Bimmer owners - Any decent used model?

[Oillover]

Yes, I know what you said.

I just want clarification as to what issues were apparent that made the old ones not as reliable as others seem to think?
I think the phrase you used was "rose colored glasses"....what exactly about the experience with them inspired that statement?

 

[RAVL]

And, as I suspected, you just want to argue. Have a good evening.

 

[Oillover]

And, as I suspected, you just want to argue. Have a good evening.

I've been part of the BMW community for over 20 years and enjoy learning new things.
It's an honest question.
How's that an argument?

 

[Kantaro]

What the OP must ask themselves is if they care about driving enough to prioritize a fun to drive car over reliability.

This right here. I would never recommend an old German car if you don't value the driving experience enough to put up with the many quirks. It helps a lot if you can turn a wrench.

And the E90 is the last 3 series worth buying

 

[dumkid]

For your first bmw I'd get a 3 series with the n52, they're fairly simple. Change the transmission fluid

 

[SC Maintenance]

I have always wanted to own a BMW. I like fixing things so that parts not the problem. Problem is that whenever I get looking, the ones in my price range are all modified, apparently by someone who owns only a hammer and Sawzall. Seriosly, I don't want to have to start by putting it back to stock before I can start fixing it.

 

[drtyler]

I've been part of the BMW community for over 20 years and enjoy learning new things.
It's an honest question.
How's that an argument?

I can speak from experience with the E30.

Even when newer, the driveshaft guibo, ujoints, control arm bushings, & ball joints had to be replaced more regularly than we typically see now. The M20 has a fairly short interval on the timing belt also. Looking through receipts on my E30, there were window switches, idle control valve, and a couple of coolant temp sensors that were replaced early in its life.

I think a bigger issue was (and still is now), Joe’s Garage down the street isn’t well versed in German cars. Unsuspecting owner may not know this, and things snowball from there.

 

[edyvw]

I don't think I said they were less reliable, in fact I think I said the E30 with M20 was probably BMW's most reliable car. But they still were not perfect and had issues. It is today, with the tendency of everyone, myself included, to view the past with "rose colored glasses" that we talk about them as if they all went 150k -200k miles with no issues when that was not the reality.

On that note, the E90 that I track is far more reliable than my E30 with M10. Actually E90 I have is more reliable than Toyota Sienna I had.

 

[tvaughn]

On that note, the E90 that I track is far more reliable than my E30 with M10. Actually E90 I have is more reliable than Toyota Sienna I had.

E90 N/A 6-cylinder models are probably one of the best-built 3-series while being far more complex than the early days of the E21/E30.

 

[edyvw]

E90 N/A 6-cylinder models are probably one of the best-built 3-series.

Yep. The biggest problem people face is taking cars to "Bob's garage" and Bob doesn't have BMW diagnostic software, which is free to download. Then Bob gives them a lecture on how complex this is while chasing things with his universal OBD.
The second thing is, these are performance cars. There is a reason why they drive well, and why they do the things they do. They are less forgiving if neglected. But don't neglect them. Not hard.

 

[tvaughn]

Yep. The biggest problem people face is taking cars to "Bob's garage" and Bob doesn't have BMW diagnostic software, which is free to download. Then Bob gives them a lecture on how complex this is while chasing things with his universal OBD.
The second thing is, these are performance cars. There is a reason why they drive well, and why they do the things they do. They are less forgiving if neglected. But don't neglect them. Not hard.

Yea, I've owned something like 15 or so BMW's so quite familiar with the routine

E30 was mechanically solid and relatively simple but did have some lame things like an easy-to-crack dashboard, mediocre clearcoat, and other little things I forgot since it has been so long.

E36 mechanically was solid but had a cheap interior that fell apart (the first recyclable BMW), a short-lived cooling system, and some rear subframe issues along with front strut towers when modified. The US E36 M3 was mechanically a pumped up 3-series so it was actually reasonably reliable.

E46 mechanically was solid but dealt with the dreaded rear subframe issue and the same cooling issues as the E36 along with some other annoyances like window regulator and moonroof slider clips. The E46 M3 had its own list of issues, that's for another day even though I love how they look.

E90 had the better 5/7 series front suspension design that lasted longer and drove better, solid chassis, solid N/A 6 cylinders, and was screwed together quite well. Overall, the M3 was quite well built, too, if you consider rod bearings at 100-125k miles maintenance...what you pay for an 8400 rpm redline in a V8.

F30 is when they went on a significant cost-cutting spree again- ironically, I really like CS M models of this era, but otherwise...eh, the N55/B58 was nice along with the 6-spd or ZF 8-speed. The M models are probably one of the most solid of the bunch, with stellar cooling, very robust S55, solid mounted rear subframe, multi-piston fixed back brakes, and so on. Also, it is the first M3 to lose weight since the E30.

Albert Biermann started that M project and left during its development- which is why I think the early F80/F82's were sort of poorly tuned dynamically and engine-wise; supposedly, that's to blame on the new Audi people they brought in. I actually lease-swapped my 2015 M3, as I was pretty disappointed. However, they kept refining that gen, and the CS's were stellar. Journalists were pretty harsh on the early F80/F82, such as Jason Camissa and rightfully so.

The G80 is really an evolution of the F80, fine-tuning and improving. And the interior quality is definitely better.

 

[Carmudgeon]

This right here. I would never recommend an old German car if you don't value the driving experience enough to put up with the many quirks. It helps a lot if you can turn a wrench.

Exactly. OP, or any other prospective BMW owner must ask themselves why they're considering one, especially in relation to the amount of commitment (cost, hassle) they require.

There's probably also a correlation in that to why such a large proportion of them are leased, not sold, as well.

And the E90 is the last 3 series worth buying

To a lot of old BMW owners, their change in focus has also changed the balance of the equation, making them less attractive than before.

I think of the E9x era models as the last of those where they maintained an unquestioned distinction from their competitors, at least in terms of dynamics.

Not sure what kind of traits, or appeal, the G90 M5 is going to share with previous generations, except for the model name.

5300lbs? FFS.

718bhp? Great, it will keep up with the EVs, but where can one actually use, and enjoy that responsibly outside of a track or other closed course?

It used to be from top to bottom, 316I to 745i, the verve, or joie de vivre was an evident trait that flowed through the entire line, M or not, fast or not.

Now, if you dare to want a manual tranny in their smallest, but not small, coupe, they'll only deign to sell it to you in M flavor.

To be honest, driving enthusiasts have only ever been a minority of their typical owners. But when the company tries to convince that group that something like an XM represents to pinnacle of the marque today, in performance, and stature, it's more than kind of an insult.

And that's even before considering something subjective like the styling.

Has the company lost its way? No, I don't believe so. They still have an enormous number of smart, and capable people who can do it.

Has the company "sold out?" That, I can believe, and why execs like Biermann and others jumped ship, a long time ago.

Or more recently, killed projects like the i16, going back to admitting it can't, or won't, compete in a class with the 911s, R8s, and GTs.

 

[vavavroom]

I would not mind having a 502 with the V8.

 

[tvaughn]

Not sure what kind of traits, or appeal, the G90 M5 is going to share with previous generations, except for the model name.

5300lbs? FFS.

718bhp? Great, it will keep up with the EVs, but where can one actually use, and enjoy that responsibly outside of a track or other closed course?

I couldn't believe myself when I read that curb weight either the other day. I guess this is an in-between generation where they have to use one chassis for electric and ICE, but still, BMW has almost always been the lightest of the 3 Germans especially for their M cars- this is a radical change.

As you mentioned though, their current head of M thinks the XM is their showcase model...which is frankly just sad.

 

[edyvw]

I couldn't believe myself when I read that curb weight either the other day. I guess this is an in-between generation where they have to use one chassis for electric and ICE, but still, BMW has almost always been the lightest of the 3 Germans especially for their M cars- this is a radical change.

As you mentioned though, their current head of M thinks the XM is their showcase model...which is frankly just sad.

I think it is that hybrid part that adds weight. Still, it is ridiculous.

 

[Kantaro]

E90 N/A 6-cylinder models are probably one of the best-built 3-series while being far more complex than the early days of the E21/E30.

22RPD is currently developing intake trumpets for the N52 too!

The Future of NA N52 : No Throttle Body [Bonus: Beta Testing Sign-up]

The BMW N51 and N52 engines, renowned for their reliability and perhaps weight but lets be honest, have long been overlooked among enthusiasts and professionals alike. However, every engine has untapp...

22rpd.com

It sounds incredible (5:14 and onwards):

 

[Carmudgeon]

I couldn't believe myself when I read that curb weight either the other day. I guess this is an in-between generation where they have to use one chassis for electric and ICE, but still, BMW has almost always been the lightest of the 3 Germans especially for their M cars- this is a radical change.

As you mentioned though, their current head of M thinks the XM is their showcase model...which is frankly just sad.

It is.

But, testimonials for the OP. If you really want to know why BMW enthusiasts put up with the cost and the potential hassles, and what made them repeat buyers for generation after generation, and made the BMW CCA and others around the world among the largest marque clubs…look for something two generations removed, or older.

If those traits aren't your highest priorities, or don't fit with your needs, then you might be better off with that IS350, or splurge for an IS500.

 

[Bailes1992]

I've said this numerous times on this forum. In Europe, German cars are seen to be the most reliable about, and usually they are. US sold German cars must be built very different to the ones we have over here. That, or you guys really do struggle with looking after them correctly.

My Father had a brand new F30 320d Sport (M-Sport hadn't been released yet) in 2012 with the ZF 8HP. It was one of the very first F30's in the country at the time. It was in jet black with red leather, optional 18" wheels, folding mirrors and rear privacy glass. It started life as my Fathers company car, we both worked for the same company quite closely so often commuted together. I was 19 when he first got it and used to drive it like my hair was on fire and my Father wasn't easy on it either. It got OCI's every 20,000miles and full filter/fluid changes every 40k as specified by BMW. It also got the cheapest fuels we could find and never used any additives. When my Father left the company in 2015 he bought it and took it with him and kept it until late 2017. Over the 5 years he had that car we put nearly 170,000miles on it and it NEVER went wrong. Other than brakes, tyres and basic servicing it wanted for absolutely nothing. Fantastic car!

 

[jeepman3071]

Yep. The biggest problem people face is taking cars to "Bob's garage" and Bob doesn't have BMW diagnostic software, which is free to download. Then Bob gives them a lecture on how complex this is while chasing things with his universal OBD.
The second thing is, these are performance cars. There is a reason why they drive well, and why they do the things they do. They are less forgiving if neglected. But don't neglect them. Not hard.

100% this.

I maintain my own E90, and a few E46s, E9Xs, and an F25 X3 for family/friends. It's quite clear when these cars are brought somewhere else first, and the person working on them has no idea what they are doing. It isn't hard to work on them, in fact many of them have a logical design for replacing things, but if you don't follow the procedure to a T like replacing aluminum one-time use bolts, you can cost yourself big money. This is where Bob's garage where they run everything down with an impact can cause big money repairs.

In addition to the E90 N52 powered cars (325, 328, 330) I would say the N52 powered 128i is a great beginner car enthusiast BMW. They share the same drivetrain and many other components as the E90, but are a bit smaller and lighter. The E39 5-series is also a great beginner car that is easy to fix and maintain DIY, but being that the last year for them was 2003, they will need more care as a daily driver.

 

[Spedestrian]

In addition to the E90 N52 powered cars (325, 328, 330) I would say the N52 powered 128i is a great beginner car enthusiast BMW.

I wish I could find a nice 128i since I live near a race track. An e36/e46 would be fine but all of them get picked up quickly for drift cars.