CATERHAM's influence

[45ACP]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: Capa
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: Capa
A lot of Catherham's points are mere reiterations of what Dr Haas has been saying all along.


Not sure this is the case. For example Haas pays little attention to the HTHS # but instead relying on the traditional kinematic viscosity statistics. By comparison CATERHAM as you know focuses greatly on the HTHS stat and relegates the 100C and 40C viscosity numbers to the back burner.


There are some differences and i am in no way indicating that they agree on everything but the similarities are glaring.


If the glaring similarity is "as thin as possible, as thick as necessary" then many on BITOG are like CATERHAM and HAAS?


+1, when you read Dr. Ali E. Haas's non-skin surgery work and defer to his "expertise" on Motor Oil (think about that) you should know that he doesnt fully understand the correlation between HTHS and SAE grading. So, when you read his stiff and see "W-20 in Lamborghini and 0W-30 in Ferrari," you can see that he isnt TOO far off the mark when you realize that his 0W-20 has a HTHS of 3.5 and the 0W-30 a similar, very much higher than the SAE system. i say this because when you read through his stuff and you hear about him talking abou t the "thin oil" you might get the impression that its sensationalist.. but realize that he is not talking about TOO TOO much thinner oil, or thin oil in SAE name only (he gets it wrong, or the manufacturers do? Or SAE does?).. and it makes more sense, and isnt as dismissable. He makes some good and interesting points, though he believes that cars have oil squirters when a lot dont.....

Also, Haas drives like an old grandma his world-class super and hypercars so that has a lot to do with it too. his "oil temps" are very VERY low... and CATERHAM has interesting theory about how even thin oils like Haas could be good on the track.

That said. MOST of the time, going as thin as you can is better. Exceptions would be: 1. "Problem" engines, 2. Engines that documentedly like thick HTHS oils (*cough* BMW M3* *cough* Porsche 997/anything.)*

He isnt a quack he is just richer than us all. Also, weird.

 

[45ACP]

Originally Posted By: Tim H.
So all in all, with that being said, who is right?


Thats why the site is here.. because everybody is.

If there were "right" and "wrong" answers the site wouldnt be needed.. this site is all about opinions, alternate opinions, scientific opinions, user opinions, marketing opinions, and real world and theoretical opinions, so.

 

[dparm]

45ACP, Haas does NOT drive like an old lady. He has posted about how he intentionally drives his Maybach around in 1st and 2nd gear only just to hear the engine sound.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: dparm
45ACP, Haas does NOT drive like an old lady. He has posted about how he intentionally drives his Maybach around in 1st and 2nd gear only just to hear the engine sound.


But that doesn't bring up oil temps.

 

[wiswind]

I enjoy reading Caterham's posts because he shows a lot of common sense and thought in what he says.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: dparm
45ACP, Haas does NOT drive like an old lady. He has posted about how he intentionally drives his Maybach around in 1st and 2nd gear only just to hear the engine sound.


But that doesn't bring up oil temps.


Possibly, but I don't want people to think this car is creeping around at 10mph in gridlock.

 

[virginoil]

The fact is whether 10w30, 5w30, 5w20, 0w20 OEMs design the engines to cope with very poor maintenance and servicing routines and still return the owner with respectable mileage over the life of the vehicle.

Not enough credence or respect for OEMs opinions and requirements on this site.

 

[DaryleWB]

I find Caterham's posts informative and interesting. He certainly knows more about oil theory than I do, as many people on this site do. I've learned a lot from him and many others.

That said, I do think that it is possible to worry too much about something and fall prey to self-doubt. When I used conventional 10W-30 oils in the 1980s, my car engines always outlasted the body or my attention span, which is generally about 200K+ miles. I never had an engine fail.
When I started using synthetic 10W-30 oils, they still lasted 200K miles plus and I still never had one fail before I binned the vehicle for another one. Now I am using synthetic 5w-30 and a bio SAE30 on my two vehicles. One has 166k miles and the other, I estimate, has somewhere more than 120K. (Odometer died at 67K miles, many, many owners ago. I've yet to fix it.
I suspect they engines will last well past 200K miles in these vehicles too.

 

[3xSHO]

What would a 50/50 blend of the Toyota 0W-20 and M1 0W-40 give as far as VI, weight, etc? Middle weight 0W30?

 

[cp3]

With SN M1 you should be around 200 VI, 52.9 40C, 10.7 100C & 3.1 HTHS.

SM should get you 201 VI, 54.7 40C, 11.1 100C & 3.1.

 

[pscholte]

Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr
Originally Posted By: teddyboy
I've seen CATERHAM state several times that syn 10W30 was an obsolete grade. With my last oil change I used the remainder of my M1 HM 10W30 so tonight in Wally World I bought the M1 HM 5W30. I must admit some congnitive dissonance buying the 5W30. Years ago I learned that you should buy the narrowest range suitable for your climate to minimize the VII. I realize that it probably doens't make much difference in NC. Nevertheless, it is yet another example of BITOG impacting oil habits.


Or you are forgetting how to think for yourself. It happens, lots of people like to do what others do as they feel it must be right if others do it.


Humility is such a forgotten personality trait.

 

[pscholte]

PS The tone and grammatical quality of this thread made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

 

[Garak]

You can wash that taste out with a little gargle of green GC.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr


Or you are forgetting how to think for yourself. It happens, lots of people like to do what others do as they feel it must be right if others do it.


That's peer pressure alright.

In the climate I drive, there is hardly any difference between 0W30 and 10W30. Wait, 0W30 is actually thicker (GC).

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

In the climate I drive, there is hardly any difference between 0W30 and 10W30. Wait, 0W30 is actually thicker (GC).

That isn't exactly true is it?
There may not be much difference on a hot 100F summer day but even Florida can have has cool evenings and winter days.

BTW, GC (HTHSV 3.5cP) is heavier than most PCMO 10W-30s at operating temp's but not on start-up. Compared to M1 10W-30, about the lightest 10W-30 you can buy, it's still lighter at temp's as high as 85F.
Even M1 0W-40 is lighter than M1 10W-30 at 50F.

A more appropriate comparison would be to a 5W-30 which is typically about 15% lighter at room temp's and 30% at 32F.
The point is, when it comes to synthetic oils the 5W-30 grade has rendered the 10W-30 grade technically obsolete evidenced by the fact that virtually no manufacturer spec's a PCMO 10W-30 in NA any longer and never a 10W-30 syn'.

Having said that, for hot summertime use and long distance driving where the advantages of a higher VI oil are minimized I can see how picking an "obsolete" syn 10W-30 on sale for less than a dino can be very appealing. But I don't think there are many well informed BITOG members now that would consider paying anywhere near full price for a 10W-30.

 

[pscholte]

Originally Posted By: Garak
You can wash that taste out with a little gargle of green GC.

That is SO true. Does leave you with green teeth though...