GT40 isn't an American car and it's certainly not "regular production cars"
Best handling American car built in 60's or 70's?
- Thread starter ledslinger
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The basic Camaros didn't have a swaybar. That made a significant difference just by adding one.
Did Z28s have one? Were sway bars a factory option on Camaros?
This car might be it in stock form:
http://thewestcoastclassics.com/detail/257
Here is some good info on 1970 Camaros:
http://www.nastyz28.com/camaro/camaro70.php
http://thewestcoastclassics.com/detail/257
Here is some good info on 1970 Camaros:
http://www.nastyz28.com/camaro/camaro70.php
VW Bug?
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Corvair Monza with the later fully independent rear suspension, not the the Ralph Nader demonized halfshafts.
I was going to suggest the '65 and up Corvair. My first car 140 Hp (4 carb). I Updated mine with some wider 14" wheels/tires and a couple of old SBC heads up front in the trunk for ballast, the thing handled great. I wouldn't drag race my high school mates, but a trip down the nearest curvy road left them in the dust.
Corvair Monza with the later fully independent rear suspension, not the the Ralph Nader demonized halfshafts.
I was going to suggest the '65 and up Corvair. My first car 140 Hp (4 carb). I Updated mine with some wider 14" wheels/tires and a couple of old SBC heads up front in the trunk for ballast, the thing handled great. I wouldn't drag race my high school mates, but a trip down the nearest curvy road left them in the dust.
Originally Posted By: BigD1
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Originally Posted By: chainblu
The 78-79 WS-6 Trans Am was a good handling car, despite being overweight. They had to do something to make these cars fun to drive as they were castrated in the power department.
the 403 olds and auto trans was in the california cars. No 400 pontiac or 4 speed
I had the Oldsmobile 403/400 turbo-hydramatic, and the 403 was a beast/torque monster tweaked slightly. It was a good handling car with the Goodyear Eagles I ran on it and the radial tuned suspension. I called up Competition Cams, and they had some good information on the cam and heads. Cam had a fast lope, and it worked great with the automatic trans. Aftermarket headers, and can't remember what mufflers, but it was a blast to drive.
The 403's big problem was the super-low compression (high 7s!), and the fact that most cars that used it had super-tall axle gears. (Some as bad as 2.56!) Also, by 1977, the Trans Am was almost 4000lbs.
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Originally Posted By: chainblu
The 78-79 WS-6 Trans Am was a good handling car, despite being overweight. They had to do something to make these cars fun to drive as they were castrated in the power department.
the 403 olds and auto trans was in the california cars. No 400 pontiac or 4 speed
I had the Oldsmobile 403/400 turbo-hydramatic, and the 403 was a beast/torque monster tweaked slightly. It was a good handling car with the Goodyear Eagles I ran on it and the radial tuned suspension. I called up Competition Cams, and they had some good information on the cam and heads. Cam had a fast lope, and it worked great with the automatic trans. Aftermarket headers, and can't remember what mufflers, but it was a blast to drive.
The 403's big problem was the super-low compression (high 7s!), and the fact that most cars that used it had super-tall axle gears. (Some as bad as 2.56!) Also, by 1977, the Trans Am was almost 4000lbs.
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
GT40 isn't an American car and it's certainly not "regular production cars"
Ford is an American company, it makes American cars. if you buy a VW in NA is it a Euro car? When it was built in Mexico?
And the thread title is asking for best handling american car from the 60s or 70s, it doesn't say anything about production or homologation, road legal or track only..
And by those metrics it's the GT40, isn't it?
GT40 isn't an American car and it's certainly not "regular production cars"
Ford is an American company, it makes American cars. if you buy a VW in NA is it a Euro car? When it was built in Mexico?
And the thread title is asking for best handling american car from the 60s or 70s, it doesn't say anything about production or homologation, road legal or track only..
And by those metrics it's the GT40, isn't it?
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
GT40 isn't an American car and it's certainly not "regular production cars"
Ford is an American company, it makes American cars. if you buy a VW in NA is it a Euro car? When it was built in Mexico?
And the thread title is asking for best handling american car from the 60s or 70s, it doesn't say anything about production or homologation, road legal or track only..
And by those metrics it's the GT40, isn't it?
Sure it is if you don't read the original post, unless a hemi Daytona Charger, Superbird, or Torino Talledega could lap Talledega faster than a GT40.
From the original post: "Shelby, Yenko, and the like excluded, regular production cars, unmodified, not COPO."
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
GT40 isn't an American car and it's certainly not "regular production cars"
Ford is an American company, it makes American cars. if you buy a VW in NA is it a Euro car? When it was built in Mexico?
And the thread title is asking for best handling american car from the 60s or 70s, it doesn't say anything about production or homologation, road legal or track only..
And by those metrics it's the GT40, isn't it?
Sure it is if you don't read the original post, unless a hemi Daytona Charger, Superbird, or Torino Talledega could lap Talledega faster than a GT40.
From the original post: "Shelby, Yenko, and the like excluded, regular production cars, unmodified, not COPO."
It was built on a Lola chassis, who weren't excluded from the original list..
For standard road cars of that era, weren't they all straight line speed and oversteer? Certainly good fun, but not really 'hamdling', per se.
Did any cars of that era have optimised spring&damper rates? LSD? Geometry? Even closely matched tyres front to rear? We're any of the cars at that time 4wd?
And they were all front heavy, weren't they? Weight distribution and balance and moment of inertia kind of put them at a disadvantage as far as real handling goes..
For standard road cars of that era, weren't they all straight line speed and oversteer? Certainly good fun, but not really 'hamdling', per se.
Did any cars of that era have optimised spring&damper rates? LSD? Geometry? Even closely matched tyres front to rear? We're any of the cars at that time 4wd?
And they were all front heavy, weren't they? Weight distribution and balance and moment of inertia kind of put them at a disadvantage as far as real handling goes..
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Corvair Monza with the later fully independent rear suspension, not the the Ralph Nader demonized halfshafts.
A turbo corvair comes out for autocross, and it actually handles pretty well and seems to have good power. It has been thoughtfully upgraded though.
A young guy has a V8 mid 70's Mercury Comet, that has had the motor warmed up a bit, and perhaps the suspension, but it still makes you almost seasick to watch it out there. Rolling side to side, forward and back, locking a tire or two here and there... And of course some sideways drifting action. The kid is actually pretty good, but my old Neon on 4 donut spares would give it a run for autocross.
Corvair Monza with the later fully independent rear suspension, not the the Ralph Nader demonized halfshafts.
A turbo corvair comes out for autocross, and it actually handles pretty well and seems to have good power. It has been thoughtfully upgraded though.
A young guy has a V8 mid 70's Mercury Comet, that has had the motor warmed up a bit, and perhaps the suspension, but it still makes you almost seasick to watch it out there. Rolling side to side, forward and back, locking a tire or two here and there... And of course some sideways drifting action. The kid is actually pretty good, but my old Neon on 4 donut spares would give it a run for autocross.
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
GT40 isn't an American car and it's certainly not "regular production cars"
Ford is an American company, it makes American cars. if you buy a VW in NA is it a Euro car? When it was built in Mexico?
And the thread title is asking for best handling american car from the 60s or 70s, it doesn't say anything about production or homologation, road legal or track only..
And by those metrics it's the GT40, isn't it?
The second generation Ford GT40 MkII is 100% American designed and made unlike the first generation MkI version which only had an American engine and other misc parts.
I nominated the 63 Falcon Sprint Rallye and not the MkII because there were no factory street cars ever produced for sale to the public.
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
GT40 isn't an American car and it's certainly not "regular production cars"
Ford is an American company, it makes American cars. if you buy a VW in NA is it a Euro car? When it was built in Mexico?
And the thread title is asking for best handling american car from the 60s or 70s, it doesn't say anything about production or homologation, road legal or track only..
And by those metrics it's the GT40, isn't it?
The second generation Ford GT40 MkII is 100% American designed and made unlike the first generation MkI version which only had an American engine and other misc parts.
I nominated the 63 Falcon Sprint Rallye and not the MkII because there were no factory street cars ever produced for sale to the public.
Originally Posted By: Olas
Ford is an American company, it makes American cars. if you buy a VW in NA is it a Euro car? When it was built in Mexico?
They started making watercooled VW Rabbits in Pennsylvania in 1977 or so. The GTI on the same chassis, IIRC, wasn't until the early 80s though and misses OP's cutoff. And those might have been imported, anyway.
We also have to consider the tires of the day, and that it'd be hard to find a hi-po car that hasn't had front disc brakes swapped in, or sway bars, or newer tech shocks, or HEI, or a carb re-jetted for E10 (and 3% more power...)
Ford is an American company, it makes American cars. if you buy a VW in NA is it a Euro car? When it was built in Mexico?
They started making watercooled VW Rabbits in Pennsylvania in 1977 or so. The GTI on the same chassis, IIRC, wasn't until the early 80s though and misses OP's cutoff. And those might have been imported, anyway.
We also have to consider the tires of the day, and that it'd be hard to find a hi-po car that hasn't had front disc brakes swapped in, or sway bars, or newer tech shocks, or HEI, or a carb re-jetted for E10 (and 3% more power...)
I too was thinking Corvair, but I'm sure the GT40 is the winner here.
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
GT40 isn't an American car and it's certainly not "regular production cars"
Ford is an American company, it makes American cars. if you buy a VW in NA is it a Euro car? When it was built in Mexico?
And the thread title is asking for best handling american car from the 60s or 70s, it doesn't say anything about production or homologation, road legal or track only..
And by those metrics it's the GT40, isn't it?
Gotta read more than the title....
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
Besides the Corvette, built by GM, Ford, Chrysler, or American Motors during the 60's and 70's? Shelby, Yenko, and the like excluded, regular production cars, unmodified, not COPO.
I'll offer it's a 1969 or 1970 Z28 Camaro, or a Boss 302 of the same years.
Best handling defined by fastest lap on a racetrack.
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
GT40 isn't an American car and it's certainly not "regular production cars"
Ford is an American company, it makes American cars. if you buy a VW in NA is it a Euro car? When it was built in Mexico?
And the thread title is asking for best handling american car from the 60s or 70s, it doesn't say anything about production or homologation, road legal or track only..
And by those metrics it's the GT40, isn't it?
Gotta read more than the title....
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
Besides the Corvette, built by GM, Ford, Chrysler, or American Motors during the 60's and 70's? Shelby, Yenko, and the like excluded, regular production cars, unmodified, not COPO.
I'll offer it's a 1969 or 1970 Z28 Camaro, or a Boss 302 of the same years.
Best handling defined by fastest lap on a racetrack.
1963 Pontiac Tempest with a 326. Front engine, rear transaxle, rear IRS, nearly 50/50 weight distribution.
A fast, good handling car you could buy at your local Pontiac dealership.
A fast, good handling car you could buy at your local Pontiac dealership.
Originally Posted By: chainblu
The 67-69 Camaros weren't known for their handling. They were more straight line cars.
Yea were pretty good but as mentioned stock tires sucked. I owned one.
The 67-69 Camaros weren't known for their handling. They were more straight line cars.
Yea were pretty good but as mentioned stock tires sucked. I owned one.
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
From the original post: "Shelby, Yenko, and the like excluded, regular production cars, unmodified, not COPO."
Which also excludes the aforementioned Falcon Monte Carlo (cool as it was/is) as well.
From the original post: "Shelby, Yenko, and the like excluded, regular production cars, unmodified, not COPO."
Which also excludes the aforementioned Falcon Monte Carlo (cool as it was/is) as well.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
They started making watercooled VW Rabbits in Pennsylvania in 1977 or so. The GTI on the same chassis, IIRC, wasn't until the early 80s though and misses OP's cutoff. And those might have been imported, anyway.
Actually, even the GTI versions were screwed together in Westmoreland as well.
They started making watercooled VW Rabbits in Pennsylvania in 1977 or so. The GTI on the same chassis, IIRC, wasn't until the early 80s though and misses OP's cutoff. And those might have been imported, anyway.
Actually, even the GTI versions were screwed together in Westmoreland as well.
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
Best handling defined by fastest lap on a racetrack.
That makes this one hard to pick. You could run the same two cars on a 200 ft. skid pad and then put them on a 1/2 mile oval and get two different winners.
Best handling defined by fastest lap on a racetrack.
That makes this one hard to pick. You could run the same two cars on a 200 ft. skid pad and then put them on a 1/2 mile oval and get two different winners.
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