Canadian Winter Tire Regulations

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Back when I was running the cab fleet, winter tires were pretty rare. About 15 years ago, winter tires experienced a big resurgence here in the fleets to the point that you'll rarely see taxis without winter tires in the winter now. To get cheap taxi operators onside indicates there's something to them.
wink.gif
 
^ I understand there are people who don't drive in snow and would rather take a taxi.

Or the carless choose to shop during inclement weather.

Maybe the tips are good if you get there in one piece.

Any way, it's my impression it's actually great to drive a taxi in foul weather.
 
Here, when things get really foul, getting a taxi can be a bit of a chore, but those are the days the drivers make their money, especially when it's ridiculously cold. Nonetheless, I suppose it pays for the cabs to be putting winter tires on. A collision, even if it's not the driver's fault, is a major hassle and expense. If it avoids even one collision, it's worth it.

Besides, it saves wear on the summer tires, and it's not like the average taxi requires wheels costing $800 a piece, nor do they tend to have really weird, expensive tire sizes.
 
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
CapriRacer, does the industry ever plan to include an ice braking test as part of the qualification for the Snowflake Symbol?


There was a proposal by the Canadian givernment to create a 5 level system to the Mountain/Snowflake symbol. The idea was that Level 1 would barely pass the current test and higher levels would include higher levels of grip for both snow AND ice - each level being better than the previous one.

But tires don't behave that way. Things that help ice traction don't translate into better snow traction. So the idea was abandoned and nothing further is on the books.

And just so you know: Both ice traction and snow traction is a test that compares to a standard tire. (So is wet and dry traction) Traction testing is highly variable, so small differences are hard to see - and the results are usually expressed as a percent of the control.

And one last thought: This type of testing is considered highly proprietary, so unless there is a regulation, you will not see tire manufacturers publishing their results (except for some isolated comparisons for marketing purposes).
 
Originally Posted By: moto94536
I don't live in Canada. I am just curious if you have AWD, do you still need winter tires?


I did some nice 4-wheel drifts in my folk's '98 Subaru Legacy with AWD in an abandoned snow-covered parking lot some 5-6 years ago. It was shod with 8/32" cheap all-seasons. A little gas, and that car would break traction at all 4 corners and leave 4 separate tracks through the snow when launched sideways. AWD got all 4 tires spinning, but did absolutely nothing for cornering or braking. Getting that car to do donuts was easy since the tires had zero grip, even with AWD.

The snow tires on both our FWD cars put a stop to those shenanigans pretty quickly. Most of the time trying to do donuts results in the cars plodding in wide, understeering circles with the snow tires on. I can get both cars to swap ends in the snow even on snow tires, but I have to yank and hold the e-brake while doing a very fast, very sharp turn with a lot of throttle input, and traction/stability control need to be off. Even then the cars are pulsing the ABS to the rear wheels to keep them from locking up, so it's a very determined driver doing deliberate actions with the safety nannies disabled to get the cars to be really out of control. Put another way, the threshold for control is much higher with snow tires.
 
Originally Posted By: moto94536
I am just curious if you have AWD, do you still need winter tires?

Only if you want to be able to stop.
smile.gif
 
Got a friend in the NHSP. He observed one day that in the past, the poor souls they had to go out and help on a bad winter day were, more often than not, folks stuck, a big family in a beat up four door with worn tires because they couldn't afford better, NOW he says you often see upscale SUV's from (a big state to the south) rolled over and find the yuppy driver in a dither about "bad road conditions" being at fault. They've even asked HIM to go go gather their strewn about luggage. (That's NOT a bellboy uniform he wears)
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: moto94536
I am just curious if you have AWD, do you still need winter tires?

Only if you want to be able to stop.
smile.gif



And turn!
grin.gif
 
Quote:
If it avoids even one collision, it's worth it.
So true. A set of winter tires costs about the same as the deductible for a wreck, not to mention all the trouble and possibility of injury or death. The winter tires also greatly enhance one's ability to dodge out of the way of some fool sliding toward you.
 
Originally Posted By: Ken2
A set of winter tires costs about the same as the deductible for a wreck, not to mention all the trouble and possibility of injury or death. The winter tires also greatly enhance one's ability to dodge out of the way of some fool sliding toward you.


And the downtime is another issue. Sure, there's insurance to cover the downtime, but it's not quite the same as working a busy winter day, and none of that covers a taxi driver (who isn't the owner) who winds up getting a few days off without pay simply because his ride is down.

I wasn't driving cab when the winter tires started to come back into fashion. I did have a set on the Audi, and they definitely made a difference. That car was good in the snow without winter tires; the winter tires still made a large difference.
 
Winter tires have been mandatory here as long as I remember. Considering the climate it's a no-brainer.
 
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
CapriRacer, does the industry ever plan to include an ice braking test as part of the qualification for the Snowflake Symbol?


There was a proposal by the Canadian givernment to create a 5 level system to the Mountain/Snowflake symbol. The idea was that Level 1 would barely pass the current test and higher levels would include higher levels of grip for both snow AND ice - each level being better than the previous one.

But tires don't behave that way. Things that help ice traction don't translate into better snow traction. So the idea was abandoned and nothing further is on the books.

And just so you know: Both ice traction and snow traction is a test that compares to a standard tire. (So is wet and dry traction) Traction testing is highly variable, so small differences are hard to see - and the results are usually expressed as a percent of the control.

And one last thought: This type of testing is considered highly proprietary, so unless there is a regulation, you will not see tire manufacturers publishing their results (except for some isolated comparisons for marketing purposes).


Apparently, the reference tire for the Snowflake test is a Uniroyal Tiger Paw trailer tire!? Talk about setting the bar low! It can't be too difficult to perform 10% better in the snow than a trailer tire. The tread design on that tire looks like something from the 1980s.
There is a photo of the reference tire and the test vehicle at this link (scroll down to the bottom of the page).
http://www.autoreview.ru/_archive/section/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=125452&SECTION_ID=7083
 
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Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Apparently, the reference tire for the Snowflake test is a Uniroyal Tiger Paw trailer tire!?........


Sorry, but the reference tire is an all season tire - NOT a trailer tire.

Setting the bar low? Maybe, but remember, the test was developed in the late 1990's and published in the 2000's. At the time, winter tires performed above this value - but not by a lot. There has been lots of progress since then.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SubLGT

Apparently, the reference tire for the Snowflake test is a Uniroyal Tiger Paw trailer tire!? Talk about setting the bar low! It can't be too difficult to perform 10% better in the snow than a trailer tire. The tread design on that tire looks like something from the 1980s.
There is a photo of the reference tire and the test vehicle at this link


kstati_MG_4077-s.jpg


In Russia, lugnuts are optional?

That tiger paw at least has decent siping.
 
A few posts have mentioned the cost of winter tires...... I believe they are nearly free. Consider the following: The wifes commuter Escort needed new tires at 48K miles, and I bought two sets of tires..... Michelin X-ones for summer and Yokohama Guardex ice tires for winter. The Ice tires were usually on for about 3-4 months each year.
No new tires were needed until the Escort passed the 200k mark.
So, 150k miles, two sets of tires......does that not make the ice tires free.....except for the cost of rims? (I bought used steel rims for that car, 60 bucks for 4)

I have been a user of winter tires for about 30 years....and gone to the mountains for snowskiing all 30 years. Your first choice should always be 2wd with ice tires, then 4wd with all seasons tires as a second and much poorer choice - and also much more expensive.

4wd with ice tires will both keep you on the road and make you go if cost is no object!
 
Last edited:
I drive 12K per year. For someone like me to have two sets of tires means any one set could possibly last 10 years or more. This then brings tire age into question.
 
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