Can you help me better understand why women want a SUV over a sedan?

[IndyIan]

I don’t know about Subarus, so I also went and looked. What I learned is that Subaru (Canada) has 4 types of maintenance: A, B, C, D. B is bigger A, C is bigger than B…

Subarus (Canada) call for a 6 months or 6,000 miles service interval, and so requires 8 services within 48 months. More specifically: x4 service A + x3 Service B + x1 service C:
View attachment 152543

The cost of x4 service A + x3 Service B + x1 service C = $2,800 CA and does not include transmission service, unless I’ve missed it quickly glancing

Subaru Service Pricing | Barrie Subaru

You can trust Barrie Subaru to service and maintain your Subaru with the utmost care at a fair and competitive price.

www.barriesubaru.com

Those guys are expensive! My dealer was a bit cheaper. I do see they offer prepaid services as well for a bit of a deal.

Prepaid Maintenance - Barrie Subaru

Pre-Pay and Save on Service with Barrie Subaru's prepaid maintenance packages. Save 20% on average compared to paying as you go. Contact us to learn more.

www.barriesubaru.com

So at 60k miles you would have 10 oci's and service appts done including trans and diff changes, and spark plugs for $3300. The MB guys haven't really done anything but change the oil 4 times for $3100....

What I did was just get a price to do the diffs and CVT fluid, , so with 8 oil changes at $100 and the diffs and CVT done for $350, plus an air filter or two it's not too bad. I also had them do the spark plugs as its a bit of PITA. Anyways I made sure I did enough for the warranty requirements and did the rest myself. Our keyf ob batteries seem to be hanging in there!
For long term ownership I think the subaru maintenance plan is better, but that's just my opinion. I won't get into lifetime fluids and long OCI's

 

[AlphaOmega]

Those guys are expensive! My dealer was a bit cheaper. I do see they offer prepaid services as well for a bit of a deal.

Prepaid Maintenance - Barrie Subaru

Pre-Pay and Save on Service with Barrie Subaru's prepaid maintenance packages. Save 20% on average compared to paying as you go. Contact us to learn more.

www.barriesubaru.com

So at 60k miles you would have 10 oci's and service appts done including trans and diff changes, and spark plugs for $3300. The MB guys haven't really done anything but change the oil 4 times for $3100....

What I did was just get a price to do the diffs and CVT fluid, , so with 8 oil changes at $100 and the diffs and CVT done for $350, plus an air filter or two it's not too bad. I also had them do the spark plugs as its a bit of PITA. Anyways I made sure I did enough for the warranty requirements and did the rest myself. Our keyf ob batteries seem to be hanging in there!
For long term ownership I think the subaru maintenance plan is better, but that's just my opinion. I won't get into lifetime fluids and long OCI's

There is no doubt that Merc is pricier. Just by not that much as people make tend to make it out to be. Generally speaking, dealer maintenance is a glorified oil change. What else does a car need during its first 4 years of life?

I’ve taken my car to dealer specifically for transmission service and alignment. During one visit for ATF swap I had them do a brake flush. But even when it was new I did the oil change myself and had a nearby chain tire shop perform tire rotation. Cabin air filter every 20k mi is a job a semi deaf, semi blind grandmother could do and an engine air filter is no much more difficult and needs to be done once every 40k miles. There is really nothing on a new car to inspect either, unless there are puddles are forming under it or there are lights glowing in the dash.

Merc calls for ATF be swapped every 70k mi, so it’s not a lifetime fluid. A 10k mi OCI with a 229.5 oil that is certified by Mercede, Porsche and others to perform well in 500 hp cars on a summer day, on an autobahn is good for 10k mi OCIs in my 6 cylinder engine. At least I’ve no reason to doubt that it isn’t

 

[dlundblad]

Good question. My wife drives a 4Runner, but also has an older 4 door Volvo sedan.

My moms first new vehicle was a Jeep Comanche. 5 speed, roll bar etc. She drives an orange 4Runner now of all things.

 

[KJH]

No1 thing for women and cars is visibility and seating position, and the spacial relation of every other part of the driving experience to those two factors. This is followed by looks, most women like some variation of the barbie SUV aesthetically, or will go for a status piece. SUV/CUV have naturally better visibility and a high seating position by default, and most these days are styled for women.

I am known as the "guy that knows about cars" in my extended family and among my social circle, and every time I am asked for advice about cars from a woman, and I ask what theyre looking at/what they liked, their preferences are always based on these things. "I know that X is a better car but I could reach the touch screen better in Y". " "The X has better gas mileage, lower miles and is more reliable, but the steering wheel felt too far away on it and Y looks cuter!".

If i ever became a car salesman, the number 1 thing I would focus on when selling to women is to make sure their seat is adjusted perfectly during the test drive. I am being completely serious when I say that a huge percentage of car purchase decisions by women are likely hugely affected by them having a strange seating position when test driving or sitting in the car and them having visibility or discomfort when reaching for something. I hear a complaint about something that is downstream related to driving position every single time I listen to a woman talk about how they chose their car. To be clear seating position is extremely important and I myself am quite finicky about it, but I've never been in a car were I couldnt get it adjusted properly, but it takes a minute to adjust all the settings to do so.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Since we're going to pull up random websites, Consumer Reports and KBB also puts Merc at the very bottom of the list of reliability. Guess who's at the top? BMW is up there which is really nice.

Very good! BMW are as good or even better than Mercs. This is what even the basic 5 series that is 5 or so year old design looks like underneath. All aluminum, including front and rear subframe, and looks like diff is too. F@@king masterpiece

Front suspension:

Front subframe:

Rear subframe with rear steer mechanism:

 

[AlphaOmega]

I think we beat this horse enough. Enjoy your Mercedes.

I thought that we were just talking merits of cars? In any event, I have been enjoying my car for the last 8.5 years and wouldn’t mind spreading the joy . When, thanks in part to this conversation, you chose a European make for your or your wife’s next car, and you find yourselves regretting not trying them sooner, don’t forget to drop a line, acknowledging my minuscule input

 

[zzyzzx]

The only reason I would consider a compact SUV is because of the lack of hatchbacks.

 

[MSCH]

Very good! BMW are as good or even better than Mercs. This is what even the basic 5 series that is 5 or so year old design looks like underneath. All aluminum, including front and rear subframe, and looks like diff is too. F@@king masterpiece

Front suspension:
View attachment 152581View attachment 152582View attachment 152583
Front subframe:
View attachment 152584
Rear subframe with rear steer mechanism:
View attachment 152585

Germans are great at building masterpieces, even where they didn't need a masterpiece.. which sometimes works against them.. when it becomes time to repair the masterpiece.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Germans are great at building masterpieces, even where they didn't need a masterpiece.. which sometimes works against them.. when it becomes time to repair the masterpiece.

For example?

 

[IndyIan]

For example?

The goofy rear wheel steer on your example above, looks like great suspension, and then comes the over complicated part....
Or my VW campervan with an extra electric water pump to circulate water after shut down? Why? Its a 40hp/L 5 cyl lump, just design it properly so some heat soak doesn't hurt it, like most simple under powered engines...

 

[AlphaOmega]

The goofy rear wheel steer on your example above, looks like great suspension, and then comes the over complicated part....
Or my VW campervan with an extra electric water pump to circulate water after shut down? Why? Its a 40hp/L 5 cyl lump, just design it properly so some heat soak doesn't hurt it, like most simple under powered engines...

The rear wheel steer is optional and helps with, per reviews I’ve seen, with maneuverability, particularly in the city: big car, but operates like a compact one. If someone is planning to own a car for a very long time and wants to reduce potential future repairs — just do not check the option . Same for fancy, matrix-shmatrix-laser headlights, that’ll be $1,500 a piece (if not more) when their time comes. And so on.

Overall, I think most Mercs don’t even come with heated seats, blind spot monitoring, and such as standard. But if one wants fancy headlights or cooled seats with massage, one should be prepared to repair them 8-15 years down the road, as nothing lasts forever

These are the lights on my car. A pair of them were a $1,500 option over standard LED lights. I think a new replacement unit is as much per one headlight. Knock-knock, all has been good so far, but I understood what I was getting in to. It won’t make it any easier when the time will come to replace it though, if I’ll have the car by then . Whoever buys the car, and if a replacement falls on him/her, it won’t be Mercedes’s fault they are so expensive, as there are a lot more cars with basic LED units that probably cost as much as Toyota Camry’s units (or not too far off), and one should make a calculated decision when purchasing any car, really

Standard headlight for my car: a reflector LED with small DRL LED strip. Cheap to replace:

Fancy, $1,500 option, lensed, motorized, active LED lights, controlled by computer to illuminate around cars traveling in front and towards you:

Here they are in action, it’s a 3 minutes video:


There is always a choice of what onboard equipment one wants/needs and is ready to pay for.

And here is a newer version (still from 7 years ago):


What year is your camper van?

 

[michaelluscher]

The women in my life (mother/grandmother/sister) are all well below average in height
Also some of them are on the larger side of build
That body style and a desire to see further up drew them to minivans and compact SUVs
My sister's the tallest/thinnest, and she's got the seat in her Milan darn near all the way rolled forward
Makes it tricky when my 6'2 frame goes for a drive

 

[John105]

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say for protection and safety, or the feeling thereof. Men as well. That disconnection from the road = security

 

[IndyIan]

The rear wheel steer is optional and helps with, per reviews I’ve seen, with maneuverability, particularly in the city: big car, but operates like a compact one. If someone is planning to own a car for a very long time and wants to reduce potential future repairs — just do not check the option . Same for fancy, matrix-shmatrix-laser headlights, that’ll be $1,500 a piece (if not more) when their time comes. And so on.

Overall, I think most Mercs don’t even come with heated seats, blind spot monitoring, and such as standard. But if one wants fancy headlights or cooled seats with massage, one should be prepared to repair them 8-15 years down the road, as nothing lasts forever

These are the lights on my car. A pair of them were a $1,500 option over standard LED lights. I think a new replacement unit is as much per one headlight. Knock-knock, all has been good so far, but I understood what I was getting in to. It won’t make it any easier when the time will come to replace it though, if I’ll have the car by then . Whoever buys the car, and if a replacement falls on him/her, it won’t be Mercedes’s fault they are so expensive, as there are a lot more cars with basic LED units that probably cost as much as Toyota Camry’s units (or not too far off), and one should make a calculated decision when purchasing any car, really

Standard headlight for my car: a reflector LED with small DRL LED strip. Cheap to replace:
View attachment 153805
Fancy, $1,500 option, lensed, motorized, active LED lights, controlled by computer to illuminate around cars traveling in front and towards you:
View attachment 153806

Here they are in action, it’s a 3 minutes video:


There is always a choice of what onboard equipment one wants/needs and is ready to pay for.

And here is a newer version (still from 7 years ago):


What year is your camper van?

Yeah, if we spent 25-40% more on the Outback we could have turning headlights, dual zone, leather, bigger more troublesome screen, auto braking and cruise, lane keep assist, power tail gate, etc.
But the base has heated seats, pretty good headlights, apple carplay, and is pretty nice inside IMO, no base model blanks on the dash, and full steering wheel controls. I don't really want any other options? I did like the swinging vents in my Dad's 1996 626, but I don't know if any car offers that anymore?, and maybe a sunroof, but they aren't worth the premium you pay for them new... Might as well on a used car as they are almost free then.
The camper is 1993 Eurovan with a 2.5 5cyl and 5pd, but it needs some restoration. It was in my inlaws barn for years and everyone assumed it was total scrap, and I thought it was the neighbors.... Turns out its got near zero rust, but had lots of mice and squirrels living in it for a decade....

 

[AlphaOmega]

if we spent 25-40% more on the Outback we could have turning headlights, dual zone, leather, bigger more troublesome screen, auto braking and cruise, lane keep assist, power tail gate, etc.

Of the things you mention, only dual zone is standard on E class and below models . And a bigger screen is not anymore troublesome that a smaller one. Screen size has no affect on “reliability”, I would think. Do 55 inch TVs last longer than 65 inch ones?

As to headlights, I think you did not click on the short videos (it’s ok), but Merc’s headlights are not just “turning”. They are in another technological paradigm from turning headlights. Regardless, the point is, a base Mercedes car will just not be a money pit the common perception would have you believe, but naturally, as options are pilled on, the probability of something needing repair increases since there are more items. Still, even then, how often do you hear —for example — off heated seats stopping working?

The camper is 1993 Eurovan with a 2.5 5cyl and 5pd, but it needs some restoration. It was in my inlaws barn for years and everyone assumed it was total scrap, and I thought it was the neighbors.... Turns out its got near zero rust, but had lots of mice and squirrels living in it for a decade....

That aux water pump —I’m just guessing — could it be just “over engineering” in a good sense? Like the Chevy would not put it there, but VW did for longevity reasons, given this thing might be climbing mountains, loaded, more often than average car, and then stoping on top? Plus the shape is rather compact. An American equivalent is more bulky, no? In any event, how much is that pump and how often does it need to be replaced vs head gasket preservation (I’m guessing) it provides?

Dealing with mice infestation is gross

 

[NormanBuntz]

As for the subject of the post, psychologists would describe the reason as ***** envy.

 

[IndyIan]

Of the things you mention, only dual zone is standard on E class and below models . And a bigger screen is not anymore troublesome that a smaller one. Screen size has no affect on “reliability”, I would think. Do 55 inch TVs last longer than 65 inch ones?

As to headlights, I think you did not click on the short videos (it’s ok), but Merc’s headlights are not just “turning”. They are in another technological paradigm from turning headlights. Regardless, the point is, a base Mercedes car will just not be a money pit the common perception would have you believe, but naturally, as options are pilled on, the probability of something needing repair increases since there are more items. Still, even then, how often do you hear —for example — off heated seats stopping working?



That aux water pump —I’m just guessing — could it be just “over engineering” in a good sense? Like the Chevy would not put it there, but VW did for longevity reasons, given this thing might be climbing mountains, loaded, more often than average car, and then stoping on top? Plus the shape is rather compact. An American equivalent is more bulky, no? In any event, how much is that pump and how often does it need to be replaced vs head gasket preservation (I’m guessing) it provides?

Dealing with mice infestation is gross

No, I didn't watch the videos, but I did now, kind of neat tech but 500' is way too close to have your high beams on and I'm sure almost no one will spend the time fine tuning their head light settings. I think I'm fine with normal headlights for now as a rock strike in one of those is expensive enough.
For 18 and 19 the larger Outback "infotainment" unit really did have more problems than the simpler smaller one. I don't think I knew that at the time, but any screen is pretty optional for me and I didn't want to have to rely on it for HVAC.

 

[AlphaOmega]

No, I didn't watch the videos, but I did now, kind of neat tech but 500' is way too close to have your high beams on and I'm sure almost no one will spend the time fine tuning their head light settings. I think I'm fine with normal headlights for now as a rock strike in one of those is expensive enough.
For 18 and 19 the larger Outback "infotainment" unit really did have more problems than the simpler smaller one. I don't think I knew that at the time, but any screen is pretty optional for me and I didn't want to have to rely on it for HVAC.

500 feet is per law.

You do know that even “Toyota Corollas” have auto high beams these days, right? The technology itself is 70 years old:

In any event, the cherry of Merc’s headlights (video that you’ve watched) is not the auto high beams or that they turn with steering wheel to illuminate around curves, but is the ability to have high beams on following a car, where the lights are able to see the car and shine the light around it, not blinding its driver. Helpful with seeing sides of the road and, for example, seeing a deer or a pedestrian or a bicyclist. Each high beam can be independently rotated out by 30-40 degrees in order to keep shining, while avoiding blinding a driver in front of you. If there is an oncoming traffic, the system will just dim that high beam while keeping the other one on.

The system does not require any adjustment or fine-tuning from the driver — it’s fully automatic. You just switch auto high beams on and let it do its thing. It’s quite cool to have a car 40-50 feet in front of you and your high beams on, with the system just shading out the car in front, while illuminating everything around it. I sometimes have a car in front of me and another in the ajusten lane and the system will swivel out one high beam by the maximum (30-40 degrees) and one at 15 degrees to shine around them, without blinding them.

In any event, point being, these are the optional headlight that are expensive to replace. Otherwise, standard lights were plain LED reflector type, which are no more expensive to replace than a unit from a Camry or some Subaru model, for example. Mercedes is not forcing people to buy needless equipment — it’s all optional! But I repeat myself. It’s entirely reasonable to avoid this and other options (like pneumatic springs, etc) to reduce future potential repairs costs.


What kind of problems Subaru had with 18’ or 19’ model year’s screens and why do you think size was the issue? Anyways, I’m sure whatever bugs there may have been, were remedied by an updated part # under new car’s warranty. Otherwise, it’s just a screen with a CPU, just like modern TVs, phones, tablets, and so on are.

As to some manufacturers eliminating physical buttons and forcing you to dig through menus instead — I completely agree that it is aggravating

 

[IndyIan]

500 feet is per law.
View attachment 154005
View attachment 154006

You do know that even “Toyota Corollas” have auto high beams these days, right? The technology itself is 70 years old:
View attachment 154007

In any event, the cherry of Merc’s headlights (video that you’ve watched) is not the auto high beams or that they turn with steering wheel to illuminate around curves, but is the ability to have high beams on following a car, where the lights are able to see the car and shine the light around it, not blinding its driver. Helpful with seeing sides of the road and, for example, seeing a deer or a pedestrian or a bicyclist. Each high beam can be independently rotated out by 30-40 degrees in order to keep shining, while avoiding blinding a driver in front of you. If there is an oncoming traffic, the system will just dim that high beam while keeping the other one on.

The system does not require any adjustment or fine-tuning from the driver — it’s fully automatic. You just switch auto high beams on and let it do its thing. It’s quite cool to have a car 40-50 feet in front of you and your high beams on, with the system just shading out the car in front, while illuminating everything around it. I sometimes have a car in front of me and another in the ajusten lane and the system will swivel out one high beam by the maximum (30-40 degrees) and one at 15 degrees to shine around them, without blinding them.

In any event, point being, these are the optional headlight that are expensive to replace. Otherwise, standard lights were plain LED reflector type, which are no more expensive to replace than a unit from a Camry or some Subaru model, for example. Mercedes is not forcing people to buy needless equipment — it’s all optional! But I repeat myself. It’s entirely reasonable to avoid this and other options (like pneumatic springs, etc) to reduce future potential repairs costs.


What kind of problems Subaru had with 18’ or 19’ model year’s screens and why do you think size was the issue? Anyways, I’m sure whatever bugs there may have been, were remedied by an updated part # under new car’s warranty. Otherwise, it’s just a screen with a CPU, just like modern TVs, phones, tablets, and so on are.

As to some manufacturers eliminating physical buttons and forcing you to dig through menus instead — I completely agree that it is aggravating

I think the 500' rule was made for 1952 high beams... I'd guess around here most people switch off high beams at like 2-3-4000' which is appropriate for how bright lights are these days. Cool tech for auto aiming headlights, I just wonder if cars with them will be flashed pretty often, I guess it would be really cool if it learned what aiming patterns get flashed and then adjust... Next version maybe!

As for the subaru screens, the small and large screens had different head units and I think the small one was the KISS version so it has far few problems. I think subaru does these in house and its interesting to see their progress from my parents 2015 up level Forester (it runs a bit slow) to what we have and then the bigger screens.

 

[AlphaOmega]

I just wonder if cars with them will be flashed pretty often

I don’t think I have been flashed at once in 8 years due to auto high beams being on. In my wife’s previous car, last generation Wrangler with lensed LEDs (not smart, no swiveling) I get flashed relatively often driving with low beams. It has to do with that car’s height vs older sedans that would think I have high beams on, but in reality my lights are at their eyes level. I enjoy knowing what goes through their head when I show them what high beams are on it by flicking it a few times . Honestly, I sometimes felt bad driving that Jeep at night, but low beams are low beams, no way to dim or lower the light projection on that car