At what point is it not worth working?

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Mark....I know you didn't want any attention. But I feel your pain.

I have horrible lower back issues....knee problems...carpal tunnel....and a messed up ankle. Sometimes I wonder when/if I will reach the end of my ability to work. Doctor has been almost useless...all of them. Surgery on my back was denied by insurance, but my doctor is supposed to be appealing that decision (it's been 8 weeks waiting).

My injuries are all of my own making. Type "A" person...worked too hard and didn't use my brains. Played hard at sports as well. All of my injuries could have been prevented.

I try and tell others younger than I to take very good care of the body....it needs to last a very long time.

Anyway...I'm way off topic here.
 
Originally Posted By: otis24
My wife has a cake business she started 3 yrs ago. She is building the business and things are getting better, but she shows a loss at the end of the year.

I work 3 jobs. The first job is 40/hrs per week and has retirement and other benefits. The second job is 15 hrs per week (sometimes less) and pays 65% of job one. To make ends meet I work a 3rd job, averaging about 15 hrs per week. The third job grosses me about $5500 per yr.

I Plan on asking the tax man to calculate what my refund would be if I didnt have the third source of income. Not working the third job, I would have weekends free. Figuring if the increase in my refund was equal to half of what I make working, I am wasting my time working to get ahead.

People wonder why I choose to work so much. I was always taught that you work to get by. If that means working a third job, you work a third job. The tough part is that if our tax system penalizes those that work
to get ahead and rewards those that choose not to work, why fight the system? Tired of being penalized for trying to better myself and take care of my family.


I am guessing by "refund" you mean child credits. It would be a good idea to run your 1040 with the scenario of removing the gross income and the withholding amounts and see how it affects your credits. You could do this easily with tax software if you file your own.

Also, calculate the expenses you incur for the 3rd job. Gasoline and vehicle depreciation come to mind. Your time with family, or the future impact of the overwork and stress on your health, is not readily monetized but you can assign some dollar values to that, too.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
turtlevette,

Is that breaking the law, stating you have 10 kids just to bend the IRS rules ?


Otis,
I agree you need time with your family.


Tax avoidance is legal. Tax evasion is not.

Plus, Turtlevette was not avoiding anything. He was minimizing the withholding amount throughout the year. But on April 15, if you owe the IRS more than a certain amount, you pay a penalty. I think it's about $1,000.

So, it's a silly and dangerous game to play if you don't run the numbers beforehand.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
turtlevette,

Is that breaking the law, stating you have 10 kids just to bend the IRS rules ?



No, its not bending the rules. There is a worksheet with your w4. If you get a 4000 refund you can zero that out by claiming 4 additional dependents.
 
I calculate your $5500 a year job at $7ish an hour, so your full time is what $10-$12?

Your already in a very low tax bracket, throw in a few write offs and if you make under $40k you shouldn't be paying much in taxes at all.

You can write off your wife's business loss, property taxes, kids, etc. You should be able to write off what $10k a year maybe? So now your bracket is down to $30k, taxes on that are maybe $5k off the top of my head.

The real issue is you have to work 70 hours a week to make it, since as you posted their are no good paying jobs in your area.
 
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Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
turtlevette,

Is that breaking the law, stating you have 10 kids just to bend the IRS rules ?

No, no laws is violated if withholding amount is within 10% of tax liability.
 
Our government's competence borders on outright purposeful sabotage.

The American dream used to be work hard and prosper. Be honest and fair. Raise a family. Live a full and rich life. Then the dream became, get a credit card, live now, who cares about tomorrow. Now the dream has become, scale down, live within your means so the government can take care of you and share your wealth with others. If there's something you need, you'll be notified by the government.
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Our government's competence borders on outright purposeful sabotage.

The American dream used to be work hard and prosper. Be honest and fair. Raise a family. Live a full and rich life. Then the dream became, get a credit card, live now, who cares about tomorrow. Now the dream has become, scale down, live within your means so the government can take care of you and share your wealth with others. If there's something you need, you'll be notified by the government.


WRONG. If you actually listen and live below your means, guess what? You won't need any assistance; from the gov't your family, friends, neighbors, whomever.

Yes we don't live in the '50's anymore where one income can pay for a car and mortgage. But we also own multiple cars, TVs, cell phones, computers, and on and on. Simply living in the USA puts you in the top 10% of the world for wealth.

If you're so anti- US gov't, why not move somewhere? Where are these utopian dreamlands of high standards of living and no gov't help or intervention?
 
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Our government's competence borders on outright purposeful sabotage.

The American dream used to be work hard and prosper. Be honest and fair. Raise a family. Live a full and rich life. Then the dream became, get a credit card, live now, who cares about tomorrow. Now the dream has become, scale down, live within your means so the government can take care of you and share your wealth with others. If there's something you need, you'll be notified by the government.


WRONG. If you actually listen and live below your means, guess what? You won't need any assistance; from the gov't your family, friends, neighbors, whomever.

Yes we don't live in the '50's anymore where one income can pay for a car and mortgage. But we also own multiple cars, TVs, cell phones, computers, and on and on. Simply living in the USA puts you in the top 10% of the world for wealth.

If you're so anti- US gov't, why not move somewhere? Where are these utopian dreamlands of high standards of living and no gov't help or intervention?


Actually you are quite correct here. We are so spoiled we believe we should have more when in fact we already enjoy the highest standard of living there is. Our "poor" have things that other country's citizens can only dream of...
 
Hey, if you move to Alaska, you can get the Alaska Permanent Dividend.
They get money just for living there, every year, I hear.
Last year's payment was roughly $2k.
That's nearly half the money you get from your third job, without having to lift a finger.

I hear Alaska is a pretty safe place to live, too.
Well, unless you get eaten by a bear, or something.
I'm assuming that there are places in Alaska where being eaten by a bear is less of a risk, though.

You need to look at your ENTIRE life, and figure out why you are having a hard time making ends meet.

I would start with your odd mental state that makes you believe that the place you currently live is the safest place in the entire US, and that its the only safe place to raise a family. That's the biggest load of nonsense in this entire thread.

Move to someplace where you can get a job that will earn you more money.
Simple as that.

If you're renting your house/apartment, you should consider purchasing instead.
Gets you an extra write-off on your taxes that most people who you are complaining about don't get on theirs, because they can't afford to buy a house.

Also, and I mean this very sincerely, if you smoke, drink, or do drugs, you're also throwing money down the toilet. Just stop drinking and smoking, and you save a fortune every month, plus you will be healthier. So many people just never look at their addictions, and really think about how much they spend on that.

Somehow, if you ever actually met one of the families that you think are getting money for nothing, while you "bust your butt with 3 jobs", and you actually saw and lived in the conditions that they are living in, you might think twice about how "easy" they have "made" things for themselves.

Life isn't easy for anyone.

Look at your vehicle choices.
Can you save money by changing the vehicles you currently own?
Maybe sell that 18 foot bass boat that never gets used, if this type of thing is applicable.
* -(My little sister and her husband needed a new car because the frame was rusting out, yet they bought a brand new bass boat instead. Priorities, people.)

I'm not going to say much on the whole children thing.
I don't have any, and that's how things will be when my life ends, but I do know the little buggers are EXPENSIVE. You shouldn't have more than you can afford to take care of, and that, in my opinion, is 85% of what's wrong with this country. Too many people have had too many kids, and then not knowing how they are going to make ends meet for the next 18+ years.

Good luck to you as you figure out what you are doing in life, and what you can do to make your life better, while not putting blame on the rest of society for your choices.

BC.
 
Not on your withholding.

If you tried to claim 10 kids on your return when you don't have them, you are in trouble.

IIRC, you can claim extra exemptions if you know you have many itemized deductions.

If I get within $100 of my actual tax bill, I think I've done a good job estimating my federal taxes.

No need to give Uncle Sam an interest free loan. We know he's not the best steward of our hard earned money.

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
turtlevette,

Is that breaking the law, stating you have 10 kids just to bend the IRS rules ?



No, its not bending the rules. There is a worksheet with your w4. If you get a 4000 refund you can zero that out by claiming 4 additional dependents.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Not on your withholding.

If you tried to claim 10 kids on your return when you don't have them, you are in trouble. No that's not what I'm doing.

IIRC, you can claim extra exemptions if you know you have many itemized deductions. Yes per the worksheet they provide.

If I get within $100 of my actual tax bill, I think I've done a good job estimating my federal taxes.

No need to give Uncle Sam an interest free loan. We know he's not the best steward of our hard earned money.

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
turtlevette,

Is that breaking the law, stating you have 10 kids just to bend the IRS rules ?



No, its not bending the rules. There is a worksheet with your w4. If you get a 4000 refund you can zero that out by claiming 4 additional dependents.


I feel like I'm being interrogated by the SS.
 
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Actually, you need to work harder and longer so you can have all the gadgets and other stuff or else you can't be happy. You could actually walk out to the mail box and miss a weather report or an update on the latest football score if you're not careful. Can you imagine driving all the way to work and not receiving one text? It would give you an understand of how Robinson Crusoe must have felt.

And about that house. If it's a perfect place to raise a family but your realtor tells you it's not a good investment then the heck with the family, keep looking.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Javacontour,

Yeah, I agree the IRS might come to his house and he ends up like Wesley Snipes or Willie Nelson...



Why don't they knock on Al Sharpton's door for the $4.5M that he owes the IRS? Is the collection process selective?
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Javacontour,

Yeah, I agree the IRS might come to his house and he ends up like Wesley Snipes or Willie Nelson...



He'll become a marijuana-smoking vampire hunter with a golden voice? He'll fit right in here at BITOG!
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter

I hear Alaska is a pretty safe place to live, too.
Well, unless you get eaten by a bear, or something.
I'm assuming that there are places in Alaska where being eaten by a bear is less of a risk, though....

BC.



Alaska is the single most dangerous state in the Union to live, although it does have the second highest median income in the country and yes, residents get a dividend of the oil profits each year. Those two months without daylight can be a drag though.

Quote:


1. Alaska
> Violent crimes per 100,000: 602.6
> Population: 735,132
> Total 2013 murders: 34 (11th lowest)
> Poverty rate: 9.3% (2nd lowest)
> Pct. of adults with high school diploma: 91.6% (tied-6th highest)

Alaska was the nation’s most dangerous state in 2013 and the only state with more than 600 violent crimes per 100,000 residents. Incidents of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter and rape both rose nearly 10% in 2013 from 2012, despite falling across the country in 2013. Alaska residents have struggled with sexual assault for years. According to a 2010 survey of Alaskan women, 37% of respondents reported being the victims of rape or sexual assault. As of 2013, rapes were reported nearly four times as frequently as they were nationwide.



Read more: The Most Dangerous States in America - 24/7 Wall St. http://247wallst.com/special-report/2015/01/02/the-most-dangerous-states-in-america-2/#ixzz3pOMcjnFR
Follow us: @247wallst on Twitter | 247wallst on Facebook
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
If your wife's business hasn't turned a profit in 3 years, then it's time to move on. Right now it's nothing more than a hobby, and I suspect a fairly expensive one.


Probably, but closing the door means the cash flow stops immediately, but the liabilities keep going on for a while, years, perhaps, in the case of a lease. If op doesn't have money to cover that, moving on can be harder than it sounds.
 
If you mess up your withholdings you will NOT be in trouble.
You can even declare to your employer to take $0 out of your paycheck for taxes. You are NOT be breaking any laws as long as long as you settle it up during your return.

All that happens is you pay extra underpayment penalty.

It's similar in concept to not paying off your credit card in full or taking a cash advance. You get hit with some fees/interest, but they don't take you to court or jail if you didn't pay your credit card.
In actuality, Uncle Sam is not nearly as onerous as credit cards. It's only like an extra 2% penalty (on what you shorted) versus like 25% from creditcards. Plus you owe that 2% over the period of the year, so on average you only owe half a year's interest

So for example, say you made $50,000, and your taxes comes out that you owe $10,000. If you had $0 in withholdings, your penalty is "only" going to be half a year*2% equals about an extra $100.

Sounds like a lot, but pales compared to the big nut of the 10,000 you said not to set aside from every paycheck throughout the year. $10,100 versus $10,000-either one is hard to swallow if you've spent all the money.

Calculations are still complex, this is just an example, I'm not precise , but it's not a huge penalty that will ruin you.
I was short $3000 one year, and only had to pay an extra $30 or so for the penalty at least that's what turbotax told me.

So if you really need a short term loan, using your withholdings and paying it back at the end of the year is a much better interest rate then going to a private lender... You just need to make sure you can pay it
 
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