Buick 4T65E hard shift *LONG*

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I was one of those people. Then I thought I'd try Maxlife, and it turned out shifting better than Dex-VI, in my application.

Dex-VI is a terrific fluid. In this case, based on personal experience with both fluids, I recommended the Maxlife since it's an older transmission with a problem. The Dex-VI did not help correct the harsh shifts as much as the Maxlife has.

I'm not bashing Dex-VI. Only saying there's a second, IMO better for this specific application, choice available.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino


Dex VI has a great rep but is thin, if your issue is temp/viscosity related it'll be worse. Maxlife is on the thick side. However, if your issue is temp affecting the solenoids (happens sometimes) the DexVI will be great.


Calling it thin is a bit of a misnomer. Yes dex3 had a higher starting viscosity but in the transmission dex3 shear down to a similar viscosity in short order than dex 6. Where as dex6 is very shear stable and stay pretty close to where it started. So the basic difference is for the first 5 to 10 k dex 3 is a bit thicker but after 5 to 10k they are pretty much the same.


I remember a debate in a thread on if dex3 was speced at the higher starting viscosity and counted on the fact that it would shear quickly to where dex 6 is now. Since it was to expensive back then to make an oil shear stable enough to start where they want to that would drop to low over time.

yes I know gm says not to use dex6 in the likes of transfer cases and such and people use that to say look its to thin. Though what is important here is does a transfer case shear oil even remotely as much as a transmission. Meaning that does dex 3 stay in grade in that application which can't be said be true for a transmission.
 
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When I changed the filter the first time I replaced the pan with one with cooling tubes and a drain plug which made subsequent fluid changes a breeze.

Originally Posted By: TMoto
That sounds interesting but it also sounds like it could be an expensive piece that only provides negligible benefit. Can you tell me where you got it, and how well it worked? Also, any ground clearance issues?


The pan works great, I figure with the slight improvement in cooling plus using a good ATF has kept the transmission healthy. The fins reduce glound clearance by maybe about ½" at the most, the drain plug about 1", if that. I got it from MSE (I think that's the name, "Motor Sport Engineering" or something like that who specializes in W platform mods) but I can't find their website now. A Google search turned up ZZ Performance who offers a similar pan for the 4T65E along with a host of other trans upgrade parts.
 
I just recently switched up from Mercon 5 to Pennzoil Dexron 6 in the TH2004R in my 84 Cutlass. It shifts as good or better and the shifts are at least as firm as with 30k mile Mercon 5. Seems to be working fine in this trans that has around 230k on it.
 
Even though this thread is a few days old, I figured I'd chime in. I have a low mileage 4T65-E into which I put Supertech Dexron VI back in 2008 (46K on the car at the time) . It worked great for about a year/2500 mi; then it started downshifting poorly (grinding--sometimes severely--on 3-1 downshifts) when hot and going on long downhill drives. When that would happen, I found foam on the dipstick.

I did a kitchen laboratory experiment on foam resistance of all the various ATFs I had on hand, and I found that MaxLife was the best and that Supertech Dexron VI was not so good. I did a 40% change by sucking out the pan and replacing with MaxLife. The downshift quality immediately improved, but a 3-1 downshift would occasionally be a little rough (but so slight that you wouldn't notice if you weren't looking for it).

Last week I did another 40% fluid change with more MaxLife, so now the trans has 64% MaxLife, 36% Supertech VI. Now the hot 3-1 shifts seem completely fine. I am now a believer in MaxLife in the 4T65-E application.
 
Originally Posted By: Stu_Rock
Even though this thread is a few days old, I figured I'd chime in. I have a low mileage 4T65-E into which I put Supertech Dexron VI back in 2008 (46K on the car at the time) . It worked great for about a year/2500 mi; then it started downshifting poorly (grinding--sometimes severely--on 3-1 downshifts) when hot and going on long downhill drives. When that would happen, I found foam on the dipstick.

I did a kitchen laboratory experiment on foam resistance of all the various ATFs I had on hand, and I found that MaxLife was the best and that Supertech Dexron VI was not so good. I did a 40% change by sucking out the pan and replacing with MaxLife. The downshift quality immediately improved, but a 3-1 downshift would occasionally be a little rough (but so slight that you wouldn't notice if you weren't looking for it).

Last week I did another 40% fluid change with more MaxLife, so now the trans has 64% MaxLife, 36% Supertech VI. Now the hot 3-1 shifts seem completely fine. I am now a believer in MaxLife in the 4T65-E application.


That's a very similar experience to my using ST Dex-VI in my Buick's 4T65. Mine never foamed that I know of. It didn't do so well after ~8k miles and 9 months of use, shifting roughly again. Putting in Maxlife via a cooler-line flush made the shifting better, especially when hot.
 
C'mon folks. GM has the world brainwashed that DexronVI is the cats meow. You don't believe them?

As more and more people use it, I think we'll find some moving to other fluids. I know that I've had to flush DexronVI out of some older trans that worked better with Mobil1, Amsoil.....

I think GM will get it right with DexronVI revB-Z comes out. I myself am waiting for DexronXVXXIIIVX.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
ST Dex-VI in my Buick's 4T65 ... didn't do so well after ~8k miles and 9 months of use, shifting roughly again. Putting in Maxlife via a cooler-line flush made the shifting better, especially when hot.

I do still wonder if another brand's Dex-VI would have performed better. I thought all brands use the same Afton additive package--could base oils cause any differences? With respect to the foaming, I would expect the answer to be 'no.'

In any case, the ST Dex-VI really doesn't have the right friction characteristics for the 4T65-E.
 
I'm not sure if another brand would have been better.

Lesson learned: just because it's recommended by the manufacturer doesn't mean it's the best option available.

To the OP: How are you making out?
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
To the OP: How are you making out?

Ordered the Auto-RX, expect it to arrive today.

Picked up 2 gallons of Maxlife from AAP using the discount code, but won't be using it until I put in the shift kit after the run of ARX in the existing fluid.
 
Hi

have your car scanned with a Tech II GM scanner. Most scanners like AZ uses do not scan the "enhanced" codes. Most likely, code p1811 will show up.."Max adapt"... which indicates that the pressure control solenoid may be bad. Usually, the older design of that solenoid would have its screen clogged with clutch dust, supposedly the new design guards against this.

I replaced mine several yrs ago and all has been well.

In any case..get the car scanned by a TECH II scanner which means a trip to the dealer.
 
ARX arrived today as expected. I measured out 6 oz., added that to the transmission, and immediately took it out to run a few errands to make sure it mixed well.

I took before and after pics of the fluid on white paper to compare later, but they came out blurry. My cell phone camera obviously doesn't take close-up pictures very well.
frown.gif
 
Originally Posted By: lght1
have your car scanned with a Tech II GM scanner. Most scanners like AZ uses do not scan the "enhanced" codes. Most likely, code p1811 will show up.."Max adapt"... which indicates that the pressure control solenoid may be bad.

...get the car scanned by a TECH II scanner which means a trip to the dealer

I suspected the AZ scanner wouldn't be able to pick up tranny codes, but until your reply I wasn't sure. Would a local tranny shop have a scanner with this capability?

I've read that for some, replacing the pcs was not a sure cure, even though sediment(?) buildup was a suspected cause of it's failure. It sounds like the design change was what was needed. Can you tell me the manufacturer and part number of the redesigned solenoid? The side cover would need to be removed to get to it, and that's beyond my area of competence, so if I had someone do it for me I want to be certain I have the new design.
 
When was the new design introduced?
The '01 Montana does this "Max Adapt" hard shift randomly, usually until its shut off then restarted.

Looks like the expense in fixing this is mainly the amount of time it takes to access the side cover.
 
Hi

In the GM parts directory, there will be the original part number and then now substituted revision part number.

I would get two separate price quotes from two different dealerships unless you know and trust your parts guy.

Mine was changed out nearly three yrs ago and no issues since then. I do at least one pan drop and filter change every year.
 
Update:
After driving 1308 miles with ARX in the tranny, there was no improvement. If anything it may have become worse, but in all honesty I didn't expect the ARX treatment to solve this problem. Based on the claims on the ARX web site, cleaning out the contamination of deposits, gums, and varnishes with their product should help with future longevity so I figured it was worth a try.

Saturday's forecast as a very nice day was perfect for dropping the pan and getting the shift kit installed. As advertised by TransGo and verified by several online sources, this kit may solve exactly my problem and is not a performance shift kit. The install was pretty straightforward, but a few forums have some nice write-ups highlighting a couple things to look for and sciphi was helpful with some advice as well.

Misc. notes, thoughts, and ramblings...

After successfully removing the pan without taking a shower in ATF, I pulled the magnet off the pan and cleaned it. It was covered in a thin layer of very fine, light gray, sediment. The rest of the pan was clean.

Is the old, apply-hammer-to-screwdriver method the generally accepted procedure to remove the filter seal? The aluminum tube gets mangled to the point that I can grab it with my needle nose pliers and yank it out, but it just seems like there should be a better way.

Once I had the accumulator out and opened up, I noticed some damage to the cover which seemed like it would be from the piston slamming against it when it was in max line-pressure mode. I don't fully understand the inner workings of automatic transmissions, so this is just a guess, but there was obvious damage from the pistons, and my terminology will most likely be inaccurate. The inside of the cover has three lobes that protrude out from the OD of the bore and appear like they may be positive stops for piston travel. Several of them were mushroomed, and one in particular was mashed enough to have a burr sticking out. I was able to pick part of it off with my fingernail. Figuring I didn't want any of that to get loose, I used a stone to file it down smooth. I have several files, but I didn't want to get too agressive on the soft aluminum casting, and it didn't take much with the stone to remove about .015 of material to get it nice and smooth. Of course, a good rinsing was in order to remove any chips and swarf when I finished.

I replaced the stock springs with the ones provided in the kit, added the spacers, and put everything back together. I was told years ago that there is no difference in quality with regard to ATF so I've always purchased whatever was the least expensive. However, after hearing good things about MaxLife, I used a code for a discount at my local AAP and filled up the trans once everything was buttoned up.

After driving it this weekend and today, it shifts as I would expect a good healthy transmission to shift, quick with no slippage and somewhat firm but not hard at all. I can't say what part the MaxLife has in this, since I replaced the fluid at the same time as the shift kit, but it does shift well so I may continue to use it. I'm considering a 30k filter and fluid exchange interval.

Later, I opened up the old filter, it was marked Filtran Microfiber. Inside there were a couple small pieces of aluminum flakes, presumably from the accumulator cover. Not much else inside.

I have a bottle of LubeGard red I purchased a few months back, but am unsure if it will make much difference with the premium
ATF. Either way, I'm happy with the outcome so far. I'll contribute to the forums as much as I can, but may not be too active even though I lurk almost daily. Most of my knowledge is based on my own experience and am not nearly as qualified as a lot of the posters here. I guess there's always the off-topic forums lol.
 
Thanks for the kudos!

I'm glad to hear your Buick is shifting like it should again! Maxlife plus a TransGo works wonders in these transmissions.

My pistons had some light scoring on them when they were opened up. Otherwise they were fine. No damage like you said.

I've run the Maxlife+TransGo for ~10k miles now with only good things to say about it in my car. No harsh shifting so far...
 
Same exact situation with my 02 Olds Intrigue with 4T65E. Ran Auto Rx through it. While the Auto Rx was in it, it never did it. When it was due to be flushed out, it started back up again. I installed the Trans Go shift kit, knock on wood, hasn't done it since. It has even made it through this summer without doing it once, and it usually acted up a lot the hotter it got. Replacing the Pressure Control Module is the correct way to fix this, and it is only like a $30 part, but the problem is it is about $600 in labor to get to, and I have read that people who have had this part replaced had it fail on them about 20,000 miles later. DO THE SHIFT KIT! It is cheap and easy to do, and regardless of whether it solves the problem or not, it won't hurt to try it!
 
EDIT: Just read your last post and see that you have installed the kit! Good luck! Hopefully it won't go into max adapt with that kit in.
 
Hi

Good to hear that its shifting better although I would still scan the pcm for codes.

A tech II or the higher Snap On models can do this as well as the Aeroforce scan tool.
 
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