Amsoil SSO vs. PP 5W-30, 8319 mi, 1997 Honda Civic
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Originally Posted By: njohnson
The Amsoil SSO had about 25-30% city driving with the rest rural highway driving. Cruising speeds on the highway was 55-60 mph.
The SSO has a more reasonable time span. The PP looks like you did 1000+/week
Quote:
2. The Penzoil Platinum was run from March to mid-April of this year while the SSO went from mid-April to now
The first column was the Amsoil@8,319 miles and the second column was the Penzoil Platinum@7,541 miles. Any thoughts or comments?
7500 from March 1st though mid span of April is all of 6 weeks 8300/18 weeks (2weeks for April and 4 full months) for the SSO or 450/week+/-.
There's probably a typo in there somewhere
The Amsoil SSO had about 25-30% city driving with the rest rural highway driving. Cruising speeds on the highway was 55-60 mph.
The SSO has a more reasonable time span. The PP looks like you did 1000+/week
Quote:
2. The Penzoil Platinum was run from March to mid-April of this year while the SSO went from mid-April to now
The first column was the Amsoil@8,319 miles and the second column was the Penzoil Platinum@7,541 miles. Any thoughts or comments?
7500 from March 1st though mid span of April is all of 6 weeks 8300/18 weeks (2weeks for April and 4 full months) for the SSO or 450/week+/-.
There's probably a typo in there somewhere
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
What's hiding? Just curious...
Esters?
What's hiding? Just curious...
Esters?
Esters, AO's, ashless AW additives etc. PP has esters too btw.
PP has such value and performance because they use Shells famous Group III base oils in conjunction with a top notch additive package. The Group III+ base oil they use may not be good for 20k miles, but for reasonable drain intervals it will hold up as good as any PAO based oil IMO. UOA's show this to be the case.
PP has such value and performance because they use Shells famous Group III base oils in conjunction with a top notch additive package. The Group III+ base oil they use may not be good for 20k miles, but for reasonable drain intervals it will hold up as good as any PAO based oil IMO. UOA's show this to be the case.
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PP is a great value (or was an even greater value in the past). It's just a YMMV oil for extended drains. Some engines do well with it @ 10k+ ..some do not. GC is the same way. Some can get 15k+ out of it ..others are hard pressed to get 10k with 7500 being good.
I'd like to get the time span confusion straightened out. @ 1200/week I'm surprised that TBN isn't close to virgin for PP. But, even @ 450/week I'm surprised that SSO took that much of a hit.
There's probably some interaction with the doses of LC/FP that's altering our view.
It would be nice to see both "straight up".
I'd like to get the time span confusion straightened out. @ 1200/week I'm surprised that TBN isn't close to virgin for PP. But, even @ 450/week I'm surprised that SSO took that much of a hit.
There's probably some interaction with the doses of LC/FP that's altering our view.
It would be nice to see both "straight up".
There's some UOAs on here where engines hard on oil have chewed up SSO pretty bad under 10K miles too though.
I still think SSO's add pack looks surprisingly light, esters and AN's don't take the place of moly, boron, zinc, phos, etc. Look at RedLine, loaded with esters and all the good stuff.
I still think SSO's add pack looks surprisingly light, esters and AN's don't take the place of moly, boron, zinc, phos, etc. Look at RedLine, loaded with esters and all the good stuff.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
There's some UOAs on here where engines hard on oil have chewed up SSO pretty bad under 10K miles too though.
I still think SSO's add pack looks surprisingly light, esters and AN's don't take the place of moly, boron, zinc, phos, etc. Look at RedLine, loaded with esters and all the good stuff.
Can we see those examples?
Comparing a racing oil pre SM oil to an SM oil is just plain silly. Is this what BITOG has come to? Wow.
There's some UOAs on here where engines hard on oil have chewed up SSO pretty bad under 10K miles too though.
I still think SSO's add pack looks surprisingly light, esters and AN's don't take the place of moly, boron, zinc, phos, etc. Look at RedLine, loaded with esters and all the good stuff.
Can we see those examples?
Comparing a racing oil pre SM oil to an SM oil is just plain silly. Is this what BITOG has come to? Wow.
I'm talking about RedLine's street oils, not their racing oils.
There's been a couple different UOAs of SSO that I have seen here that have looked pretty beat up under 10K miles. I'm sure you've seen them, are you denying that SSO doesn't stand up well to long OCIs in every engine out there? Not all engines are extended drain candidates, no matter the oil.
Unfortunately, the search engine here still sucks. This is not one of the UOAs I am thinking of, but it shows SSO's TBN at 2.1 at ~8K miles in an engine that isn't particularly hard on oil.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1519299&page=1
There's been a couple different UOAs of SSO that I have seen here that have looked pretty beat up under 10K miles. I'm sure you've seen them, are you denying that SSO doesn't stand up well to long OCIs in every engine out there? Not all engines are extended drain candidates, no matter the oil.
Unfortunately, the search engine here still sucks. This is not one of the UOAs I am thinking of, but it shows SSO's TBN at 2.1 at ~8K miles in an engine that isn't particularly hard on oil.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1519299&page=1
I know you are talking about Redline's street oils, but they are real street/race oils. You are comparing an SJ type formulation to an SM type formulation. Makes little sense.
OK, then post the links if you are making a point. You are the one that wrote the statement, I'm not sure which UOA's you are talking about. I'm not saying anything either way - extended OCI's on some engines may be 2X the recommended OCI. And yes some oils will do better at that 2X than other oils.
OK, then post the links if you are making a point. You are the one that wrote the statement, I'm not sure which UOA's you are talking about. I'm not saying anything either way - extended OCI's on some engines may be 2X the recommended OCI. And yes some oils will do better at that 2X than other oils.
Previous post was edited. The search engine needs help, and that is not one of the particular UOAs I had in mind.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
OK, then post the links if you are making a point. You are the one that wrote the statement, I'm not sure which UOA's you are talking about.
So, even though I'm sure you've seen instances similar to what I am referring to (being an Amsoil site sponsor and dealer), you're just going to play dumb because I didn't post links? Is that really what this site has come to?
Originally Posted By: Pablo
OK, then post the links if you are making a point. You are the one that wrote the statement, I'm not sure which UOA's you are talking about.
So, even though I'm sure you've seen instances similar to what I am referring to (being an Amsoil site sponsor and dealer), you're just going to play dumb because I didn't post links? Is that really what this site has come to?
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I still think SSO's add pack looks surprisingly light, esters and AN's don't take the place of moly, boron, zinc, phos, etc. Look at RedLine, loaded with esters and all the good stuff.
You are comparing apples to oranges though. SSO is an API SM oil. RL is an SJ oil (or is it SL?). Moly & boron are not the only additives either. SSO has ZDP.
I still think SSO's add pack looks surprisingly light, esters and AN's don't take the place of moly, boron, zinc, phos, etc. Look at RedLine, loaded with esters and all the good stuff.
You are comparing apples to oranges though. SSO is an API SM oil. RL is an SJ oil (or is it SL?). Moly & boron are not the only additives either. SSO has ZDP.
Pablo and buster, I am NOT comparing Amsoil to RedLine! I was comparing SSO's add pack to PP's, which is an SM oil. No apples to oranges comparison coming from me, guys.
I only brought up RedLine to show that esters do not necessarily take the place of a good add pack. I don't see how my post is that hard to follow.
I only brought up RedLine to show that esters do not necessarily take the place of a good add pack. I don't see how my post is that hard to follow.
Wow. I ask for evidence. You say I "play dumb".
I had seen that UOA, but I would not say Brooklyn driving is easy on any oil. Still, I have not seen the examples you speak of.
I had seen that UOA, but I would not say Brooklyn driving is easy on any oil. Still, I have not seen the examples you speak of.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Pablo and buster, I am NOT comparing Amsoil to RedLine! I was comparing SSO's add pack to PP's, which is an SM oil. No apples to oranges comparison coming from me, guys.
I only brought up RedLine to show that esters do not necessarily take the place of a good add pack. I don't see how my post is that hard to follow.
Quote:
....esters and AN's don't take the place of moly, boron, zinc, phos, etc. Look at RedLine, loaded with esters and all the good stuff.
Pablo and buster, I am NOT comparing Amsoil to RedLine! I was comparing SSO's add pack to PP's, which is an SM oil. No apples to oranges comparison coming from me, guys.
I only brought up RedLine to show that esters do not necessarily take the place of a good add pack. I don't see how my post is that hard to follow.
Quote:
....esters and AN's don't take the place of moly, boron, zinc, phos, etc. Look at RedLine, loaded with esters and all the good stuff.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Still, I have not seen the examples you speak of.
You've never seen SSO look pretty much shot under 10K miles?
I just provided you one example, I've seen worse, I'm fairly certain you have as well. What else would you call it?
Still, I have not seen the examples you speak of.
You've never seen SSO look pretty much shot under 10K miles?
I just provided you one example, I've seen worse, I'm fairly certain you have as well. What else would you call it?
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Pablo and buster, I am NOT comparing Amsoil to RedLine! I was comparing SSO's add pack to PP's, which is an SM oil. No apples to oranges comparison coming from me, guys.
I only brought up RedLine to show that esters do not necessarily take the place of a good add pack. I don't see how my post is that hard to follow.
Quote:
....esters and AN's don't take the place of moly, boron, zinc, phos, etc. Look at RedLine, loaded with esters and all the good stuff.
Now now, Pablo, looks look at the entire line of responses which makes the context of my "comparison" clear.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: pickled
I doubt we can actually see all the goodies that they put into that $10/quart oil in the $20 analysis that we do.
What's hiding? Just curious...
Originally Posted By: buster
Esters, AO's, ashless AW additives etc. PP has esters too btw.
PP has such value and performance because they use Shells famous Group III base oils in conjunction with a top notch additive package. The Group III+ base oil they use may not be good for 20k miles, but for reasonable drain intervals it will hold up as good as any PAO based oil IMO. UOA's show this to be the case.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I still think SSO's add pack looks surprisingly light, esters and AN's don't take the place of moly, boron, zinc, phos, etc. Look at RedLine, loaded with esters and all the good stuff.
"...RedLine, loaded with esters and all the good stuff."
I was only trying to show that some ester rich oils still have a lot of additives.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Pablo and buster, I am NOT comparing Amsoil to RedLine! I was comparing SSO's add pack to PP's, which is an SM oil. No apples to oranges comparison coming from me, guys.
I only brought up RedLine to show that esters do not necessarily take the place of a good add pack. I don't see how my post is that hard to follow.
Quote:
....esters and AN's don't take the place of moly, boron, zinc, phos, etc. Look at RedLine, loaded with esters and all the good stuff.
Now now, Pablo, looks look at the entire line of responses which makes the context of my "comparison" clear.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: pickled
I doubt we can actually see all the goodies that they put into that $10/quart oil in the $20 analysis that we do.
What's hiding? Just curious...
Originally Posted By: buster
Esters, AO's, ashless AW additives etc. PP has esters too btw.
PP has such value and performance because they use Shells famous Group III base oils in conjunction with a top notch additive package. The Group III+ base oil they use may not be good for 20k miles, but for reasonable drain intervals it will hold up as good as any PAO based oil IMO. UOA's show this to be the case.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I still think SSO's add pack looks surprisingly light, esters and AN's don't take the place of moly, boron, zinc, phos, etc. Look at RedLine, loaded with esters and all the good stuff.
"...RedLine, loaded with esters and all the good stuff."
I was only trying to show that some ester rich oils still have a lot of additives.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Still, I have not seen the examples you speak of.
You've never seen SSO look pretty much shot under 10K miles?
I just provided you one example, I've seen worse, I'm fairly certain you have as well. What else would you call it?
So post them up. Here's the first ones in my search:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1436755
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1471843
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1481241
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1494177
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1522456
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1553881
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Still, I have not seen the examples you speak of.
You've never seen SSO look pretty much shot under 10K miles?
I just provided you one example, I've seen worse, I'm fairly certain you have as well. What else would you call it?
So post them up. Here's the first ones in my search:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1436755
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1471843
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1481241
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1494177
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1522456
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1553881
On one hand I know what you are saying, but you did compare SSO add pack to Redline.....you just seem to be dancing after the fact now.
Quote:
I still think SSO's add pack ......Look at RedLine, loaded with esters and all the good stuff.
The fact that you are depending on B/S for accurate P and Zn is pretty funny too.
Quote:
I still think SSO's add pack ......Look at RedLine, loaded with esters and all the good stuff.
The fact that you are depending on B/S for accurate P and Zn is pretty funny too.
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