Ahh mental case brent has arrived, what took you so long?
Auto RX Skeptic turned Believer
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Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Did you document your results of all these cleaners with before/after pictures, compression tests, fuel economy tests, leak test results? Please point me to this data.
Originally Posted By: moving2
I am merely questioning the basis of some peoples' conclusions, I have not had the opportunity to test 500 vehicles, just my own vehicles with various products.
No, and I am not on here making claims that ARX or any other cleaner made my dirty oil pan clean, or made my dirty valve cover clean, or improved my fuel economy, or cured my seal leaks, nor did I purchase any of these products to improve my fuel economy or cure seal leaks. That's the point. I am questioning those who somehow infer the appearance of the oil pan / pickup before they used a certain product, or worse yet, infer the appearance of SOMEONE ELSE'S oil pan / pickup before they used a product! I live in an apartment and do not have the place or tools to open up anything. The most I could do was peer into oil fill hole or look at the dipstick. The 2 times I saw my oil pan off were at a mechanic years before I ever joined this forum. That's why you don't hear me saying "ARX cleaned my valve cover!" However, Gary seems to think he can make such a claim about someone else's vehicle without data. Get it?
You're asking sprintman if he did all this documenting. Something you haven't done yourself. Get it?
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Did you document your results of all these cleaners with before/after pictures, compression tests, fuel economy tests, leak test results? Please point me to this data.
Originally Posted By: moving2
I am merely questioning the basis of some peoples' conclusions, I have not had the opportunity to test 500 vehicles, just my own vehicles with various products.
No, and I am not on here making claims that ARX or any other cleaner made my dirty oil pan clean, or made my dirty valve cover clean, or improved my fuel economy, or cured my seal leaks, nor did I purchase any of these products to improve my fuel economy or cure seal leaks. That's the point. I am questioning those who somehow infer the appearance of the oil pan / pickup before they used a certain product, or worse yet, infer the appearance of SOMEONE ELSE'S oil pan / pickup before they used a product! I live in an apartment and do not have the place or tools to open up anything. The most I could do was peer into oil fill hole or look at the dipstick. The 2 times I saw my oil pan off were at a mechanic years before I ever joined this forum. That's why you don't hear me saying "ARX cleaned my valve cover!" However, Gary seems to think he can make such a claim about someone else's vehicle without data. Get it?
You're asking sprintman if he did all this documenting. Something you haven't done yourself. Get it?
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Originally Posted By: sprintman
moving2 (somwhere else?) if you think I have to answer to the likes of you, you are sorely mistaken. You've ben here what,all of five nanoseconds and suddenly you are the arbiter of what does and doesn't work. I'll say one thing your ego s collosal!
1. The amount of time I've been on this forum makes my comments and opinions no more or less valuable than your own.
2. I do not consider myself an arbiter of what does or doesn't work- it is interesting you think so.
3. I am not inserting my ego, only asking questions which I consider to be valid.
4. The very fact you feel you must "answer to" me only illustrates the fact that you are trying to make this discussion personal instead of discussing the questions at hand.
Your posting is simply an ad-hominem argument, and anyone reading this thread will see that for themselves. Hence, I will let your posting speak for itself.
moving2 (somwhere else?) if you think I have to answer to the likes of you, you are sorely mistaken. You've ben here what,all of five nanoseconds and suddenly you are the arbiter of what does and doesn't work. I'll say one thing your ego s collosal!
1. The amount of time I've been on this forum makes my comments and opinions no more or less valuable than your own.
2. I do not consider myself an arbiter of what does or doesn't work- it is interesting you think so.
3. I am not inserting my ego, only asking questions which I consider to be valid.
4. The very fact you feel you must "answer to" me only illustrates the fact that you are trying to make this discussion personal instead of discussing the questions at hand.
Your posting is simply an ad-hominem argument, and anyone reading this thread will see that for themselves. Hence, I will let your posting speak for itself.
Originally Posted By: Trajan
You're asking sprintman if he did all this documenting. Something you haven't done yourself. Get it?
Trajan- perhaps you missed my response, so I will simply paste it below.
Originally Posted By: moving2
I am merely questioning the basis of some peoples' conclusions, I have not had the opportunity to test 500 vehicles, just my own vehicles with various products. However, I would hope that, as someone who HAS been in a position to test ARX in 500 vehicles over 7 years, you did think to document your results. Otherwise, what a serious waste of an opportunity that testing was.
[...]
No, and I am not on here making claims that ARX or any other cleaner made my dirty oil pan clean, or made my dirty valve cover clean, or improved my fuel economy, or cured my seal leaks, nor did I purchase any of these products to improve my fuel economy or cure seal leaks. That's the point. I am questioning those who somehow infer the appearance of the oil pan / pickup before they used a certain product, or worse yet, infer the appearance of SOMEONE ELSE'S oil pan / pickup before they used a product! I live in an apartment and do not have the place or tools to open up anything. The most I could do was peer into oil fill hole or look at the dipstick. The 2 times I saw my oil pan off were at a mechanic years before I ever joined this forum. That's why you don't hear me saying "ARX cleaned my valve cover!" However, Gary seems to think he can make such a claim about someone else's vehicle without data. Get it?
You see, I am not making the assumptions and claims Gary is, nor those of sprintman. That is precisely because I do not consider what little testing I've done valid, nor would I consider their statements valid without evidence. I am questioning their assumptions and claims, not offering my own.
I hope the bolded text helps with the comprehension of my posts, but please let me know if you have any other questions. I'd be more than happy to answer them.
You're asking sprintman if he did all this documenting. Something you haven't done yourself. Get it?
Trajan- perhaps you missed my response, so I will simply paste it below.
Originally Posted By: moving2
I am merely questioning the basis of some peoples' conclusions, I have not had the opportunity to test 500 vehicles, just my own vehicles with various products. However, I would hope that, as someone who HAS been in a position to test ARX in 500 vehicles over 7 years, you did think to document your results. Otherwise, what a serious waste of an opportunity that testing was.
[...]
No, and I am not on here making claims that ARX or any other cleaner made my dirty oil pan clean, or made my dirty valve cover clean, or improved my fuel economy, or cured my seal leaks, nor did I purchase any of these products to improve my fuel economy or cure seal leaks. That's the point. I am questioning those who somehow infer the appearance of the oil pan / pickup before they used a certain product, or worse yet, infer the appearance of SOMEONE ELSE'S oil pan / pickup before they used a product! I live in an apartment and do not have the place or tools to open up anything. The most I could do was peer into oil fill hole or look at the dipstick. The 2 times I saw my oil pan off were at a mechanic years before I ever joined this forum. That's why you don't hear me saying "ARX cleaned my valve cover!" However, Gary seems to think he can make such a claim about someone else's vehicle without data. Get it?
You see, I am not making the assumptions and claims Gary is, nor those of sprintman. That is precisely because I do not consider what little testing I've done valid, nor would I consider their statements valid without evidence. I am questioning their assumptions and claims, not offering my own.
I hope the bolded text helps with the comprehension of my posts, but please let me know if you have any other questions. I'd be more than happy to answer them.
Trajan your obviously not very bright. How 'bout you go back and reread my post.
Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: Trajan
You're asking sprintman if he did all this documenting. Something you haven't done yourself. Get it?
Trajan- perhaps you missed my response, so I will simply paste it below.
Originally Posted By: moving2
I am merely questioning the basis of some peoples' conclusions, I have not had the opportunity to test 500 vehicles, just my own vehicles with various products. However, I would hope that, as someone who HAS been in a position to test ARX in 500 vehicles over 7 years, you did think to document your results. Otherwise, what a serious waste of an opportunity that testing was.
[...]
No, and I am not on here making claims that ARX or any other cleaner made my dirty oil pan clean, or made my dirty valve cover clean, or improved my fuel economy, or cured my seal leaks, nor did I purchase any of these products to improve my fuel economy or cure seal leaks. That's the point. I am questioning those who somehow infer the appearance of the oil pan / pickup before they used a certain product, or worse yet, infer the appearance of SOMEONE ELSE'S oil pan / pickup before they used a product! I live in an apartment and do not have the place or tools to open up anything. The most I could do was peer into oil fill hole or look at the dipstick. The 2 times I saw my oil pan off were at a mechanic years before I ever joined this forum. That's why you don't hear me saying "ARX cleaned my valve cover!" However, Gary seems to think he can make such a claim about someone else's vehicle without data. Get it?
You see, I am not making the assumptions and claims Gary is, nor those of sprintman. That is precisely because I do not consider what little testing I've done valid, nor would I consider their statements valid without evidence. I am questioning their assumptions and claims, not offering my own.
I hope the bolded text helps with the comprehension of my posts, but please let me know if you have any other questions. I'd be more than happy to answer them.
So, why haven't you documented your usage?
Originally Posted By: Trajan
You're asking sprintman if he did all this documenting. Something you haven't done yourself. Get it?
Trajan- perhaps you missed my response, so I will simply paste it below.
Originally Posted By: moving2
I am merely questioning the basis of some peoples' conclusions, I have not had the opportunity to test 500 vehicles, just my own vehicles with various products. However, I would hope that, as someone who HAS been in a position to test ARX in 500 vehicles over 7 years, you did think to document your results. Otherwise, what a serious waste of an opportunity that testing was.
[...]
No, and I am not on here making claims that ARX or any other cleaner made my dirty oil pan clean, or made my dirty valve cover clean, or improved my fuel economy, or cured my seal leaks, nor did I purchase any of these products to improve my fuel economy or cure seal leaks. That's the point. I am questioning those who somehow infer the appearance of the oil pan / pickup before they used a certain product, or worse yet, infer the appearance of SOMEONE ELSE'S oil pan / pickup before they used a product! I live in an apartment and do not have the place or tools to open up anything. The most I could do was peer into oil fill hole or look at the dipstick. The 2 times I saw my oil pan off were at a mechanic years before I ever joined this forum. That's why you don't hear me saying "ARX cleaned my valve cover!" However, Gary seems to think he can make such a claim about someone else's vehicle without data. Get it?
You see, I am not making the assumptions and claims Gary is, nor those of sprintman. That is precisely because I do not consider what little testing I've done valid, nor would I consider their statements valid without evidence. I am questioning their assumptions and claims, not offering my own.
I hope the bolded text helps with the comprehension of my posts, but please let me know if you have any other questions. I'd be more than happy to answer them.
So, why haven't you documented your usage?
Originally Posted By: Trajan
So, why haven't you documented your usage?
Apparently the bold didn't help, so:
Originally Posted By: moving2
I live in an apartment and do not have the place or tools to open up anything. The most I could do was peer into oil fill hole or look at the dipstick. The 2 times I saw my oil pan off were at a mechanic years before I ever joined this forum.
I didn't document my usage because I did not have the tools available to do so, I was not testing the product (on 500 vehicles over 7 years) as sprintman was, and I am not making the claims sprintman and Gary are.
You seem to be confused as to what is going on here, Trajan. You see, I am not making the assumptions and claims Gary is, nor those of sprintman. That is precisely because I do not consider what little testing I've done valid, nor would I consider their statements valid without evidence. I am questioning their assumptions and claims, not offering my own. If this is still unclear, I'd ask that you please reread all the posts I've made in this thread before asking for another explanation. I'd be happy to address any questions you have after doing so.
So, why haven't you documented your usage?
Apparently the bold didn't help, so:
Originally Posted By: moving2
I live in an apartment and do not have the place or tools to open up anything. The most I could do was peer into oil fill hole or look at the dipstick. The 2 times I saw my oil pan off were at a mechanic years before I ever joined this forum.
I didn't document my usage because I did not have the tools available to do so, I was not testing the product (on 500 vehicles over 7 years) as sprintman was, and I am not making the claims sprintman and Gary are.
You seem to be confused as to what is going on here, Trajan. You see, I am not making the assumptions and claims Gary is, nor those of sprintman. That is precisely because I do not consider what little testing I've done valid, nor would I consider their statements valid without evidence. I am questioning their assumptions and claims, not offering my own. If this is still unclear, I'd ask that you please reread all the posts I've made in this thread before asking for another explanation. I'd be happy to address any questions you have after doing so.
Posted Wed October 07 2009 09:50 PM Hide Post
If the Auto-Rx is that good,
sprintman Offline
$100 Site Supporter
Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 9832
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
We are too. About to order 5th and 6th cases (24 bottles per case).
Stephen, when you say we are about to order 5th and 6th cases of arx that has me puzzled. What are you doing with all of that arx, are you running 4 bottles of arx for the Clean Phase.
Even though you called me mental, I am just wondering why you buy so much arx, if arx has been used in 500 vehicles over 7 years in Australia you must have some sort of feedback.
If the Auto-Rx is that good,
sprintman Offline
$100 Site Supporter
Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 9832
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
We are too. About to order 5th and 6th cases (24 bottles per case).
Stephen, when you say we are about to order 5th and 6th cases of arx that has me puzzled. What are you doing with all of that arx, are you running 4 bottles of arx for the Clean Phase.
Even though you called me mental, I am just wondering why you buy so much arx, if arx has been used in 500 vehicles over 7 years in Australia you must have some sort of feedback.
I am interested in the possible benefits of using ARX in my ol Buick, which needs some P/S scrubbing and probably a little pre-flush cleaning action in the tranny.
Originally Posted By: Kaboomba
I am interested in the possible benefits of using ARX in my ol Buick, which needs some P/S scrubbing and probably a little pre-flush cleaning action in the tranny.
I just left an ounce of ARX in my powersteering for one year, which equals out to almost 12,000 miles, the powersteering fluid that was drained out was very DARK, I know I did a ROGUE APPLICATION, but when I left arx in my powersteering before I only had it in there for 1000 miles and I did see some cleaning, but I just wanted to leave it in longer.
This was on my 1983 Chevrolet El Camino, sprintman has said to run arx longer.
I am interested in the possible benefits of using ARX in my ol Buick, which needs some P/S scrubbing and probably a little pre-flush cleaning action in the tranny.
I just left an ounce of ARX in my powersteering for one year, which equals out to almost 12,000 miles, the powersteering fluid that was drained out was very DARK, I know I did a ROGUE APPLICATION, but when I left arx in my powersteering before I only had it in there for 1000 miles and I did see some cleaning, but I just wanted to leave it in longer.
This was on my 1983 Chevrolet El Camino, sprintman has said to run arx longer.
Originally Posted By: c3po
Posted Wed October 07 2009 09:50 PM Hide Post
If the Auto-Rx is that good,
sprintman Offline
$100 Site Supporter
Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 9832
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
We are too. About to order 5th and 6th cases (24 bottles per case).
Stephen, when you say we are about to order 5th and 6th cases of arx that has me puzzled. What are you doing with all of that arx, are you running 4 bottles of arx for the Clean Phase.
Even though you called me mental, I am just wondering why you buy so much arx, if arx has been used in 500 vehicles over 7 years in Australia you must have some sort of feedback.
sprintman- are you by chance an ARX distributor in Australia?
Posted Wed October 07 2009 09:50 PM Hide Post
If the Auto-Rx is that good,
sprintman Offline
$100 Site Supporter
Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 9832
Loc: Canberra ACT Australia
We are too. About to order 5th and 6th cases (24 bottles per case).
Stephen, when you say we are about to order 5th and 6th cases of arx that has me puzzled. What are you doing with all of that arx, are you running 4 bottles of arx for the Clean Phase.
Even though you called me mental, I am just wondering why you buy so much arx, if arx has been used in 500 vehicles over 7 years in Australia you must have some sort of feedback.
sprintman- are you by chance an ARX distributor in Australia?
I think he is.
Ron is. I discovered it, the cases go to him (he uses it in his service business). I give away the odd bottle and sold a few to Bradley at Cur-Mac in Sydney at cost as a friend. He's doing testing in his daughters neglected sludged car. I'll see if he wants to post results.
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Ron is. I discovered it, the cases go to him (he uses it in his service business). I give away the odd bottle and sold a few to Bradley at Cur-Mac in Sydney at cost as a friend. He's doing testing in his daughters neglected sludged car. I'll see if he wants to post results.
Thanks, sprintman, that would be great.
Ron is. I discovered it, the cases go to him (he uses it in his service business). I give away the odd bottle and sold a few to Bradley at Cur-Mac in Sydney at cost as a friend. He's doing testing in his daughters neglected sludged car. I'll see if he wants to post results.
Thanks, sprintman, that would be great.
Not really required when Ron and myself have seven years of results. At A$660 a case it better work!!
i think I should point out that removal of sludge and varnish is VERY important.
The reason: the lubrication system in any engine is designed with specific operating parameters and a set of assumptions in mind. The engine requires specific applied lubrication (flow @ pressure and temp) for a number of critical components.
As designed, the lubricaton system is adequate+slight overkill. When there is sludge and varnish, all bets are off. Even a slight constricting of a oil passage or pickup changes the balance of pressures among bearing surfaces and WILL LEAD TO PREMATURE WEAR OR FAILURE OF SOME KIND IN AT LEAST ONE AREA--no two ways about it!
Some points on oil pressure and sludge or varnish:
1. Sludge and varnish do not pump or lubricate well
2. Both tend to accumulate where there is a surface to bond with
3. usually this surface is warm or hot WRT other surfaces nearby
4. Sometimes this surface is in a oil passage (I believe this is more common than is comfortable), the oil pump, the oil pickup, or perhaps the oil pressure relief valve (causing it to stick open or closed, or have erratic operation)
5. In any above case, oil pressure is "low" (15-45 PSI) or "high" (100-150 PSI; these numbers are just examples) or out-of-spec, nearly always too low, all or part of the time either in the whole system or locally at some bearing surface
6. When oil pressure is too low at a bearing surface, the bearing surface is deprived of a lubricating film at the higher loads (60% power or more, maybe?), leading to metal-to-metal contact and fast wear.
This is why knowing the "factory" oil pressure spec for your car and checking against it periodically is important, and why it can be a great indicator of general internal condition (for example, worn-out main bearings allow oil to gush trough them, leading to lowered oil pressure).
So I am interested in Auto-RX because my Buick has weepy valve stem seals that have the potential to muck up the rings.
K
The reason: the lubrication system in any engine is designed with specific operating parameters and a set of assumptions in mind. The engine requires specific applied lubrication (flow @ pressure and temp) for a number of critical components.
As designed, the lubricaton system is adequate+slight overkill. When there is sludge and varnish, all bets are off. Even a slight constricting of a oil passage or pickup changes the balance of pressures among bearing surfaces and WILL LEAD TO PREMATURE WEAR OR FAILURE OF SOME KIND IN AT LEAST ONE AREA--no two ways about it!
Some points on oil pressure and sludge or varnish:
1. Sludge and varnish do not pump or lubricate well
2. Both tend to accumulate where there is a surface to bond with
3. usually this surface is warm or hot WRT other surfaces nearby
4. Sometimes this surface is in a oil passage (I believe this is more common than is comfortable), the oil pump, the oil pickup, or perhaps the oil pressure relief valve (causing it to stick open or closed, or have erratic operation)
5. In any above case, oil pressure is "low" (15-45 PSI) or "high" (100-150 PSI; these numbers are just examples) or out-of-spec, nearly always too low, all or part of the time either in the whole system or locally at some bearing surface
6. When oil pressure is too low at a bearing surface, the bearing surface is deprived of a lubricating film at the higher loads (60% power or more, maybe?), leading to metal-to-metal contact and fast wear.
This is why knowing the "factory" oil pressure spec for your car and checking against it periodically is important, and why it can be a great indicator of general internal condition (for example, worn-out main bearings allow oil to gush trough them, leading to lowered oil pressure).
So I am interested in Auto-RX because my Buick has weepy valve stem seals that have the potential to muck up the rings.
K
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Slap me if I get too long-winded.
It would be great to monitor oil pressure at idle and various RPM's before and after Auto-RX treatments. That would tell you a lot.
It would be great to monitor oil pressure at idle and various RPM's before and after Auto-RX treatments. That would tell you a lot.
Before/after compression test tells you everything you need to know. Seal rejuvenation is a bonus (my BMW is proof of that)
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Before/after compression test tells you everything you need to know.
+1
Oil pressure is good to monitor, but can vary with viscosities, and even with the same viscosity and different brands of oil.
Before/after compression test tells you everything you need to know.
+1
Oil pressure is good to monitor, but can vary with viscosities, and even with the same viscosity and different brands of oil.
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