An argument for 5k OCI

[Ihatetochangeoil]

Why 10K Miles Oil change may not be good!

Here's a video re why 10K miles (16K Km) is not good. Sorry Video is unavailable! o_O

bobistheoilguy.com

We just did 11 pages on this. Or am I hallucinating? Maybe. I'm on BITOG. Safe space for OCD on NOACK.

 

[ChrisD46]

Direct Injection Engine ?... The argument for a 4K OCI (especially if it's a Hyundai / Kia engine) .

 

[doublebase]

Just checked my dads truck and he’s at 310k on his 2011 F150 5.0. OCI’s have been 8-9k miles and every other oil change a new fram ultra. Most oil changes have been with supertech synthetic but also some valvoline, pennzoil or others thrown in when rebates made it worthwhile.

View attachment 111289

This^^^ is what I think we need, people that actually have 200,000 plus miles on their vehicles doing 10,000 mile intervals. I just don’t see enough of them...perhaps a designated thread with photos, etc?

I will say this - I did 3,000 mile intervals using 5W30 conventional in my old Honda Accord with the 2.5 liter (I think, it’s been so long I don’t remember the engine size) vtec 4 cylinder. Every single time...3,000 miles, new oil and filter...on the dot. And at 270,000 miles it was drinking oil. Was stalling when coming to a stop or slowing down. Idle would get very low and just conk out. By 289,000 miles I was putting around a full quart in it every 500 miles. So, the 3,000 mile oil changes did nothing to prevent an engine from wearing out, despite an EASY daily highway commute and a very easy life (This car never saw city driving). Honda engine, well maintained and babied, done at 289,000 miles, despite very frequent oil changes.

Now would it have lasted longer on synthetic? I don’t know. I never put synthetic in it. Synthetic really wasn’t as mainstream back in 1999 when I bought the Accord new.and was the engine actually wiped out? I’m not sure. Felt like rings were done. I couldn’t figure why the low idle...cleaned throttle body, IAC motor, plugs were good, no vacuum leaks. I didn’t do a vacuum test or a compression test. Didn’t care to at 289,000 miles. Rust was taking over and it needed brake and fuel lines for the second time. Loved that car though!

 

[JohnnyG]

Since this was recently reposted for the fourth time, I have a question.
I also haven't replied to this particular thread, but maybe a different one.
At any rate, I didn't ask this question.

What make a difference on how frequently you change you oil in this case?
If a certain oil formulation is going to burn in the ringpack due to excessive heat, won't NEW oil be just a susceptible to that heat as old oil?

 

[doublebase]

Since this was recently reposted for the fourth time, I have a question.
I also haven't replied to this particular thread, but maybe a different one.
At any rate, I didn't ask this question.

What make a difference on how frequently you change you oil in this case?
If a certain oil formulation is going to burn in the ringpack due to excessive heat, won't NEW oil be just a susceptible to that heat as old oil?

Honestly, know what I’m doing? I’m giving a different answer and opinion on each thread.

Seriously, to answer your question with my opinion...I guess you could say newer oil won’t be as susceptible to heat, as much as older oil with more use/miles on it. 5,000 miles vs 10,000 miles. For most oils.

 

[BigShug681]

This^^^ is what I think we need, people that actually have 200,000 plus miles on their vehicles doing 10,000 mile intervals. I just don’t see enough of them...perhaps a designated thread with photos, etc?

I will say this - I did 3,000 mile intervals using 5W30 conventional in my old Honda Accord with the 2.5 liter (I think, it’s been so long I don’t remember the engine size) vtec 4 cylinder. Every single time...3,000 miles, new oil and filter...on the dot. And at 270,000 miles it was drinking oil. Was stalling when coming to a stop or slowing down. Idle would get very low and just conk out. By 289,000 miles I was putting around a full quart in it every 500 miles. So, the 3,000 mile oil changes did nothing to prevent an engine from wearing out, despite an EASY daily highway commute and a very easy life (This car never saw city driving). Honda engine, well maintained and babied, done at 289,000 miles, despite very frequent oil changes.

Now would it have lasted longer on synthetic? I don’t know. I never put synthetic in it. Synthetic really wasn’t as mainstream back in 1999 when I bought the Accord new.and was the engine actually wiped out? I’m not sure. Felt like rings were done. I couldn’t figure why the low idle...cleaned throttle body, IAC motor, plugs were good, no vacuum leaks. I didn’t do a vacuum test or a compression test. Didn’t care to at 289,000 miles. Rust was taking over and it needed brake and fuel lines for the second time. Loved that car though!

We have 142k miles on our 2017 Ford Escape 2.0 Ecoboost and since we bought it at 20k miles it’s only had 15k ish mile OCIs. We have zero issues with the car, no oil usage or rough idle from carbon build up on the valves. I’d wager it’s in equal condition as the same engine on 3k mile OCIs

 

[doublebase]

We have 142k miles on our 2017 Ford Escape 2.0 Ecoboost and since we bought it at 20k miles it’s only had 15k ish mile OCIs. We have zero issues with the car, no oil usage or rough idle from carbon build up on the valves. I’d wager it’s in equal condition as the same engine on 3k mile OCIs

Tell you what, you guys on the extended oil changes are convincing me more and more to keep extending mine.

 

[nomas]

My Oil change reminder on my Titan PU is set at the factory for 5k . The manual also specifies 5k OCI . It's still under warranty so I'm sticking with that for the time being . After the warranty expires I'll probably stretch it out a little bit .

 

[billt460]

What I took out of this video, was he showed that cylinders #1 and #4 were the cylinders that had scoring, along with gunked up and frozen oil rings, that caused the engine to self destruct by severely scoring the cylinder walls.

Cylinders #1 and #4 were also the same cylinders that had their oil cooling nozzles clog up, thereby preventing the bottom of the pistons from being spray cooled by oil. The resulting overheating of the piston caused the oil rings to gunk up and seize, causing the scoring.

Cylinders #2 and #3 that had their oil cooling nozzles continue working did not have this piston overheating issue, and subsequent cylinder scoring problem. The question then becomes would those nozzles have clogged up had he changed his oil at 5,000 miles, instead of 10,000 miles?

My guess is there is a very good chance they would not have, and that engine would be motoring along today just fine on all 4 cylinders.

 

[billt460]

If a certain oil formulation is going to burn in the ringpack due to excessive heat, won't NEW oil be just a susceptible to that heat as old oil?

The oil formulation did not burn the rings. Having the oil cooling nozzles clog up did. (On the same 2 cylinders that experienced the cylinder wall scoring).

Would that have happened if he had changed the oil and filter twice as frequently?

 

[BigShug681]

What I took out of this video, was he showed that cylinders #1 and #4 were the cylinders that had scoring, along with gunked up and frozen oil rings, that caused the engine to self destruct by severely scoring the cylinder walls.

Cylinders #1 and #4 were also the same cylinders that had their oil cooling nozzles clog up, thereby preventing the bottom of the pistons from being spray cooled by oil. The resulting overheating of the piston caused the oil rings to gunk up and seize, causing the scoring.

Cylinders #2 and #3 that had their oil cooling nozzles continue working did not have this piston overheating issue, and subsequent cylinder scoring problem. The question then becomes would those nozzles have clogged up had he changed his oil at 5,000 miles, instead of 10,000 miles?

My guess is there is a very good chance they would not have, and that engine would be motoring along today just fine on all 4 cylinders.

Sounds like a design flaw

The oil formulation did not burn the rings. Having the oil cooling nozzles clog up did. (On the same 2 cylinders that experienced the cylinder wall scoring).

Would that have happened if he had changed the oil and filter twice as frequently?

probably since it seems to be a design flaw or possibly faulty parts

 

[billt460]

Sounds like a design flaw

probably since it seems to be a design flaw or possibly faulty parts

How is a clogged oil nozzle a "design flaw" or a "faulty part"?

 

[GSCJR]

Just checked my dads truck and he’s at 310k on his 2011 F150 5.0.

Thank you for posting this detail. My dad bought a 2012 F150 5.0L with 390k Kms. against my advice recently. The oil pressure light comes on when hot and waiting at a traffic signal plus, it looks like someone already changed the oil sender.

 

[Elkins45]

That engine doesn’t have a history of problems with nozzle clogging or oil burning, so it’s hard to call it a design flaw.
Unlike the 2az-fe which clearly was a design flaw.

 

[BigShug681]

That engine doesn’t have a history of problems with nozzle clogging or oil burning, so it’s hard to call it a design flaw.
Unlike the 2az-fe which clearly was a design flaw.

It’s hard to simply base a clogged nozzle on an engine with 180k and remarkably clean internals on an OCI over 5k miles as well

 

[JohnnyG]

Honestly, know what I’m doing? I’m giving a different answer and opinion on each thread.

Seriously, to answer your question with my opinion...I guess you could say newer oil won’t be as susceptible to heat, as much as older oil with more use/miles on it. 5,000 miles vs 10,000 miles. For most oils.

So, nobody knows, or nobody is willing to say.
I doubt that the ring pack drain holes plugged up due to particle accumulation. Nothing that big would pass through a filter, unless in bypass, which I seriously doubt would happen in 10,000 miles.
This plugging that you see is due to heat, and is a by product of engine design. Excessive heat in the ring area.

 

[JohnnyG]

The oil formulation did not burn the rings. Having the oil cooling nozzles clog up did. (On the same 2 cylinders that experienced the cylinder wall scoring).

Would that have happened if he had changed the oil and filter twice as frequently?

Well this is most likely the case. I didn't see that the oil nozzles were plugged. Pretty straight forward.

 

[dogememe]

No idea, but I do about 10K intervals using random brands of synthetic, and I don't use expensive filters either, and my vehicle doesn't burn any oil or have any issues. Sure, it's only at 130K, but I plan to keep this slow turd until the wheels fall off, so I'll report back at 200K... and I'm sure it'll be the same story.

Now, that's with an NA port injected injected engine. DI or turbo, I'd be changing my oil every 5K.

I do run my vehicles hard, really hard, and both long trips and many short trips.

 

[OVERKILL]

So, nobody knows, or nobody is willing to say.
I doubt that the ring pack drain holes plugged up due to particle accumulation. Nothing that big would pass through a filter, unless in bypass, which I seriously doubt would happen in 10,000 miles.
This plugging that you see is due to heat, and is a by product of engine design. Excessive heat in the ring area.

"Back in the day" Toyota produced an engine that was, like the Saturn 1.9L, fitted with too small, and too few, oil drain holes in the oil control ring area. These would plug up with oxidized/degraded coke produced in this area and eventually stop draining. The rings would then stop moving and get packed into their grooves and the oil control function disappeared, resulting in significant consumption.

 

[JohnnyG]

"Back in the day" Toyota produced an engine that was, like the Saturn 1.9L, fitted with too small, and too few, oil drain holes in the oil control ring area. These would plug up with oxidized/degraded coke produced in this area and eventually stop draining. The rings would then stop moving and get packed into their grooves and the oil control function disappeared, resulting in significant consumption.

Pretty much the same issue existed on the Northstar, but I've been told that since those "back in the day" times, VII's have been improved to withstand much higher temperatures. The Northstar was one of the early GM designs that had the rings moved much closer to the combustion chamber, hence higher temps in the rings, followed by coking of the additives. One solution (then) was to use an oil with much less viscosity range, and therefore fewer VII's. Additionally, synthetic oils were just starting to become accepted as well.

It's pretty obvious in this case that Toyota was concerned with piston temps too, hence the oil squirters under the piston to keep them cool. The real problem is not why should we not use 10,000 mi oil changes, but what caused those squirters to plug.