I wrote down the car's mileage when I installed the Fram XG. I intend to run it several OCIs. Maybe up to 10,000 miles even.
Changing filter every other OCI
- Thread starter otis24
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IMO...2 or 3 OCI's with M1 extended performance, Fram Ultra, Bosch Distance+. K&N racing, Royal Purple, NAPA/WIX Synthetic, Purolator Synthetic.....etc. Heavy Duty build and excellent filtration allow these filters to go the distance.
IMO....That's 2 or 3 dry starts missed which is saving engine wear on the start up. The longer the filter is run, in a clean engine, the better the filtration.
Not all filters are created equal....
IMO....That's 2 or 3 dry starts missed which is saving engine wear on the start up. The longer the filter is run, in a clean engine, the better the filtration.
Not all filters are created equal....
Originally Posted By: BigD1
I am so tight I squeak when I walk. Changing the oil filter each and every oil change is something I don't mind spending my money on. By not changing the filter, and leaving dirty oil in it, it's like taking a bath, and then putting skid marked underwear back on.
Every single vehicle on the road with an oil cooler faces that as a forgone conclusion anyway. Don't see any of them exploding.
I am so tight I squeak when I walk. Changing the oil filter each and every oil change is something I don't mind spending my money on. By not changing the filter, and leaving dirty oil in it, it's like taking a bath, and then putting skid marked underwear back on.
Every single vehicle on the road with an oil cooler faces that as a forgone conclusion anyway. Don't see any of them exploding.
My only concern would be that I run DI engines (2 Ecoboost 3.5's) and the oil filter holds at least a half quart of oil in them (FL500S) and I run the OLM so the oil in the filter may be diluted and sheared quite a bit at change time.
Just seems simpler for me to just change the filter too.
Just seems simpler for me to just change the filter too.
Originally Posted By: macarose
Thank you for keeping that Beretta in good service. I still miss seeing those models in my neck of the woods.
All the best!
Steven Lang
My first car was a corsica, mom drove this one. Kind of a family relic. Needed a new rad a couple weeks ago, needs paint and EVERYTHING cosmetic, but runs good.
Thank you for keeping that Beretta in good service. I still miss seeing those models in my neck of the woods.
All the best!
Steven Lang
My first car was a corsica, mom drove this one. Kind of a family relic. Needed a new rad a couple weeks ago, needs paint and EVERYTHING cosmetic, but runs good.
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Filters are just too cheap to run for multiple OCI's.
Just my take on it.
Running 20,000 miles on an oil filter takes a Herculean leap of faith in filter manufacturers.
QC is for oil filters is pretty high but not perfect.
+1 The best filters on the market run what, $9? Change it out with each OCI.
Also, suppose the filter is defective or a problem occurs and the filter is running in bypass. Would you know? Instead of getting that puppy out at 5/6/7k/etc. with each OCI you have now left it on there for 20k miles. To me, it's not worth the money saved.
Filters are just too cheap to run for multiple OCI's.
Just my take on it.
Running 20,000 miles on an oil filter takes a Herculean leap of faith in filter manufacturers.
QC is for oil filters is pretty high but not perfect.
+1 The best filters on the market run what, $9? Change it out with each OCI.
Also, suppose the filter is defective or a problem occurs and the filter is running in bypass. Would you know? Instead of getting that puppy out at 5/6/7k/etc. with each OCI you have now left it on there for 20k miles. To me, it's not worth the money saved.
Originally Posted By: skaughtz
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Filters are just too cheap to run for multiple OCI's.
Just my take on it.
Running 20,000 miles on an oil filter takes a Herculean leap of faith in filter manufacturers.
QC is for oil filters is pretty high but not perfect.
+1 The best filters on the market run what, $9? Change it out with each OCI.
Also, suppose the filter is defective or a problem occurs and the filter is running in bypass. Would you know? Instead of getting that puppy out at 5/6/7k/etc. with each OCI you have now left it on there for 20k miles. To me, it's not worth the money saved.
This ^^^^^^
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Filters are just too cheap to run for multiple OCI's.
Just my take on it.
Running 20,000 miles on an oil filter takes a Herculean leap of faith in filter manufacturers.
QC is for oil filters is pretty high but not perfect.
+1 The best filters on the market run what, $9? Change it out with each OCI.
Also, suppose the filter is defective or a problem occurs and the filter is running in bypass. Would you know? Instead of getting that puppy out at 5/6/7k/etc. with each OCI you have now left it on there for 20k miles. To me, it's not worth the money saved.
This ^^^^^^
The cheapness in this forum lately is making me cringe!
Seems the goal is to save $3 per filter (buy the cheapest) and run oil to 20,000 miles.
So, in other words, the cheapskates on this forum save 5-10 dollars a year by skimping on a maintenance item that is done twice a year at most.(rolls eyes)
Seems the goal is to save $3 per filter (buy the cheapest) and run oil to 20,000 miles.
So, in other words, the cheapskates on this forum save 5-10 dollars a year by skimping on a maintenance item that is done twice a year at most.(rolls eyes)
Originally Posted By: aircooled
The cheapness in this forum lately is making me cringe!
Seems the goal is to save $3 per filter (buy the cheapest) and run oil to 20,000 miles.
So, in other words, the cheapskates on this forum save 5-10 dollars a year by skimping on a maintenance item that is done twice a year at most.(rolls eyes)
It's not a bad idea since the filter can become more efficient as it loads up. Plus in the Honda owners manual it states to change the filter every other oci. Have a nice day.
The cheapness in this forum lately is making me cringe!
Seems the goal is to save $3 per filter (buy the cheapest) and run oil to 20,000 miles.
So, in other words, the cheapskates on this forum save 5-10 dollars a year by skimping on a maintenance item that is done twice a year at most.(rolls eyes)
It's not a bad idea since the filter can become more efficient as it loads up. Plus in the Honda owners manual it states to change the filter every other oci. Have a nice day.
dnewton3
Staff member
Don't confuse cheapness with a search for good ROI.
There are LOTS of examples of folks that extend OCIs and FCIs and have perfectly functioning vehicles, and data to back it up.
Whereas you see "cheapness", many of us see wanton waste.
The OEM cycles are typically set first and foremost to protect their exposure to any warranty claim. It is the best of both worlds for them; less claims and they don't pay for the maintenance items. They don't care if you throw away perfectly serviceable products; it costs them nothing as assures them a very high degree of success in warranty avoidance.
If you choose to stick with OEM cycles, it's likely that nothing bad will happen to your equipment. Those who chose to extend CIs, as long as we do so with good control, data and verification of safe operation, will experience the same safe effect as you, but save money.
To each his own. But your view of "cheap" is opposite of our view of "waste".
There are LOTS of examples of folks that extend OCIs and FCIs and have perfectly functioning vehicles, and data to back it up.
Whereas you see "cheapness", many of us see wanton waste.
The OEM cycles are typically set first and foremost to protect their exposure to any warranty claim. It is the best of both worlds for them; less claims and they don't pay for the maintenance items. They don't care if you throw away perfectly serviceable products; it costs them nothing as assures them a very high degree of success in warranty avoidance.
If you choose to stick with OEM cycles, it's likely that nothing bad will happen to your equipment. Those who chose to extend CIs, as long as we do so with good control, data and verification of safe operation, will experience the same safe effect as you, but save money.
To each his own. But your view of "cheap" is opposite of our view of "waste".
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Originally Posted By: aircooled
The cheapness in this forum lately is making me cringe!
Seems the goal is to save $3 per filter (buy the cheapest) and run oil to 20,000 miles.
Please show us where the goal is to buy a $3 filter and run the oil to 20K.
I have yet to see anyone here recommend or make that a "goal" as you say..
Stop blowing air out your rear dude.
The cheapness in this forum lately is making me cringe!
Seems the goal is to save $3 per filter (buy the cheapest) and run oil to 20,000 miles.
Please show us where the goal is to buy a $3 filter and run the oil to 20K.
I have yet to see anyone here recommend or make that a "goal" as you say..
Stop blowing air out your rear dude.
A guy from Ford ran a single charge synthetic oil for 100,000 miles, in a carbed car, in the seventies! Took samples every now and then. The engine didn't blew out. A little make up, of course. The filter had to be changed before the oil. I belive oil filter can go 3-4 years and about 30k miles easily, unless there's too much crud and you put synthetic in a mostly dino ran car. The cleaning could overhelm the filter capacity. But you'll note that easily when you'd get startup knocks. Now a bunch of ruptures in filter media posted on the internet, I don't buy it. Really, some are tool, man, made, IMO.
https://books.google.com.br/books?id=FAE...ine&f=false
100k miles run single oil charge, at page 95 of the mag.
Is it good for 25, 50 or 100 k miles?
When I see modern engines running 10-15 k miles UOAs, I know beforehand that, unless there's a problem with that engine, the analises would come out ok. I think some of you guys could do longer than 25k runs with oil and filter, backed up by your UOAs.
I personally use synthetic for 20k miles, but with 5k replacements with previous charges, that I keep setlling for months to get rid of specs and harmfull particles.
https://books.google.com.br/books?id=FAE...ine&f=false
100k miles run single oil charge, at page 95 of the mag.
Is it good for 25, 50 or 100 k miles?
When I see modern engines running 10-15 k miles UOAs, I know beforehand that, unless there's a problem with that engine, the analises would come out ok. I think some of you guys could do longer than 25k runs with oil and filter, backed up by your UOAs.
I personally use synthetic for 20k miles, but with 5k replacements with previous charges, that I keep setlling for months to get rid of specs and harmfull particles.
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VW, Honda, Chrysler and ? did a long term scientific study of oil filters and the data, yielded the result that as the filter loading went up the efficiency went up. That study resulted in many engine makers to recommend 2X oil changes per filter. If the manufacture of my vehicle had tested and recommended the 2X/oil change, I'd follow it. From this type of real data, I feel it is not being cheap but, foolish to dump good filters early in life when the efficiency is still improving. Ed
I have owned, 76 Ford Econoline Van, 79 Malibu, 83 GM Van, 85 GM Van,94 GM Van,92 Dodge Shadow, 92 Plymouth Acclaim, 96-98-99 Dodge minivans and all of them called for oil filter change every second oil change. This is old school, nothing new.
Here's the post which talks about Honda's findings from their own internal testing of oil filters. Again, I personally wouldn't run a single oil filter longer than 10k miles, but will it be harmful to do so? Most likely not.
Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
I mentioned in another Honda oil filter thread that I recently met someone who worked at Honda's engine plant in Columbus, OH. I had the opportunity to talk with him briefly this weekend about the reasoning for Honda's recommendation of using an oil filter for two oil change intervals. While he wasn't an official Honda employee at the plant, he did work for the company that provided the testing equipment for the engines and was permanently placed inside the plant to be able to troubleshoot any issues as they arise. Therefore, he was there as the testing was being conducted and saw everything with his own eyes as it happened and was able to discuss with Honda's engineers the various results and reasoning behind their decisions.
The first thing he told me was that Honda's testing showed that in a clean, properly functioning engine, the OE Honda filter can go two OCIs according to the MM without any issues. In fact, the testing proved that the filter can hold up to three OCIs before any potential issue crop up. The main one of those issues was the potential of the filter media to break down and dislodge from the filter. He stated that this was a very rare occurrence, but a possibility none the less.
With testing proving that the filter can go multiple OCIs, the reason that Honda recommends doing so is because they want to be viewed as an environmentally conscience company. Simply, they don't want a filter that can be run another OC to be wasted, so they recommend using it another go around. I see the logic with this, as across the large number of cars they sell every year it would cut the amount of old filters to be recycled/trashed in half.
Now the disclaimers. He also said that Honda knows full well that very few of their dealers actually follow the recommendation and change the filter every OC. Honda has no say in that practice, and they've found out that the major reason most dealers do this is to reduce any chance of a problem under warranty. The dealers figured out that warranty claims early in a car's life leads their customer to buy a different brand down the road, so anything they can do to get a repeat customer they do it. This is probably why Honda turns a blind eye to the practice, even though the data says otherwise.
And for the record, he also said that even though he's seen the data as proof, he still changes the filter in his personal cars every OC simply because even though they are under warranty the $8 cost of a new filter is a good investment compared to having to be without a car if anything would happen. I can't blame him for thinking this way even in the face of hard data saying otherwise, as I wouldn't want my family to be without the current vehicle if it had to sit at the dealer for weeks waiting to be fixed.
I think this is the closest we'll ever get to an official word from Honda why the recommend what they do for filters. He asked me not to use his name or what company he worked for, but was perfectly fine with posting on the internet what he had seen and heard during the testing process.
Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
I mentioned in another Honda oil filter thread that I recently met someone who worked at Honda's engine plant in Columbus, OH. I had the opportunity to talk with him briefly this weekend about the reasoning for Honda's recommendation of using an oil filter for two oil change intervals. While he wasn't an official Honda employee at the plant, he did work for the company that provided the testing equipment for the engines and was permanently placed inside the plant to be able to troubleshoot any issues as they arise. Therefore, he was there as the testing was being conducted and saw everything with his own eyes as it happened and was able to discuss with Honda's engineers the various results and reasoning behind their decisions.
The first thing he told me was that Honda's testing showed that in a clean, properly functioning engine, the OE Honda filter can go two OCIs according to the MM without any issues. In fact, the testing proved that the filter can hold up to three OCIs before any potential issue crop up. The main one of those issues was the potential of the filter media to break down and dislodge from the filter. He stated that this was a very rare occurrence, but a possibility none the less.
With testing proving that the filter can go multiple OCIs, the reason that Honda recommends doing so is because they want to be viewed as an environmentally conscience company. Simply, they don't want a filter that can be run another OC to be wasted, so they recommend using it another go around. I see the logic with this, as across the large number of cars they sell every year it would cut the amount of old filters to be recycled/trashed in half.
Now the disclaimers. He also said that Honda knows full well that very few of their dealers actually follow the recommendation and change the filter every OC. Honda has no say in that practice, and they've found out that the major reason most dealers do this is to reduce any chance of a problem under warranty. The dealers figured out that warranty claims early in a car's life leads their customer to buy a different brand down the road, so anything they can do to get a repeat customer they do it. This is probably why Honda turns a blind eye to the practice, even though the data says otherwise.
And for the record, he also said that even though he's seen the data as proof, he still changes the filter in his personal cars every OC simply because even though they are under warranty the $8 cost of a new filter is a good investment compared to having to be without a car if anything would happen. I can't blame him for thinking this way even in the face of hard data saying otherwise, as I wouldn't want my family to be without the current vehicle if it had to sit at the dealer for weeks waiting to be fixed.
I think this is the closest we'll ever get to an official word from Honda why the recommend what they do for filters. He asked me not to use his name or what company he worked for, but was perfectly fine with posting on the internet what he had seen and heard during the testing process.
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Originally Posted By: tig1
Why add clean oil to the old oil that is left in the filter? Now if your engine is of no real value to you, then save the few bucks a filter cost.
In all honesty, the amount of dirty oil remaining in the oil pan, various oil galleries, etc.. is probably equal to, or greater than, the amount of dirty oil that would be left in your average oil filter.
You're never going to get 100% clean, fresh oil in your engine at any oil change, even with a new filter. Provided your filter is of sound construction (read "not a [censored] sub-par filter"), odds are good it can handle running multiple OCIs. I have no doubt that a Fram Ultra filter could run 2 or 3 OCIs in my car, without reaching its limits.
... A $2 pronto filter, not so much. If I ran these, they'd get changed at every OCI.
Why add clean oil to the old oil that is left in the filter? Now if your engine is of no real value to you, then save the few bucks a filter cost.
In all honesty, the amount of dirty oil remaining in the oil pan, various oil galleries, etc.. is probably equal to, or greater than, the amount of dirty oil that would be left in your average oil filter.
You're never going to get 100% clean, fresh oil in your engine at any oil change, even with a new filter. Provided your filter is of sound construction (read "not a [censored] sub-par filter"), odds are good it can handle running multiple OCIs. I have no doubt that a Fram Ultra filter could run 2 or 3 OCIs in my car, without reaching its limits.
... A $2 pronto filter, not so much. If I ran these, they'd get changed at every OCI.
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