Canton Mecca (CM) Absolute No Bypass Oil Filters

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Is there any way you can plumb in an amsoil twin filter unit which has by-pass and full flow on a manifold and use a more common filter?
You imply that you have a ton of money into this car,a few more bucks could mean much easier filter acquisition and overall better filtration.
I'd look into that option.
Amsoil makes a bolt on unit although I don't know how bolt on easy it would be in your application.
Good luck in your quest.
 
Originally Posted By: URG8RB8
The K&N is OK, but not what I am looking for here. I would like to find one of the top 4 100% synthetics. I found an almost match. The Fram XG-3985 will fit, but the bypass valve spring is set to 12 psi versus the normal 32-36 psi. Is running a light bypass spring highly detrimental? Also this is an XG part number, but not an Ultra. What is the difference? I can’t find much literature. XG seems to be rated for 7000 miles versus the 10,000 on the Ultra.


The lighter spring pressure means it goes into by-pass faster,and using a 20w-50 you may never actually filter the oil since pressure will already be high using such thick oil. That eliminates that option.
I suggest contacting Pablo here on the forum. He is our amsoil rep. Maybe he can figure out a system for you that will work.
 
Originally Posted By: URG8RB8
The K&N is OK, but not what I am looking for here. I would like to find one of the top 4 100% synthetics. I found an almost match. The Fram XG-3985 will fit, but the bypass valve spring is set to 12 psi versus the normal 32-36 psi. Is running a light bypass spring highly detrimental? Also this is an XG part number, but not an Ultra. What is the difference? I can’t find much literature. XG seems to be rated for 7000 miles versus the 10,000 on the Ultra.


The XG is the old Extended Guard and they are out of production now, but they were rated for 10K miles to the best of my knowledge. The XG numbers now apply to the Ultra, but you will still find old stock Extended Guard on some shelves. All the numbers translate to the same applications so al you need to do is find an Ultra of that number and you are set. They haven't changed all the pics over from old to new yet, I guess. We were warned of that some time ago but I guess the transition is not yet complete.

That XG number is a very small filter compared to what was on there so I don't think it's worth considering.
As to the difference in bypass pressure, that's a lot. Bypass pressure is most often based on the filter media and the application. A high bypass number with a cellulose filter is often seen on filters that have either a dense, efficient cellulose media that is built for high DPs and/or in high-revving performance cars spec'ed for thick oils. The bypass is high so that the filter will bypass less with thick oil or sudden, high revs. The media has to be robust to handle a 32-36 psi DP. That much difference is a bit troubling to me but generally speaking, with a syn media you could get by with a lower bypass number (because they flow better) but I wouldn't make a big change without a LOT more research. FOr me, that would mean hooking up a DP gauge setup any trying it (I built one for my truck and am experimenting now).
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Is there any way you can plumb in an amsoil twin filter unit which has by-pass and full flow on a manifold and use a more common filter?
You imply that you have a ton of money into this car,a few more bucks could mean much easier filter acquisition and overall better filtration.
I'd look into that option.
Amsoil makes a bolt on unit although I don't know how bolt on easy it would be in your application.
Good luck in your quest.


I have been researching this option, and we literally don't have enough space in our engine bay to mount a single remote mount filter. There just isn't much space available.
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen

As to the difference in bypass pressure, that's a lot. Bypass pressure is most often based on the filter media and the application. A high bypass number with a cellulose filter is often seen on filters that have either a dense, efficient cellulose media that is built for high DPs and/or in high-revving performance cars spec'ed for thick oils. The bypass is high so that the filter will bypass less with thick oil or sudden, high revs. The media has to be robust to handle a 32-36 psi DP. That much difference is a bit troubling to me but generally speaking, with a syn media you could get by with a lower bypass number (because they flow better) but I wouldn't make a big change without a LOT more research. FOr me, that would mean hooking up a DP gauge setup any trying it (I built one for my truck and am experimenting now).


Looks like I only have two options then as far as spin on filters go, the K&N or the Mobil 1. Do you know if anyone has done a performance (filtration) test on the Mahle OC-75? Maybe the original is the best option.

The other option I have is slightly more difficult. The Fram filter for the Mustang is almost identical to the OC-75 except the thread pitch. The by-pass is lower at 25 psi, but better than 12 psi. I would feel OK, running top quality synthetic oil with a 25 psi bypass. The Mustang uses a 22X1.5 versus my 20X1.5. I am looking into whether or not the threaded piece the filter screws onto is removable. If so, I will have a new one made at the machine shop with the larger 22X1.5 threads.
 
Originally Posted By: URG8RB8


Looks like I only have two options then as far as spin on filters go, the K&N or the Mobil 1. Do you know if anyone has done a performance (filtration) test on the Mahle OC-75? Maybe the original is the best option.

The other option I have is slightly more difficult. The Fram filter for the Mustang is almost identical to the OC-75 except the thread pitch. The by-pass is lower at 25 psi, but better than 12 psi. I would feel OK, running top quality synthetic oil with a 25 psi bypass. The Mustang uses a 22X1.5 versus my 20X1.5. I am looking into whether or not the threaded piece the filter screws onto is removable. If so, I will have a new one made at the machine shop with the larger 22X1.5 threads.


I have done next to no research on Mahle. The only suggestion there is to find a contact point with the company and ask directly. More than likely, it will fall into the "average" category, ~94% @ 20 um and absolute around 35-40 um.

If you have the option of machining a new adapter, that might be a (fairly) simple option that offers many more choices. Before doing so, I would double check ALL the available filters to see if there might not be one even better than the application you found.
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen

If you have the option of machining a new adapter, that might be a (fairly) simple option that offers many more choices. Before doing so, I would double check ALL the available filters to see if there might not be one even better than the application you found.


Jim:

I have now heard back from the big four, and all said they don't plan on making an "ultra" filter for my application. I can use the Mobile 1 or K&N, but these are not optimal in my opinion. When I get back to the states, I will work on changing out the adaptor. I have yet to hear back from the owner of CM. I will have to give them a call again next week. I have heard back from several hard core racers who like their product.

Have you read much about the Pure Power SS mesh cleanable filters? I have read alot of mixed opinions on these.
 
Check out the WIX/Napa gold 1182.

Beta Ratio : 2/20=6/20
Flow Rate : 7 - 9 gpm
Gasket I.D. (Inches) : 2.462"
Media Type : Glass Enhanced Cellulose
Oil Filter Gasket O.D. (Inches) : 2.834"
Oil Filter Height (Inches) : 5.207"
Oil Filter O.D. (Inches) : 3.66"
Oil Filter Style : Spin-On Lube Filter
Burst Pressure : 350 psi
Gasket I.D. (mm) : 63 mm
Oil Filter Gasket O.D. (mm) : 72 mm
Oil Filter Height (mm) : 132 mm
Oil Filter O.D. (mm) : 93 mm
Oil Filter Thread Size (mm) : 20 x 1.50 mm
Bypass Pressure : 24 psi

Or 1285
Flow Rate : 9 - 11 gpm
Gasket I.D. (Inches) : 2.37"
Media Type : Glass Enhanced Cellulose
Oil Filter Gasket O.D. (Inches) : 2.74"
Oil Filter Height (Inches) : 5.811"
Oil Filter O.D. (Inches) : 2.967"
Oil Filter Style : Spin-On Lube Filter
Burst Pressure : 285 psi
Gasket I.D. (mm) : 60 mm
Oil Filter Gasket O.D. (mm) : 70 mm
Oil Filter Height (mm) : 147 mm
Oil Filter O.D. (mm) : 75 mm
Oil Filter Thread Size (mm) : 20 x 1.50 mm
Bypass Pressure : 30 psi
 
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The OP is looking for a high efficincy filter The top example above is only 95% @ 20 um and there is not a Beta listed on the lower example. He's not having trouble finding filters that "fit" just a readily available high efficiency filter that fits.

The mesh filters... I'm kinda "meh" on them. Lotta claims and ad hype but not enough long term, unbiased, deep tech info out there.

If you can get efficiency specs on the CM, that may be the answer to your question. If you do get an answer, please let us know.
 
Jim:

I have yet to hear back from the owner/operator at CM, so in my opinion that takes them off the list. I have called and sent E-mails. Either he all ready knows that his filters are sub par, or can't take the time to return a potential customer's call. This is no way to run a business. Therefore, I am back to the modified filter stud approach. I am going to use 3/4-16 threads in order to mount a XG3682 Fram Ultra. This particular model does not have a bypass valve so I will not have to worry about oil not being filtered. Our blocks have a built in oil pressure relief valve in addition to the oil pump OPR, so I am not worried about the filter collapsing. I plan on running very expensive Miller's Nanotechnology 10W-60 racing oil, with proper warmups anyway. It is quite hot down in Tampa, so should not be that much PSID on cold startups. Especially after reading your PISD posts. Thanks for taking the time to log the results.

filter details can be found here:

Fram Ultra XG3682
 
Keep us posted on progress. I like people who take a harder road and aren't afraid to make a decision. Hope it all works out great... and there are few reasons why it shouldn't be at least "fine" as long as you pay attention.
 
Jim:

I received a decent quote from a local CNC shop in Bangkok, too bad things are like this is the states. They will actually make two varieties for me for $40. One will be the aforementioned 3/4-16 and a second one in 22X1.5 mm, which has a ton of options, all with bypass valves though. The material is 304 SS, so quite a good price for stainless. My filter options are now far and wide, or will be when I pick up the adaptors in a couple weeks. I will keep you posted as to the results. Thanks for the suggestions and advice!

Cheers,

Eric
 
They even made a nice CAD drawing for me. Things are so much cheaper over here it is not even funny. I would have been lucky for any machine shop in San Jose to talk to me on the phone for $40!
grin.gif
 
Jim:

Do you know where I can find some performance data on the Fram Racing oil filters? The HP-10 will also fit my car very nicely with the 3/4-16 adaptor. My machinist has reccomended this filter over the FU. I would like to find out some more information, but the Fram website doesn't seem to show the racing filters.
 
Trust me I know how to Google. I was looking for specific performance data such as beta rating, flow rate, and micron size rating first pass effecientcy. I could not locate this data on the Fram or the Summit site. I did find the following data on the Dudiak Racing Products site:


FRAM RACING Spin-On Oil Filters

High Oil Flow Rate
The oil film, or wedge, is the only element separating racing engine components that are moving at extremely high speeds. A high oil flow rate and high oil pressure are essential to deliver the flow volume necessary to maintain the oil film between moving metal surfaces. For this reason, the low restriction racing media of the FRAM RACING filter was designed for high oil flow.

Low Restriction
Ideally, racers would like zero restriction, but that is not possible. Oil flow encounters some restriction even as it moves through all engine passages. To create the smallest amount of restriction, the FRAM RACING filter utilizes up to three times the media used in passenger car oil filters for absolute minimum pressure drop with no sacrifice in filtering ability.

High Performance Features:

•Heavy-duty steel body construction to resist high pressure surges and external impact
•Low-restriction racing media designed for high oil flow
•Spiral-shaped centertube to provide protection against collapse
•Heavy gauge steel tapping plate to withstand high pressure flexing
•Screen-over bypass valve to provide additional protection against larger contaminants
•Relief valve developed uniquely for high oil flow racing conditions
 
Well, I guess I'll respond again here by saying that the HP line is less efficient than the regular Fram line. You could contact Fram for the exact specs. Google "Motorking" here... he works at Fram.

Check K&N. Here are the specs for one (HP6001) and I believe they all mostly use the same media, just more or less of it.

10 um- 53.1 %
20 um- 95.4 %
30 um- 99.9 %
Capacity- 55.4 grams
Hydrostatic Burst- 558 psi
Element Collapse- 175 psid
Flow Rate- 20 GPM (J-806)

Assuming I did it right, here are the Betas- 10/20/30=2.1/21.7/1000
 
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