or even one year. They can last awhile but they go dim before they go out and the power consumption just rises when soldiers turn up the brightness to get what they still can out of them. More than once I’ve seen a soldier take his Aimpoint off his weapon on patrol and flip up his back up sight. Just thought people might like to know that Aimpoint’s vaunted military reputation is so much bunk with the guys who actually go out and get into fights.

PS- Because I can already hear it, the problem was and is widespread. Every time I come into contact with these things on a unit level scale there are easily double the number of Aimpoints breaking than anything else the Army has out there that day."


There is some truth to this. Basically, lots of milatary hardware is old, not well maintained, and banged around year in and year out. These items have a usable shelf like just like everything else out there.

There are three company's red dots in widespread use by the military: Aimpoint, Eotech, and Trijicon.

Based on my experiences and knowledge of these units, the Eotech has the absolute worst reputation. They have short battery life, and have a battery orientation issue. The batteries were in line with the rifles recoil which caused the battery compartment springs to become compressed and damaged. They redesigned there units to put the batteries 90 degrees from rifle recoil and the newer units are much better. They still suffer from short battery life though.

The Aimpoint batteries do last for several years. I can vouch for that personally. One should get in a habit of changing the batteries about every two years just from a preventative maintenance standpoint.

The Trijicon Acog units are very nice, high quality units too. They also cost about $1000 each.

For a plinker or self defense rifle, you really cant go wrong with a modern EoTech or Aimpoint. I personally have owned both, and would recommend the Aimpoint Pro. The Aimpoint Pro is identical to the Aimpoint Comp M3, but with a lower price tag and an included mount.
 
I was aware of the battery compartment issues on some of the EoTechs, but that was the first I had heard of the Aimpoints getting beat up like that. I wanted an ACOG bad, but didn't want full time magnification or the $1300 price tag.
 
All three of them is too expensive for me. I'd rather get a knock off brand and toss it away if it loses zero. There are some brands that are decent for the average shooter.

Usually I get Tru-Glo myself. They appear to do pretty good:)

Durango
 
Thank you all so much for the responces, I ended up ordering a Lucid HD7 red dot and LOVE IT ! I spent around 20 minutes on Saturday zeroing this optic to my PSA, and was using a bi-pod and sandbag and was easily making 2-3 inch grouping at 100yrds across my yard. @ 25 yards i was cutting the same hole over and over in the bullseye..

I invited a good group of shooting friends over Sunday and we threw together a carbine course with the longest shot being around 50 yards, serveral obsticles and several sitting, laying shots, we also ran the clock.. My PSA with the Lucid HD7 was the hands down favorite of 8 AR platform guns on hand.

I would highly recomend that optic to ANYONE looking for a great red dot at a reasonable price. I got mine through Optics Planet and got a pretty good discount as re-peat customer.
 
Originally Posted By: OtisBlkR1
I ended up ordering a Lucid HD7 red dot and LOVE IT !


FAIL. You were only $100 away from a used Aimpoint Pro from the internet classifieds at AR15.com, M4Carbine.net, and many others. Better luck next time.

I've seen used Aimpoint C2's, C3's, M2's, M3's for as little as $240-$250.

Aimpoint Micro torture test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUgzlF_4XUs
 
I don't know that I would call his choice a FAIL...the Lucid looks like a pretty nice sight...

Personally, I would have to try both before rendering judgement.

I have my eye on the EOTech XPS-2 - the battery case issue is solved with the transverse mount...and I don't see the CR-123 being an issue...
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: OtisBlkR1
I ended up ordering a Lucid HD7 red dot and LOVE IT !


FAIL. You were only $100 away from a used Aimpoint Pro from the internet classifieds at AR15.com, M4Carbine.net, and many others. Better luck next time.

I've seen used Aimpoint C2's, C3's, M2's, M3's for as little as $240-$250.

Aimpoint Micro torture test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUgzlF_4XUs



Have you used, looked through, tried a Lucid ? I handled a EOtech (nice but stupid expensive) Aimpoint (also nice but again expensive) Trijicon ACOG (silly expensive for home use) ALL at my local indy shop, and let me tell you im beyond satisfied with my Lucid.. saying i "FAILED" is pretty silly unless you own this optic and have reason to "Fail" it. so do you ?

Im happy with my purchase. my weapon is shooting straight and true, and it was the talk of the shoot on Sunday with several AR owners commenting that they liked mine so much they could not believe i gave less than $200 for it.. it does exactly what i want it to do, and i now have a package that fits the bill perfectly that i was after at the start of this thread.
 
I don't really think 2x the cost of budget conscious gear is "silly expensive" for military proven products. But your sight is probably fine for your uses.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
I don't really think 2x the cost of budget conscious gear is "silly expensive" for military proven products. But your sight is probably fine for your uses.


Hatt, I refered to the Trijicaon ACOG as "silly expensive" the Trijicon ACOG's i priced were $1,1xx and up.. If you know where one might buy a Trijicon ACOG for 2x the budget Lucid i purchased for $185 or roughly $370.00 i would gladly buy one as (as you mentioned) they are clearly militairy proven optics.. please provide a link to a $370.00 ACOG so i can purchase.
 
My bad, I meant to put "stupid expensive" that you had on the EO since you're differentiating between silly and stupid expensive. Also please classify what a Schmidt & Bender Short Dot would be classified on the expensive range. Infinitely silly expensive?
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
My bad, I meant to put "stupid expensive" that you had on the EO since you're differentiating between silly and stupid expensive. Also please classify what a Schmidt & Bender Short Dot would be classified on the expensive range. Infinitely silly expensive?


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THE Schmidt is a dream... no silly words, just a dream. Eotechs at $400.00 and aimpoints at $400.00 were being compaired to the Lucid in fit and finish in alot of reviews, and at half the price it was simply to tempting not to give it a try.. Im glad i did, The lucid is a very good optic and i have zero regrets on purchasing it. Of course there are fancier and more expensive out there.. but at $200 this ones fitting the bill perfectly and im happy, If i were in the least bit unsatisfied i would return it and pony up the money for the next in line.. and like i mentioned ive handled them all now, All things considered at $200 bucks the lucid is a steal.
 
I bet in less than a year you will have sold your Lucid, found the extra money in the couch cushions and bought an Aimpoint or Eotech.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
I bet in less than a year you will have sold your Lucid, found the extra money in the couch cushions and bought an Aimpoint or Eotech.


what are you basing you opinion on ? There was a EOtech on a DPMS at the Carbine course and i outshot him with my rig.. Im not sure exactly what model he had.. it was a nice optic, but i was no more impressed with it than mine. why pay more ?
 
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