http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847
Yep, kinda' obvious that gun bans don't work.
Yep, kinda' obvious that gun bans don't work.
Aussie gun laws - so as not to hijack Pablo
- Thread starter Shannow
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Kind of back on the Oz agenda today.
Carbon tax announced the other day, and the independents/greens who forced the issue have received some threatening phonecalls.
So instead of informing the cops (with their tapes of the alleged conversations), they hold press conferences, draw in recent US politician shooting, and state that this should result in a gun ban in Oz...
Feel so threatened that you call a press conference ?
Carbon tax announced the other day, and the independents/greens who forced the issue have received some threatening phonecalls.
So instead of informing the cops (with their tapes of the alleged conversations), they hold press conferences, draw in recent US politician shooting, and state that this should result in a gun ban in Oz...
Feel so threatened that you call a press conference ?
The core of this country has been changing right in front of our eyes. From the fiercely independent and self-sufficient to the passive beneficiaries of entitlements. And they bring more of welfare trash from abroad to shift the voter balance in their favour. And this is true for the both of our countries. I'd rather have another Red Lucy come here too. I lived in Melbourne then..
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Feel so threatened that you call a press conference ?
Never let a crisis go to waste.
Isn't it interesting that the greens are calling for gun control? If they want to control the air you exhale as a "pollutant" (killing the planet), it makes perfect sense that they don't trust you with an "evil" and dangerous gun.
Feel so threatened that you call a press conference ?
Never let a crisis go to waste.
Isn't it interesting that the greens are calling for gun control? If they want to control the air you exhale as a "pollutant" (killing the planet), it makes perfect sense that they don't trust you with an "evil" and dangerous gun.
Originally Posted By: Al
As far as the U.S is concerned. Collecting guns will never happen bc its just not possible. ...
I'm not so sure. Who would have ever thought the Australians would allow themselves to be disarmed?
If it can happen there, it can happen here. Many of the people who are charged with upholding our constitution hold it in contempt.
As far as the U.S is concerned. Collecting guns will never happen bc its just not possible. ...
I'm not so sure. Who would have ever thought the Australians would allow themselves to be disarmed?
If it can happen there, it can happen here. Many of the people who are charged with upholding our constitution hold it in contempt.
Originally Posted By: Win
I'm not so sure. Who would have ever thought the Australians would allow themselves to be disarmed?
If it can happen there, it can happen here. Many of the people who are charged with upholding our constitution hold it in contempt.
Yep. Ask Californians about gun confiscations...
I'm not so sure. Who would have ever thought the Australians would allow themselves to be disarmed?
If it can happen there, it can happen here. Many of the people who are charged with upholding our constitution hold it in contempt.
Yep. Ask Californians about gun confiscations...
That's how the ATF works, slowly introducing new and nonsensical regulations, a bit at a time, so not to cause a public outcry. They're insidious. Most of California's more ardent enthusiasts have been leaving the state over time. I like the example set by Mr. Barrett at Barrett Firearms, stating he would no longer sell or repair his rifles, denied to citizens, to the state government or local agencies in the state.
Originally Posted By: engineerscott
Unlike in many ways to our European progenitors who seem to have lapsed into a sort of vegetative state where they wait to be told what to do by their government.
The good news for the moment is that Australia is still basically a low crime country. But, rest assured that if that changes in the future the criminal element will not be deterred by your gun laws and you'll start to see the kind of armed criminal versus unarmed victim dynamic that has become such a rampant problem in the U.K. in recent years.
I have to disagree with your first statement. It's been my observation that Brits and Europeans in general are quite quick to take to the streets to criticize their government, (see the recent protests against increased tuition costs in the U.K. or changes to the Govt pension age in France)They are probably more militant in this respect than North Americans.
Regards your second statement; I do agree the U.K. is having a problem with some forms of violence, mostly linked to 'Binge Drinking' But "Rampant, armed criminal versus unarmed victim dynamic"??? I'd like to see you news source or stats: U.K. v U.S.A.
Unlike in many ways to our European progenitors who seem to have lapsed into a sort of vegetative state where they wait to be told what to do by their government.
The good news for the moment is that Australia is still basically a low crime country. But, rest assured that if that changes in the future the criminal element will not be deterred by your gun laws and you'll start to see the kind of armed criminal versus unarmed victim dynamic that has become such a rampant problem in the U.K. in recent years.
I have to disagree with your first statement. It's been my observation that Brits and Europeans in general are quite quick to take to the streets to criticize their government, (see the recent protests against increased tuition costs in the U.K. or changes to the Govt pension age in France)They are probably more militant in this respect than North Americans.
Regards your second statement; I do agree the U.K. is having a problem with some forms of violence, mostly linked to 'Binge Drinking' But "Rampant, armed criminal versus unarmed victim dynamic"??? I'd like to see you news source or stats: U.K. v U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: expat
I have to disagree with your first statement. It's been my observation that Brits and Europeans in general are quite quick to take to the streets to criticize their government, (see the recent protests against increased tuition costs in the U.K. or changes to the Govt pension age in France)They are probably more militant in this respect than North Americans.
Could be argued the other way: both are examples of welfare state cutting down the benefits. And both are the examples of the radical youth violence, even with the pensioners' cause in France. I also vividly remember demonstrations in Melbourne against the low grades in higher education as violation of human rights. Those were also quick to take their grievances to the streets. They needed to qualify for the "Youth Allowance" students get from Centerlink (AU Welfare Body). At least, they re-pay symbolic money back for their education there..
I have to disagree with your first statement. It's been my observation that Brits and Europeans in general are quite quick to take to the streets to criticize their government, (see the recent protests against increased tuition costs in the U.K. or changes to the Govt pension age in France)They are probably more militant in this respect than North Americans.
Could be argued the other way: both are examples of welfare state cutting down the benefits. And both are the examples of the radical youth violence, even with the pensioners' cause in France. I also vividly remember demonstrations in Melbourne against the low grades in higher education as violation of human rights. Those were also quick to take their grievances to the streets. They needed to qualify for the "Youth Allowance" students get from Centerlink (AU Welfare Body). At least, they re-pay symbolic money back for their education there..
I just gave those examples as recent Gripes. In the less recent past, Governments have fallen due to public pressure.
What I'm saying is, If there IS an Issue that really strikes a cord with the populace (I'm thinking of the U.K. Pole Tax of the 90's) the people do revolt en mass.
What I'm saying is, If there IS an Issue that really strikes a cord with the populace (I'm thinking of the U.K. Pole Tax of the 90's) the people do revolt en mass.
Originally Posted By: expat
In the less recent past, Governments have fallen due to public pressure.
Possibly Cabinets. Governments would be too dramatic.
Originally Posted By: expat
What I'm saying is, If there IS an Issue that really strikes a cord with the populace (I'm thinking of the U.K. Pole Tax of the 90's) the people do revolt en mass.
Aside from Brit Constitution Group and other anti-authoritarian fringe groups nobody is revolting.
Most Americans do not know that watching TV is a $200 annual privilege in UK. Welcome to TV License.
Anyway, going back to the gun rights: it is a litmus test here in US. I am not a gun person, but this is one of few ways I can tell the Gov to stay out of my life. The more you give them the more they will bite next time.
In the less recent past, Governments have fallen due to public pressure.
Possibly Cabinets. Governments would be too dramatic.
Originally Posted By: expat
What I'm saying is, If there IS an Issue that really strikes a cord with the populace (I'm thinking of the U.K. Pole Tax of the 90's) the people do revolt en mass.
Aside from Brit Constitution Group and other anti-authoritarian fringe groups nobody is revolting.
Most Americans do not know that watching TV is a $200 annual privilege in UK. Welcome to TV License.
Anyway, going back to the gun rights: it is a litmus test here in US. I am not a gun person, but this is one of few ways I can tell the Gov to stay out of my life. The more you give them the more they will bite next time.
Quote:
It's been my observation that Brits and Europeans in general are quite quick to take to the streets to criticize their government, (see the recent protests against increased tuition costs in the U.K. or changes to the Govt pension age in France)They are probably more militant in this respect than North Americans.
Notice how much more revolution and unrest they have had in Europe, than has occurred in the States?
Being dependent on the government brings this.
It's been my observation that Brits and Europeans in general are quite quick to take to the streets to criticize their government, (see the recent protests against increased tuition costs in the U.K. or changes to the Govt pension age in France)They are probably more militant in this respect than North Americans.
Notice how much more revolution and unrest they have had in Europe, than has occurred in the States?
Being dependent on the government brings this.
Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: engineerscott
Unlike in many ways to our European progenitors who seem to have lapsed into a sort of vegetative state where they wait to be told what to do by their government.
The good news for the moment is that Australia is still basically a low crime country. But, rest assured that if that changes in the future the criminal element will not be deterred by your gun laws and you'll start to see the kind of armed criminal versus unarmed victim dynamic that has become such a rampant problem in the U.K. in recent years.
I have to disagree with your first statement. It's been my observation that Brits and Europeans in general are quite quick to take to the streets to criticize their government, (see the recent protests against increased tuition costs in the U.K. or changes to the Govt pension age in France)They are probably more militant in this respect than North Americans.
Regards your second statement; I do agree the U.K. is having a problem with some forms of violence, mostly linked to 'Binge Drinking' But "Rampant, armed criminal versus unarmed victim dynamic"??? I'd like to see you news source or stats: U.K. v U.S.A.
Sure, Brits and Europeans will take to the streets when the government takes away a social welfare benefit, but will they take to the streets to protect their liberty? Frankly I don't see it, especially not on the continent.
Here's a table showing crime rates for the U.K. versus other countries. http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/07/02/article-1196941-05900DF7000005DC-677_468x636.jpg
For comparison, the violent crime rate for the U.S. was 469.2 per 100,000 residents in 2005 according to the FBI.
In particular, large cities in the U.K. have seen an increasing number of home invasions, and unlike the U.S. a much higher percentage of these home invasions happen when the homeowners are actually home. I have a friend that lived in London a few years ago and he was shocked at the number of occupied home invasions that were happening in certain sections of the city.
Read the statistics, the U.K. does indeed have a crime problem.
Originally Posted By: engineerscott
Unlike in many ways to our European progenitors who seem to have lapsed into a sort of vegetative state where they wait to be told what to do by their government.
The good news for the moment is that Australia is still basically a low crime country. But, rest assured that if that changes in the future the criminal element will not be deterred by your gun laws and you'll start to see the kind of armed criminal versus unarmed victim dynamic that has become such a rampant problem in the U.K. in recent years.
I have to disagree with your first statement. It's been my observation that Brits and Europeans in general are quite quick to take to the streets to criticize their government, (see the recent protests against increased tuition costs in the U.K. or changes to the Govt pension age in France)They are probably more militant in this respect than North Americans.
Regards your second statement; I do agree the U.K. is having a problem with some forms of violence, mostly linked to 'Binge Drinking' But "Rampant, armed criminal versus unarmed victim dynamic"??? I'd like to see you news source or stats: U.K. v U.S.A.
Sure, Brits and Europeans will take to the streets when the government takes away a social welfare benefit, but will they take to the streets to protect their liberty? Frankly I don't see it, especially not on the continent.
Here's a table showing crime rates for the U.K. versus other countries. http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/07/02/article-1196941-05900DF7000005DC-677_468x636.jpg
For comparison, the violent crime rate for the U.S. was 469.2 per 100,000 residents in 2005 according to the FBI.
In particular, large cities in the U.K. have seen an increasing number of home invasions, and unlike the U.S. a much higher percentage of these home invasions happen when the homeowners are actually home. I have a friend that lived in London a few years ago and he was shocked at the number of occupied home invasions that were happening in certain sections of the city.
Read the statistics, the U.K. does indeed have a crime problem.
"Read the statistics, the U.K. does indeed have a crime problem."
Granted, and it's shameful, But as far as I know the Homicide rate is still about 1/5 that of the U.S.
Many Brits, equate liberal Gun ownership with a high homicide rate, NOT freedom.
Granted, and it's shameful, But as far as I know the Homicide rate is still about 1/5 that of the U.S.
Many Brits, equate liberal Gun ownership with a high homicide rate, NOT freedom.
Real problem with crime statistics is the biases that enter their useage.
Down here, a suicide with a firearm is a gun related crime...suicide is on the increase, with a firearm on the decrease, but gun deaths are down.
An Australian's daughter officially has a 1:6 chance of sexual assault in their life (unofficially 1 in 4)...As a parent, I'd be happy to swap a statistical firearm homicide for the sexual assault of my daughter.
I'd also be happy to see the firearm homicide rate increase by 6 persons, when a bunch of thugs beat a wheelchair bound man into a fatal coma at a train station, by 1 when a teacher at my local primary school suffer facial and emotional scarring due to a teenager breaking into her home, by 2 when home invaders tied a family to chairs, then threatened the family with death to disclose the family jewels, PINs etc., killed one, then forced another family member to raid ATMs.
Sometimes, an increase in homicide rate is justified.
Down here, a suicide with a firearm is a gun related crime...suicide is on the increase, with a firearm on the decrease, but gun deaths are down.
An Australian's daughter officially has a 1:6 chance of sexual assault in their life (unofficially 1 in 4)...As a parent, I'd be happy to swap a statistical firearm homicide for the sexual assault of my daughter.
I'd also be happy to see the firearm homicide rate increase by 6 persons, when a bunch of thugs beat a wheelchair bound man into a fatal coma at a train station, by 1 when a teacher at my local primary school suffer facial and emotional scarring due to a teenager breaking into her home, by 2 when home invaders tied a family to chairs, then threatened the family with death to disclose the family jewels, PINs etc., killed one, then forced another family member to raid ATMs.
Sometimes, an increase in homicide rate is justified.
"I'd also be happy to see the firearm homicide rate increase by 6 persons, when a bunch of thugs beat a wheelchair bound man into a fatal coma at a train station, by 1 when a teacher at my local primary school suffer facial and emotional scarring due to a teenager breaking into her home, by 2 when home invaders tied a family to chairs, then threatened the family with death to disclose the family jewels, PINs etc., killed one, then forced another family member to raid ATMs."
No argument, I too would like to see SCUM like that removed, or at least face 'meaningful' punishment.
But prefer that they face a trial first!
Admittedly, there IS a problem in 'some' areas of the U.K. and (apparently) Oz, But feel that allowing public access to Hand guns may just add fuel to the fire.
Why these problems exist, is another question altogether. I think there may be several reasons, and no easy answers.
Statistics CAN be misleading, I'm thinking, 'Pinching a Girls Bottom' and the like, may not be acceptable behavior, but fear it may be now listed as a 'sexual Assault'. likewise what constitutes a 'Physical Assault' may, in practice, have changed over the years.
No argument, I too would like to see SCUM like that removed, or at least face 'meaningful' punishment.
But prefer that they face a trial first!
Admittedly, there IS a problem in 'some' areas of the U.K. and (apparently) Oz, But feel that allowing public access to Hand guns may just add fuel to the fire.
Why these problems exist, is another question altogether. I think there may be several reasons, and no easy answers.
Statistics CAN be misleading, I'm thinking, 'Pinching a Girls Bottom' and the like, may not be acceptable behavior, but fear it may be now listed as a 'sexual Assault'. likewise what constitutes a 'Physical Assault' may, in practice, have changed over the years.
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You pinched a girls bottom? Send the Mounties to expat!
Around here, you're a registered sexual offender if you get caught peeing on the side of the road or in an alley, or if you get caught skinny dipping in a pond or lake.
BTW, I always find it funny when some Canadians comment on gun control, crime, violent society.... It must be some sort of Utopia north of the border. Either that, or its akin to an ostrich with its head stuck in the sand.
In the US, scum doesn't get removed. They get tried, sentenced, rehabilitated, and released back into the population. And, the US is proof that this rehabilitation is a failure. Its also proof that if you don't defend yourself, you'll become a statistic.
Around here, you're a registered sexual offender if you get caught peeing on the side of the road or in an alley, or if you get caught skinny dipping in a pond or lake.
BTW, I always find it funny when some Canadians comment on gun control, crime, violent society.... It must be some sort of Utopia north of the border. Either that, or its akin to an ostrich with its head stuck in the sand.
In the US, scum doesn't get removed. They get tried, sentenced, rehabilitated, and released back into the population. And, the US is proof that this rehabilitation is a failure. Its also proof that if you don't defend yourself, you'll become a statistic.
Utopia?? I don't know.
But it IS safe to walk the streets at night. (I do, 10.30pm)
You don't 'need' to lock your doors at night. (We don't)
Never Been or Felt threatened in 30 years I've been here.
Statistics speak for themselves, but I suspect that our region/neighborhood may be better in that respect than some.
We HAVE had a Murder this year, but that was on the 'wrong side of town', 2am on a Sunday, house party, Yadda, Yadda, Yadda..
I dare say if I wanted trouble, I could find it.
Quote:
"Its also proof that if you don't defend yourself, you'll become a statistic."
Maybe where you live, but that's not my Idea of Freedom.
But it IS safe to walk the streets at night. (I do, 10.30pm)
You don't 'need' to lock your doors at night. (We don't)
Never Been or Felt threatened in 30 years I've been here.
Statistics speak for themselves, but I suspect that our region/neighborhood may be better in that respect than some.
We HAVE had a Murder this year, but that was on the 'wrong side of town', 2am on a Sunday, house party, Yadda, Yadda, Yadda..
I dare say if I wanted trouble, I could find it.
Quote:
"Its also proof that if you don't defend yourself, you'll become a statistic."
Maybe where you live, but that's not my Idea of Freedom.
Originally Posted By: expat
No argument, I too would like to see SCUM like that removed, or at least face 'meaningful' punishment.
But prefer that they face a trial first!
I'd love for them all to get to trial and be punished, but I'd rather that they didn't get to slice up a kindergarden teacher's face, when they had NO LAWFUL REASON for being in her house at 3AM etc. etc.
I'm in favour of potential victims having the ability to protect themselves during the act of the crime rather than being assaulted and killed in the process.
Originally Posted By: expat
But feel that allowing public access to Hand guns may just add fuel to the fire.
The crims already have them, and seem to have a limitless supply of them (State Police Farce had an entire container load of Glocks "go missing")...
Every morning, the news is another shooting in Sydney, with handguns, which are by and large illegal except for specific target purposes...and it's not the registered ones being used in crime.
No argument, I too would like to see SCUM like that removed, or at least face 'meaningful' punishment.
But prefer that they face a trial first!
I'd love for them all to get to trial and be punished, but I'd rather that they didn't get to slice up a kindergarden teacher's face, when they had NO LAWFUL REASON for being in her house at 3AM etc. etc.
I'm in favour of potential victims having the ability to protect themselves during the act of the crime rather than being assaulted and killed in the process.
Originally Posted By: expat
But feel that allowing public access to Hand guns may just add fuel to the fire.
The crims already have them, and seem to have a limitless supply of them (State Police Farce had an entire container load of Glocks "go missing")...
Every morning, the news is another shooting in Sydney, with handguns, which are by and large illegal except for specific target purposes...and it's not the registered ones being used in crime.
Originally Posted By: expat
Utopia?? I don't know.
But it IS safe to walk the streets at night. (I do, 10.30pm)
You don't 'need' to lock your doors at night. (We don't)
Never Been or Felt threatened in 30 years I've been here.
Statistics speak for themselves, but I suspect that our region/neighborhood may be better in that respect than some.
We HAVE had a Murder this year, but that was on the 'wrong side of town', 2am on a Sunday, house party, Yadda, Yadda, Yadda..
I dare say if I wanted trouble, I could find it.
This is true in most parts of the US too. What you see in the news is filtered or only focusing on bad areas of big cities. In talking with friends in UK, the US is made out to be the Wild West every day, which is quite laughable really. Are there bad areas of every town/city/metro area? Sure. Do we fear for our lives every day? No.
Utopia?? I don't know.
But it IS safe to walk the streets at night. (I do, 10.30pm)
You don't 'need' to lock your doors at night. (We don't)
Never Been or Felt threatened in 30 years I've been here.
Statistics speak for themselves, but I suspect that our region/neighborhood may be better in that respect than some.
We HAVE had a Murder this year, but that was on the 'wrong side of town', 2am on a Sunday, house party, Yadda, Yadda, Yadda..
I dare say if I wanted trouble, I could find it.
This is true in most parts of the US too. What you see in the news is filtered or only focusing on bad areas of big cities. In talking with friends in UK, the US is made out to be the Wild West every day, which is quite laughable really. Are there bad areas of every town/city/metro area? Sure. Do we fear for our lives every day? No.
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