ATF+3 vs. Atf+4?
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The difference is in the base oils used. The friction modification characteristics of the two fluids are the same.
If you just need a bottle of oil for top off, then I'd recommend you go to the dealer and buy a quart of ATF+4. If you're planning to change the fluid, the ATF+3 will work fine provided you ONLY use a good quality ATF+3. I'd recommend either Mobil or the Aamco branded ATF+3 (which is made by ExxonMobil and is the same fluid as the Mobil). You should be able to get the Aamco ATF+3 at AutoZone, which is where I got mine.
If you do switch to ATF+3 you will need to change it more often than ATF+4. The service life of ATF+3 is not as long as ATF+4. The max I'd go with ATF+3 is 30,000 miles, and if you do any towing make that 20,000 miles.
NB: See my recent posts about switching to ATF+3 in my 99 Chrysler 300M, which came from the factory with ATF+4 in it.
If you just need a bottle of oil for top off, then I'd recommend you go to the dealer and buy a quart of ATF+4. If you're planning to change the fluid, the ATF+3 will work fine provided you ONLY use a good quality ATF+3. I'd recommend either Mobil or the Aamco branded ATF+3 (which is made by ExxonMobil and is the same fluid as the Mobil). You should be able to get the Aamco ATF+3 at AutoZone, which is where I got mine.
If you do switch to ATF+3 you will need to change it more often than ATF+4. The service life of ATF+3 is not as long as ATF+4. The max I'd go with ATF+3 is 30,000 miles, and if you do any towing make that 20,000 miles.
NB: See my recent posts about switching to ATF+3 in my 99 Chrysler 300M, which came from the factory with ATF+4 in it.
What's the difference?
I have a 2003 Pt Cruiser. The manual says to use ATF+4, but I'm having a hard time finding it. NOne of the local autoparts stores carry it, but they do carry ATF+3. Would there be any problem with using ATF+3?
ALso, where can I find synthetic ATF+3/+4?
Thanks
I have a 2003 Pt Cruiser. The manual says to use ATF+4, but I'm having a hard time finding it. NOne of the local autoparts stores carry it, but they do carry ATF+3. Would there be any problem with using ATF+3?
ALso, where can I find synthetic ATF+3/+4?
Thanks
Brien-Use ATF+4. Your trans came with it and that's what is was designed to use. G-man is kinda doing his own thing here. No offense, but you are.
ATF+3 isn't officially compatible with transmissions that originally came with ATF+4. ATF+4 on the otherhand is compatible with the majority of Dodge's older transmissions.
ATF+3 isn't officially compatible with transmissions that originally came with ATF+4. ATF+4 on the otherhand is compatible with the majority of Dodge's older transmissions.
it almost seems like the performance characterisics of +3 & +4 are the same, just +4 base formula allows for longer drains.... this is what i gather at least
> +4 base formula allows for longer drains
that's my impression also. But this topic came up in another thread around here last week. It was about trans fluids in general. Someone had said they tried atf+3 in there chrysler/dodge vehicle which came with +4 and there was a lot of transmission shudder
correction, it was dexron in a chrysler tranny calling for atf+3.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=001951#000004
that's my impression also. But this topic came up in another thread around here last week. It was about trans fluids in general. Someone had said they tried atf+3 in there chrysler/dodge vehicle which came with +4 and there was a lot of transmission shudder
correction, it was dexron in a chrysler tranny calling for atf+3.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=001951#000004
That's pretty much it. ATF+3 should perform fine in any well-maintained Chrysler transmission that calls for ATF+4. It just doesn't have the service life of ATF+4. Therefore, if you're planning to go 100,000 miles between fluid change, then use ATF+4. If you plan to change every 20,000 to 30,000 miles, ATF+3 can potentially save you a lot of money.
NB: There are still a lot of so-so brands of ATF+3 out there. I would ONLY use a top quality name brand, and of those I would not recommend Valvoline. Use Mobil, AAMCO (made by ExxonMobil), Chevron, Havoline, or Pennzoil.
Around here the Dodge dealer sells ATF+4 for $4.50 per qt. If it were mine I would use the recommended fluid.
Here's the official info about +4 from Chrysler itself. Note they say the service life is NOT longer, so where some people are getting that info is probably questionable. Read the official TSB and make your own decision as to what you should or shouldn't run in your trans. The specific TSB below is for my Jeep, but that doesn't matter...the +4 info is the same for any Chrysler product. The bottom line is if your trans uses +4 (or came with +4), it should stay with +4 for the numerous benefits described within the TSB.
1997 Jeep Truck Wrangler L6-4.0L VIN S
Top - Vehicle
Technical Service Bulletins
. All Technical Service Bulletins
. . A/T - ATF Usage List
.
Notes
A/T - ATF Usage List
NUMBER: 21-004-04
GROUP: Transmission
DATE: March 16, 2004
THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 21-006-01, DATED JUNE 29, 2001, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. THIS IS A COMPLETE REVISION AND NO ASTERISKS HAVE BEEN ADDED TO HIGHLIGHT REVISIONS.
SUBJECT:
Automatic Transmission Fluid Usage ATF+4 (Type 9602)
MODELS:
NOTE : This bulletin applies to all transmissions manufactured by Chrysler except for 1999 and earlier minivans with the 41TE/AE transmission. This Service Bulletin DOES NOT apply to all AWD transmissions, Sprinter transmissions, Crossfire transmissions and WG bodies equipped with a W5J400 or NAGI transmission (sales code DGJ).
DISCUSSION:
A new transmission fluid (ATF+4(R) - Type 9602) has been developed and is being used as factory fill for all vehicles with Chrysler automatic transmissions. It is recommended that all vehicles with Chrysler automatic transmissions EXCEPT FOR THOSE LISTED ABOVE be serviced with ATF+4(R).
NOTE :ATF+4(R) must always be used in vehicles that were originally filled with ATF+4(R).
NOTE :Service intervals do not change. The service interval currently in effect for a given vehicle should continue to be followed.
NOTE :ATF+4(R) is compatible with ATF+3 and ATF+2. ATF+4(R) can be used to top off vehicles that currently have ATF+2 or ATF+3. Do not use ATF+2 or ATF+3 to top off vehicles that have ATF+4(R) fluid.
BENEFITS
^ Better anti-wear properties
^ Improved rust/corrosion prevention
^ Controls oxidation
^ Eliminates deposits
^ Controls friction
^ Retains anti-foaming properties
^ Superior properties for low temperature operation
FLUID COLOR
Mopar ATF+4(R) is a World Class Fluid having exceptional durability. However, the red dye used in ATF+4(R) is not permanent; as the fluid ages it may become darker or appear brown in color. ATF+4(R) also has a unique odor that may change with age. With ATF+4(R) fluid, color and odor are no longer indicators of fluid condition and do not support a fluid change.
PARTS REQUIRED:
POLICY:
Information Only
Disclaimer :This bulletin is supplied as technical information only and is not an authorization for repair.
Copyright © 2005 ALLDATA LLC
Terms of Use
1997 Jeep Truck Wrangler L6-4.0L VIN S
Top - Vehicle
Technical Service Bulletins
. All Technical Service Bulletins
. . A/T - ATF Usage List
.
Notes
A/T - ATF Usage List
NUMBER: 21-004-04
GROUP: Transmission
DATE: March 16, 2004
THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 21-006-01, DATED JUNE 29, 2001, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. THIS IS A COMPLETE REVISION AND NO ASTERISKS HAVE BEEN ADDED TO HIGHLIGHT REVISIONS.
SUBJECT:
Automatic Transmission Fluid Usage ATF+4 (Type 9602)
MODELS:
NOTE : This bulletin applies to all transmissions manufactured by Chrysler except for 1999 and earlier minivans with the 41TE/AE transmission. This Service Bulletin DOES NOT apply to all AWD transmissions, Sprinter transmissions, Crossfire transmissions and WG bodies equipped with a W5J400 or NAGI transmission (sales code DGJ).
DISCUSSION:
A new transmission fluid (ATF+4(R) - Type 9602) has been developed and is being used as factory fill for all vehicles with Chrysler automatic transmissions. It is recommended that all vehicles with Chrysler automatic transmissions EXCEPT FOR THOSE LISTED ABOVE be serviced with ATF+4(R).
NOTE :ATF+4(R) must always be used in vehicles that were originally filled with ATF+4(R).
NOTE :Service intervals do not change. The service interval currently in effect for a given vehicle should continue to be followed.
NOTE :ATF+4(R) is compatible with ATF+3 and ATF+2. ATF+4(R) can be used to top off vehicles that currently have ATF+2 or ATF+3. Do not use ATF+2 or ATF+3 to top off vehicles that have ATF+4(R) fluid.
BENEFITS
^ Better anti-wear properties
^ Improved rust/corrosion prevention
^ Controls oxidation
^ Eliminates deposits
^ Controls friction
^ Retains anti-foaming properties
^ Superior properties for low temperature operation
FLUID COLOR
Mopar ATF+4(R) is a World Class Fluid having exceptional durability. However, the red dye used in ATF+4(R) is not permanent; as the fluid ages it may become darker or appear brown in color. ATF+4(R) also has a unique odor that may change with age. With ATF+4(R) fluid, color and odor are no longer indicators of fluid condition and do not support a fluid change.
PARTS REQUIRED:
POLICY:
Information Only
Disclaimer :This bulletin is supplied as technical information only and is not an authorization for repair.
Copyright © 2005 ALLDATA LLC
Terms of Use
99, Many 2000 and early 2001 45RFE transmissions came with ATF+3 as factory fill. Mid-production once ATF+4 came along it was used in these same transmissions! A TSB went out basicly instructing customers and dealerships to use ATF+4 in place of ATF+3 upon first serviceing of the transmission. ATF+4 is backwards compatable with ATF+3. THe Cf is the same for the two fluids. ATF+4 has better cold and hot temp. performance and is more restant to oxidation. You can use ATF+3 anyplace ATF+4 is called for. I really do not see why you would want to do this though! ATF+4 is a really good fluid!!! What I like to do is order C+ATF from Redline. It is basicly an ATF+3 but with 100% synthetic base stocks and an addtive package on steroids! It is even better then ATF+4 and only cost's $6.95 a quart out the door. SOme DC dealerships sell ATF+4 for $4.95 out the door while others want $9.95 a quart. If you can get ATF+4 at $4.95 a quart from the dealer I would use ATF+4!
The drain interval with ATF+4 was not any longer then ATF+3 fromt he OEM. My 2001 Dakota called for a maxamium of 30,000 mile and my 45RFE trans had two trany filter one on each side.
ATF+3 is availbe at Walmart form Penzoil and Castrol. Autozone has Ammco and Valvoline ATF+3.
The drain interval with ATF+4 was not any longer then ATF+3 fromt he OEM. My 2001 Dakota called for a maxamium of 30,000 mile and my 45RFE trans had two trany filter one on each side.
ATF+3 is availbe at Walmart form Penzoil and Castrol. Autozone has Ammco and Valvoline ATF+3.
Not completely sure on the differences, but I will chime in on the price thing. I will be changing fluid and filter in my Grand Cherokee this weekend. I was debating using redline C+ATF, but it was hard to find. I called around to local Jeep/dodge/chrysler dealers and found a dodge dealer that sells it by the gallon for $16.20. Thats only $4.05 per quart! I dont think thats too bad, so I am staying with ATF+4. All the other dealers were running at about $17.80 or so per gallon.
Yep. That was never the argument. The argument is going from ATF+4 to ATF+3 in a trans that calls for ATF+4.
The TSB says not to use ATF+3 where ATF+4 is required. And the cycle continues...............I give up.
You can use ATF+3 anyplace ATF+4 is called for.
No. You SHOULD NOT use ATF+3 if your trans was original factory filled with ATF+4...TSB states use ATF+4. You CAN use ATF+4 where ATF+3 is called for. Done.
No. You SHOULD NOT use ATF+3 if your trans was original factory filled with ATF+4...TSB states use ATF+4. You CAN use ATF+4 where ATF+3 is called for. Done.
okay so its a more "durable" fluid. Some can interpret this as being able to more safely handle an extended drain, although the manufacturer doesnt advise this. If you fill your under-warranty Chrysler Whatever with M1 EP, the manufacturer will still tell you to drain it out at 3K miles; at least you would have had a good oil for 3K miles. I see this as nothing different than the generational improvements of Dexron and Mercon. If I had to top off an ATF+4 tranny with ATF+3, I wouldnt lose sleep over it, thats for sure.
We are not talking about what the TSB says! We are talking about practical application. Big Difference!! I do not think DC even sells ATF+3 anymore so of course they are going to push ATF+4!!!! My service writer tells a lot of people that are out of warranty to just go to Carquest and buy ATF+4 for their transmissions. We had a long talk about his one day. He volanteered this information I was not digging or anything! This is at a 5 Star DC dealership!
While I agree that ATF+3 is a step backwards in anything that came with ATF+4 the question is about campatability! ATF+3 is not going to cuase any type of premature wear as long as it is not allowed to oxidize!
While I agree that ATF+3 is a step backwards in anything that came with ATF+4 the question is about campatability! ATF+3 is not going to cuase any type of premature wear as long as it is not allowed to oxidize!
The TSB doesn't say anything about the "service life" of the fluid. It says that the drain intervals specified in your manual haven't changed just because you switch to ATF+4. The whole point in using better base oils for ATF+4 was to increase the fluid's service life.
Man, this topic about ATF+3 and ATF+4 has been beat to death!
Let me get my stick out and poke a little too!
That TSB is confusing and has been changed multiple times in the last couple years. The dealers' stance is to use ATF+4 in all DCX vehicles (excluding mercedes and AW trans). The local dealers here don't even refer to that TSB (at least when i pressed for more info).
I think the general consensus is USE ATF+4 if you can get it for a good price and want longer service intervals/or the benefits of a better oil, but IF fluid changes are no big deal for you AND ATF+3 is available from a quality source, it's not going to hurt a thing.
The only reason the dealer pushes ATF+4 is to simplify stocking. Our local dealers here only stock ATF+4 and keep it in both qt/gallon/barrel and bulk.
They are both good fluids and if you don't mind the extra cost of ATF+4, pour it in!
I would caution AGAINST dexron III + lubeguard HFM to make up at ATF+3/4-like fluid. It's not 100% and in some cases causes TCC shudder trouble.
DH
That TSB is confusing and has been changed multiple times in the last couple years. The dealers' stance is to use ATF+4 in all DCX vehicles (excluding mercedes and AW trans). The local dealers here don't even refer to that TSB (at least when i pressed for more info).
I think the general consensus is USE ATF+4 if you can get it for a good price and want longer service intervals/or the benefits of a better oil, but IF fluid changes are no big deal for you AND ATF+3 is available from a quality source, it's not going to hurt a thing.
The only reason the dealer pushes ATF+4 is to simplify stocking. Our local dealers here only stock ATF+4 and keep it in both qt/gallon/barrel and bulk.
They are both good fluids and if you don't mind the extra cost of ATF+4, pour it in!
I would caution AGAINST dexron III + lubeguard HFM to make up at ATF+3/4-like fluid. It's not 100% and in some cases causes TCC shudder trouble.
DH
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