CATERHAM's influence

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Originally Posted By: JAG
Most OTC 5W-30 synthetics still have more polymeric VIIs than their 10W-30 counterparts but the difference is not very big. I believe the best choice depends on the situation: engine, driving habits, climate, etc.

In theory a typical GP III 10W-30 syn' may be slightly more shear stable than it's 5W-30 counterpart but the trade off is usually a massively lower VI which to my way of thinking simply isn't worth it. If you need a heavier 30wt oil choose a heavier 5W-30 or even 0W-30 oil with a higher HTHSV rating and leave the 10W-30 syn on the shelf. This way you won't be significantly raising the start-up viscosity (even in the summer) of the oil you're using which is what happens with every 10W-30 syn'.

There has been a lot of progress in the past 10 years or so in motor oil quality, specifically with regard to VIIs. This has allowed for a steady increase in the viscosity indexes of motor oil. The 10W-30 oil grade with it's typical 140 range VI is yesterdays oil grade; for all intend and purposes it is obsolete. For example M1 10W-30, a very light 30wt oil with it's HTHSV of 3.0cP is heavier than M1 0W-40 and PU 5W-40 on start-up at temp's as high as 50F.

The two main reasons the 10W-30 grade still exists is because it's cheaper to make than a 5W-30 (higher margin) although it rarely ever sells at a discount to the 5W-30 grade, and people continue to buy it largely out of ignorance.
 
Originally Posted By: webfors
If I lived where it was warm, I would use 10w30 year round and not think twice about it. Now if I could buy a good 0w30 for the same price, I would probably do that and reap the marginal benefits
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The 10W30 and 5W30 M1HM are the exact same price so I view what I'm doing as what you suggest: reaping the marginal benefit. Nevertheless, it's a significant move for me as it marks a willingness to change decades of behaviour based upon new information.
 
Why does it ALWAYS have to be one or the other?

10W30 is appropriate sometimes and many times it isn't?

Make the appropriate choice.

It's a frickin' DECISION, not an ARGUMENT!
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Why does it ALWAYS have to be one or the other?
10W30 is appropriate sometimes and many times it isn't?
Make the appropriate choice.

But Jim my point is, when it comes to synthetic PCMOs (and HDEO outside of the US) no one has to settle for a 140 VI oil today which is what a 10W-30 oil is.
The grade is obsolete as it no longer offers no advantage over a 5W-30 or even a 0W-30 in some cases.
 
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
BITOG does do that! I used 10w30 in everything for decades before I got on here LOL. Caterham has been great to learn from, very knowledgeable yet not condescending. A+ guy.


Tonight he told me I had no business commenting on somebody's post. My comment was "anti thin oil". How dare I....


What thread was that?
 
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I too just switched to 5w30 year-round largely on Caterham's advice. I was planning to switch to 5w30 for winter-only, but, hey, why have unnecessarily thick oil on a cold start any time of the year?
 
Originally Posted By: rcy
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
BITOG does do that! I used 10w30 in everything for decades before I got on here LOL. Caterham has been great to learn from, very knowledgeable yet not condescending. A+ guy.

Tonight he told me I had no business commenting on somebody's post. My comment was "anti thin oil". How dare I....


What thread was that?

I didn't say "he had no business commenting......", I just corrected him that the thread was about the lightest 30wt on start-up which is not the same thing. But you decide:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2501969&page=3
 
Well down here in AL I run 10w30 in the winter in my Jeep 4.0l and will go to a HDEO, probably 15w40 for the summer. It does fine on all those oils. Granted it has 123,000 plus and is just now broken in and running good and the engine loves the 10w and 15w oils. It also loves the climate here in AL.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: rcy
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
BITOG does do that! I used 10w30 in everything for decades before I got on here LOL. Caterham has been great to learn from, very knowledgeable yet not condescending. A+ guy.

Tonight he told me I had no business commenting on somebody's post. My comment was "anti thin oil". How dare I....


What thread was that?

I didn't say "he had no business commenting......", I just corrected him that the thread was about the lightest 30wt on start-up which is not the same thing. But you decide:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2501969&page=3


No need for me to even read the thread, as it certainly didn't appear as something you would post, hence my asking which thread it appeared in.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Itslimjim you're joking right?

Even the lightest 0W-20 is too thick on start-up in ALL engines, and even 130F is a cold start to an engine.


I was trying to make the point that engines still 'work' on 10w-30.

I'd be curious to find out what has more of an impact on startup 'wear': a fault ADBV or thick oil?

And by thick I mean, a 10w-30 that could use a light 0w-30, for simplicity of the discussion.
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CATERHAM influenced BITOG like Caravaggio influenced other tenebrosi artists. New Era has downed upon some folks with poor arithmetic skills and lack of training. With all due respect for the tremendous effort, hisapproach it is too linear and unidirectional, but it is largely harmless for his followers. This was not meant as an attack in any way..
 
All I know is I'm loving the easy starts this winter with the AFE 0w30 and will be running this oil again through the summer (got a second jug waiting downstairs with a P1) during which time the Subaru gets worked like a field horse (thousands of KM's of full load family tripping with 1500 pound trailer).

I would like to see AFE have a higher VI (see... caterham is even getting to us longer term bitogers)... curious why we don't see an 0w30 with a higher VI.
 
Originally Posted By: cp3
PC 0w30 is higher at 177 vs 166. Or are you talking ultra high like the Toyota 0w20?


More curious why so many 5w30's have higher VI's than this particular 0w30, however when you look at the MRV at -40, it's a solid cold weather performer. What this tells me is there's more to the story than VI's.
 
I think part of the reason is that no one spec's a light 30wt oil at least not for any vehicle sold in NA.
One solution is to make your own ultra high VI 0W-30.
A 2/1 blend of the Toyota 0W-20 and M1 0W-40 will give you a 205 VI 0W-30. Both oils are made by Mobil so there should be no blending issues since Mobil is on record stating all their oils can be mixed.
 
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