I am still waiting for an explanation of how changing the brake fluid protects that part of the caliper piston beyond the O-ring where any corrosion always occurs. Also how does it lend immortality to the boot?
Changing brake fluid?
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I don't even know who claimed new brake fluid would prevent corrosion of external parts. Why don't you quote that person?
Guide pin boots get a thin coating with Plastilube. Can't say I've had to replace even a boot, so far. Must be due to my high maintenance foreign vehicle.
Good points. I recall asking the service manager at my local Ford dealer(a "Blue Oval Certified" service dealer)about bleeding the brake system and replacing all the fluid. He actually told me it was a waste of time and money and that the fluid is good for the life of the truck
I would agree. A true brake job isn't complete unless the caliper kit is installed at the same time. For the extra few bucks it is almost silly not to do it if you're doing the brakes yourself. If having the brakes done by a mechanic the parts will still be relatively inexpensive but it will add an hour or maybe even 1.5 hours in labor charges to your bill. Still worth it, IMO. At least every other brake job.
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What car needs rebuilding of the calipers every two years? A Cavalier or Aspire? Must be necessary due to all that heinous salt build-up. Even funnier that my car is supposedly a PITA because I need to replace the brake fluid every two years. At least I can expect the brakes to last longer than that. I'm moving on now, shaking my head in disbelief.
Looks like it is going to be a long wait.
And quit puttting words in my mouth. I never said anything about rebuilding calipers every 2 years. If you go through a set of pads every year, after the second or 3 set would be about right.
OK the German car requires a brake fluid change with expensive equipment most people don't have every 2 years. With a cartridge oil filter, you have a couple of hard to keep in place O-rings each filter change. Remind me to keep buying Chevies even if I did get stuck with a crappy Getrag transmission.
Shake away. I don't see anything incredible about including the caliper kit install with every other brake job (approx 70K miles for me).quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
What car needs rebuilding of the calipers every two years? A Cavalier or Aspire? Must be necessary due to all that heinous salt build-up. Even funnier that my car is supposedly a PITA because I need to replace the brake fluid every two years. At least I can expect the brakes to last longer than that. I'm moving on now, shaking my head in disbelief.
But I am glad I provided you with a lighthearted laugh.
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labman, if you read my previous posts you will see that I said that parts have to be replaced as warranted. I never claimed that replacing brake fluid would prevent corrosion on external brake parts. So please, YOU should stop putting words in MY mouth, because that's all you're doing.
No, you didn't say you rebuild your calipers every two years, but you probably should, because that's the only time you change your brake fluid -- the same brake fluid that in your vehicles seems to have superior longevity.
DOT 4 brake fluids needs to be replaced every two years, if you want it to be in good condition. Doesn't matter if that DOT 4 is in a German or any other car, IT'S STILL HYGROSCOPIC AND ABSORBS MOISTURE OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE. I guess you will not accept that. Google it.
The pads and rotors on my car last about 60k miles, longer in the rear. I drive maybe 25k with that car per year. The brake gets inspected each time I rotate the tires (every 10k miles). Brake fluid is replaced as suggested every two years, expensive equipment is NOT needed. A speed bleeder is only $35, and I can do without.
I woudn't want a car that has brakes that need constant rebuilding.
I'm not sure why you bring up cartridge oil filters up? You think I got one of those or what? Yikes!
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mikep wrote:
I figured you were rebuilding your brakes every two years also. I just can't get over it that people who generally are so anal about changing their oil are possibly negligent when it comes to the brakes. I have no problem with people rebuilding their brakes or replacing parts as needed. I've said that like 5 times in this whole thread. But why wouldn't you change your brake fluid as recommended? If for YOUR vehicle the manufacturer claims it's a lifetime fluid, fine, so be it. But please don't recommend others to not change their brake fluid. Let them decide based on their manual and COMMON SENSE.
Uh, I would change the brake fluid very couple years. The service guy at the Ford dealer is the one who said the fluid is good forever...not me. I mentioned with a
And yes, I am sort of anal when it comes to maintenance and upkeep of automobiles.
I need a cold brew and a cigar.
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Agreed!! My manual says nothing about it ...and I haven't done it in decades on fine running vehicles .. so my common sense says ..I can do it ..but it's totally optional for any safety and longevity issues (I don't own Euros). If it WAS a safety issue ...it would most definitely (by now) be a well advertised requirement ..it isn't ..no domestic manufacture mentions it.
Now if I run out of other stuff to feel good about ..and I have too much time on my hands ...I'll put this on my list of feel good distractions..
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I'd just like to add the following:
DOT fluids are rated according to the Department of Traffic. Glycol-based DOT spec brake fluid (DOT 3, 4, 5.1) fluid will always absorb moisture out of the atmosphere. Fording streams and getting the brake physically wet has less to do with moisture absorption. The brake system is, after all, pretty well sealed. However, air and humidity will migrate through the brake fluid reservoir and seals and make contact with brake fluid. This is all the reason why brake fluid that is stored in an opend bottle should never be used. An indication of water in the brake fluid is color. Darkening of the fluid indicates water contamination. I wouldn't want to wait that long.
Let me quote:
Glycol based fluids are hygroscopic, meaning they absorb water. Over time, water is absorbed and the fluid's boiling point drops. A typical glycol DOT 4 fluid that starts life at 450F dry boiling fresh from the can will degrade to 300F at 12 months by just picking up 3% of its weight in water. By 24 months its likely to be well below 300F at 5% water. In modern brake systems, most of the water absorption occurs in the plastic reservoir on the master cylinder. Poly-based plastics are slightly water permeable, so even brake fluid packaged in plastic bottles is subject to water absorption.
http://www.checkthatcar.com/new_check/brake fluid.asp
The main difference between DOT 3, DOT 4, and DOT 5.1 brake fluid is the increasingly higher boiling point. The higher teh boiling point, the more water the brake fluid can absorb before the boiling point is lowered beyond critical. That means DOT 5 brake fluid can be changed a little less often than DOT 4 fluid, which will last longer than DOT 3 fluid.
[ May 07, 2004, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: moribundman ]
DOT fluids are rated according to the Department of Traffic. Glycol-based DOT spec brake fluid (DOT 3, 4, 5.1) fluid will always absorb moisture out of the atmosphere. Fording streams and getting the brake physically wet has less to do with moisture absorption. The brake system is, after all, pretty well sealed. However, air and humidity will migrate through the brake fluid reservoir and seals and make contact with brake fluid. This is all the reason why brake fluid that is stored in an opend bottle should never be used. An indication of water in the brake fluid is color. Darkening of the fluid indicates water contamination. I wouldn't want to wait that long.
Let me quote:
Glycol based fluids are hygroscopic, meaning they absorb water. Over time, water is absorbed and the fluid's boiling point drops. A typical glycol DOT 4 fluid that starts life at 450F dry boiling fresh from the can will degrade to 300F at 12 months by just picking up 3% of its weight in water. By 24 months its likely to be well below 300F at 5% water. In modern brake systems, most of the water absorption occurs in the plastic reservoir on the master cylinder. Poly-based plastics are slightly water permeable, so even brake fluid packaged in plastic bottles is subject to water absorption.
http://www.checkthatcar.com/new_check/brake fluid.asp
The main difference between DOT 3, DOT 4, and DOT 5.1 brake fluid is the increasingly higher boiling point. The higher teh boiling point, the more water the brake fluid can absorb before the boiling point is lowered beyond critical. That means DOT 5 brake fluid can be changed a little less often than DOT 4 fluid, which will last longer than DOT 3 fluid.
[ May 07, 2004, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: moribundman ]
Buy it based on the WET boiling point vs dry for street applications, and metal cans will not absorb moisture anywhere near the new (cheap) plastic fluid bottles..ATF Blue is a great fluid and easy to "see" when you've flushed system, valvoline's DOT 4 is readily availabe and I've seen the Castrol lately too...Remember: DOT 5is NOT DOT 3/4 compatible!!
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ATE Blue is not street legal. I believe I mentioned that DOT 5 fluid was silicone based in one of my insanely repetitive posts. I'm now giving up altogether.
Why is it not street legal? It exceeds DOT4 specs.
I believe Ate Super Blue is DOT 4 compliant glycol based fluid. Otherwise a whole bunch of people have contaminated their glycol systems with silicone based fluid and I would think we'd have heard of a lot of failures. I've never heard that it's not street legal? It may have to be changed more often than basic fluid. Interestingly enough, I could not find it on Ate's site: http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/com/en/ate/ate/themes/products/brake_fluid_en.html ... I'm wondering if it's been superceded.
I ran a brake line for a friend last weekend on an old work truck. Examination of the failed area clearly showed the corrosion from the outside in. The brake fluid had never been changed in the 13 year old truck. There was rusty coloring on the inside of the old line but not enough to cause rust-through problems from the inside for lines. However, I could see how the amount of rust on the inside could cause problems with honed metal surfaces that seals have to ride against.
Obviously you still want to change brake fluid for low boiling point reasons. Maybe the Europeans specify this in the manual because they use their brakes harder from higher speeds and would be more likely to wind up hitting the wet boiling point if the fluid was allowed to become wet.
I ran a brake line for a friend last weekend on an old work truck. Examination of the failed area clearly showed the corrosion from the outside in. The brake fluid had never been changed in the 13 year old truck. There was rusty coloring on the inside of the old line but not enough to cause rust-through problems from the inside for lines. However, I could see how the amount of rust on the inside could cause problems with honed metal surfaces that seals have to ride against.
Obviously you still want to change brake fluid for low boiling point reasons. Maybe the Europeans specify this in the manual because they use their brakes harder from higher speeds and would be more likely to wind up hitting the wet boiling point if the fluid was allowed to become wet.
ATE Super Blue is not DOT 4 certified only because it is blue in color, DOT wants amber apparently.
BTW most late model VW/Audi automobiles do NOT require the ABS pump to be cycled during brake fluid changes.
Also dont forget to bleed your clutch (if hydraulic).
BTW most late model VW/Audi automobiles do NOT require the ABS pump to be cycled during brake fluid changes.
Also dont forget to bleed your clutch (if hydraulic).
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Yes, for some reason the blue color makes the ATE Blue not street-legal. I speculate it may have to do with the practice of many mechanics visually inspecting the brake fluid in the master cylinder for contamination. Would be hard to see contamintaion in blue fluid. On a track/race car this is of course a non-issure, since all fluids are constantly changed anyway.
The nice thing about alternating ATE Blue with the regular amber brake fluid is that it's easy to tell when the old fluid's been completely flushed out. But it's not street-legal. Means, if you do have an accident, and if your insurance finds out, they may find a way to get out of their responsibility.
The nice thing about alternating ATE Blue with the regular amber brake fluid is that it's easy to tell when the old fluid's been completely flushed out. But it's not street-legal. Means, if you do have an accident, and if your insurance finds out, they may find a way to get out of their responsibility.
The ATE Super Blue Racing is also available in an Amber color ATE Typ 200.
The ATE Typ 200 is IDENTICAL to the ATE Super Blue Racing...except that its amber in color.
Obviously this makes for the easiest fluid changes on the face of the planet. Just buy the opposing color for each subsequent flush. Blue goes to amber, your done. Amber to blue? Done.
Works like a charm.
[ May 12, 2004, 06:57 AM: Message edited by: crossbow ]
The ATE Typ 200 is IDENTICAL to the ATE Super Blue Racing...except that its amber in color.
Obviously this makes for the easiest fluid changes on the face of the planet. Just buy the opposing color for each subsequent flush. Blue goes to amber, your done. Amber to blue? Done.
Works like a charm.
[ May 12, 2004, 06:57 AM: Message edited by: crossbow ]
i haven't had any luck with the motive product and its universal adapter kit. since the universal adapter just "rests" on top of the brake reservoir using presure you apply from the chains, i always get fluid leakage. i could tighten further, but am fearful i'd crush the plastic brake fluid reservior.
the other adapters are much better as they thread in. but they are only for fords and some european cars.
fyi, in my case, i have a 2002 toyota tundra.
the other adapters are much better as they thread in. but they are only for fords and some european cars.
fyi, in my case, i have a 2002 toyota tundra.
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