Does anyone use the (AEF) before an oil change?
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Amsoil Engine Flush
- Thread starter noi8u
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It was good stuff before they changed it's formula...Now I could not tell you for sure if it is any good. Personely if it where me I would go to Walmart or AutoZone with Walmart being the cheapest place and pick up 1 pint of B12 Chemtool. B12 Chemtool is the closet thing onthe market to the old formula that Amsoil used for well over 20+ years in it's flush. B12 is just a tad stronger. I always use the entire pint when flushing 1/2 a pint is not strong enough. In fact 1 pint per 4 quarts of oil so if you car holds 6-8 quarts then you would need 1.5 to 2 pints of B12. Always add it to a cold engine and then start and run at fast idle for 30 minutes. I think B12 Chemtool is around $2.75 a pint at Walmart! It is great at cleaning carbon and hard crusty build up from inside an engine. As a kid I would pour some in a mason jar stick carbonized up valves in it and go smoke a cig. and when I came back most of the carbon would have dissolved off the valves!Do not get it on paint and avoid direct contact for long periods on your skin. I have used that stuff since 1988 on my vehicles,customer vehicles, friends and family members vehicles and I have never once had a seal damaged by it or spun a bearing or any of the other insane wild stories people tell about flushing!As far as chemical flush's go B12 Chemtool is about the best thing on the market for chemicaly flushing dirty engines. It is not the best technology though I think it is safe to say that Auto-Rx has pretty much made the days of strong solvent flushes obsolete other then the huge difference in price point! Also keep in mind that I tell people never to do a chemical flush more then once every 50K-70K first if you are maintaining your engine you should not be getting that many deposits and second all chemical flushes that use solvents increase the wear rate during the flushing procedure so you have to weight the state of cleanliness versus the accelerated wear during the 30 minute flush procedure.
If you are worried about keeping an engine clean I think the use of a speciality product like Lube Control would make more sense then routine flushing. It is excellent at keeping an already clean engine spotless inside even when useing dino oil!
If you are worried about keeping an engine clean I think the use of a speciality product like Lube Control would make more sense then routine flushing. It is excellent at keeping an already clean engine spotless inside even when useing dino oil!
i use it all the time at work before installing amsoil and their bypass filter kits on customer trucks. The flush works pretty well especially on the cummins ISX engines which are dirty by nature.
Stick with Auto RX or similar, I like Amsoil oil and stuff but do not like using a Butyl Cell based solvent cleaner in inside of engine...
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It's a decent product. It's an oddball for me though. I offer it as an added service to customers converting to extended drains from longer bouts with conventional ...but I wouldn't use it to fix a ticking lifter. The oddity is that a person with a ticking lifter probably isn't going to buy Amsoil products anyway.
That is, I think it's a good product, but find little use for it with my typical Amsoil customer.
That is, I think it's a good product, but find little use for it with my typical Amsoil customer.
I would not be pouring B12 Chemtool into the crankcase. Too much potential to screw up the oil film, and its very volatile/flammable.
I'd rather dump a can of seafoam or more preferably 1qt of Marvel Mystery OIl, if I were flushing an engine.
I'd rather dump a can of seafoam or more preferably 1qt of Marvel Mystery OIl, if I were flushing an engine.
Originally Posted By: ionbeam22
I would not be pouring B12 Chemtool into the crankcase. Too much potential to screw up the oil film, and its very volatile/flammable.
I'd rather dump a can of seafoam or more preferably 1qt of Marvel Mystery OIl, if I were flushing an engine.
I cannot see pouring in B12 Chemtool either.
I would not be pouring B12 Chemtool into the crankcase. Too much potential to screw up the oil film, and its very volatile/flammable.
I'd rather dump a can of seafoam or more preferably 1qt of Marvel Mystery OIl, if I were flushing an engine.
I cannot see pouring in B12 Chemtool either.
Originally Posted By: ionbeam22
I would not be pouring B12 Chemtool into the crankcase. Too much potential to screw up the oil film, and its very volatile/flammable.
I'd rather dump a can of seafoam or more preferably 1qt of Marvel Mystery OIl, if I were flushing an engine.
I believe that B12 chemtool, and sea foam are identical products. I know this is a poor way to compare products, but they both smell the same, and when poured in to a glass vile look the same as well.
I would not be pouring B12 Chemtool into the crankcase. Too much potential to screw up the oil film, and its very volatile/flammable.
I'd rather dump a can of seafoam or more preferably 1qt of Marvel Mystery OIl, if I were flushing an engine.
I believe that B12 chemtool, and sea foam are identical products. I know this is a poor way to compare products, but they both smell the same, and when poured in to a glass vile look the same as well.
Originally Posted By: grease_monkey
Originally Posted By: ionbeam22
I would not be pouring B12 Chemtool into the crankcase. Too much potential to screw up the oil film, and its very volatile/flammable.
I'd rather dump a can of seafoam or more preferably 1qt of Marvel Mystery OIl, if I were flushing an engine.
I believe that B12 chemtool, and sea foam are identical products. I know this is a poor way to compare products, but they both smell the same, and when poured in to a glass vile look the same as well.
No they are remarkably different. Seafoam is 40% light lubricating oil mixed with some 40% naptha, and 10% Isopropyl Alcohol.
B-12 Chemtool is blend of high KB-value solvents, and has no lubricating ability what so ever. It contains a mix of aromatic (Xylene + Toluene) and ketone (Acetone + MEK) solvents.
If you poured some into two different shot glasses, the B-12 would evaporate completely away, while the Seafoam would not.
Originally Posted By: ionbeam22
I would not be pouring B12 Chemtool into the crankcase. Too much potential to screw up the oil film, and its very volatile/flammable.
I'd rather dump a can of seafoam or more preferably 1qt of Marvel Mystery OIl, if I were flushing an engine.
I believe that B12 chemtool, and sea foam are identical products. I know this is a poor way to compare products, but they both smell the same, and when poured in to a glass vile look the same as well.
No they are remarkably different. Seafoam is 40% light lubricating oil mixed with some 40% naptha, and 10% Isopropyl Alcohol.
B-12 Chemtool is blend of high KB-value solvents, and has no lubricating ability what so ever. It contains a mix of aromatic (Xylene + Toluene) and ketone (Acetone + MEK) solvents.
If you poured some into two different shot glasses, the B-12 would evaporate completely away, while the Seafoam would not.
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MEK. I would think that it would break down sealants/adhesives. They used to have buckets of the stuff all around at the chemical plant that my father worked at. I was told (never looked it up) that it was a fat soluble solvent.
You use B12 chemtool as a flush not as an oil treatment you do not drive around with in your car. Try reading the back label it is approved for use as an Engine flush they just recomend 1/2 as much as I do which is fine if you do not have a high milage car with 100,000 miles of dino oil in it that you would like to remove. On top of that B12 has been use longer then any other solvent engine flush on the planet earth unless you caount adding a quart of kerosine as engine flush. B12 has been around since 1912 I think it is that is a long long time. On top of that I have used it on my car and I gurantee I get lower wear numbers on my UOA then you do and I do not even know what you drive how is that for big ones and confident. Are you a mechanic, lubrication engineer,tribologist, forensic engine tear down specialist or anything like that??? I am asking you Ionbeam just to be clear? Unlike some I do not just pull recommendations out of my rear I actualy base them on a combination of professional trial and error, trade school and college and my personal life. Last I checked not a lot of class actions suites against B12 Chemtool no FTC lawsuits for false advertising as they advertise it in the pint as an engine flush and fuel injector/carberator cleaner.
Did you know that many of those same solvents are in the production and extraction of oil from crude? Dino oil traditionally has solvents in it. PAO is made from reacted petrolem distilates and gas's. Crude is hit with solvents and extreme pressures and heat to get to the point that it can be used as motor oil. Ester's as found in cars motor oil and jet motor do not fail out of the sky ready made they use some harsh solvents,acids and alchols to react these things! The difference between something being harmful versus helpful is all in how you use it. Their is no hydrocarbon that is inherently evil!
Now because I was once a mechanic and used to do quality control and forensic powertrain tear down and trouble shot manufacturing machine ry problems as well I actually have a professional opinion. That opinion is actually based on real world observations. I am not sitting in my computer room thinking deep thoughts about oil! I have personnel used B12 Chemtool on not less then 100 car's not counting my own vechiles and my familys vechiles. I donot do this once a week. I have always held that things like solvent flush's should not be used more often then about 1 time per 75,000 miles if that. I generaly only do it once ever 100,000 miles. Sometimes I will soak the top of my pistons with the old Mola-soak but again I am guessing you have not heard of that before but it is in the archive I assure you and unlike your untested wild guess of an opinion about it possably disturbing the oil film it has been tried and tested hundrreds of times!
I do not talk math and would not got to a site about math because I am not an expert on math just because I passed my college math class's does not make me a Statician! So why it everyone with little or no experince feels free to make radical claims about stuff they know little about? So if you think B12 is going to disturb the oil film which is almost the funniest thing I have heard in a while jsut because of the way you state it then what do you think Amsoil FLush whose ingredients I copied fromt heir pdf and pasted her are going to do?
How much HTHS do you think an unloaded engine needs to fast idle sitting in the drive way for 15-30 minutes? Bear in mind that you add this to either your existing dirty fully formulated oil or you add it to fresh oil specifically for the flush.
Since Amsoil only in the last few years changed it's Engine Flush formula to one not so solvent heavy you would think that their would be thousands of cars sitting on the side of the road from those horrable Amsoil Engine Flush's. Where are they? It is easy to give an uneducated opinion about things you do not fully understand but why would you want to? Anything you add to your oil will change the state of the oils film strength, it flow be it laminar or not and it's AM/EP/AO properties. Just because you do not know what youa re doing does not mean it is not perfectly safe to do so it just means you should not do it. I always add that people should be cautious with solvent flush's because they are strong but not everyone is going to want to spend what Auto_rx cost. Not everyone has a paypal or a credit card and Auto-Rx is not available in stores!I pint of B12,SeaFoam
If their are two things I hate it is people that try to make other people make decisions based on fear especialy the "What if" variety of fear or the "it's Cheap Insurance" variety. My second most hated thing is people giving opinions when they do not have the personel or prefessional experince to back up their opinion! I stick to what I know and what I have personely used and tried a number of times! When I step into the unknown or am making an assumption based on passsed experinces I make sure to let the other person know that I am doing that and not representing my personel opinion as fact!
Every single Amsoil Sponsor on this site has used the flush at least once with a customer I would bet(making assumption) and probaly more then once! I doubt any of them have seen anything negative happen when it was used properly!Their are better then 10 different engine flush's on the market even the high end European oil companies like Motul have them! On the professional side every single oil c company seals a professional package for use either in the crankcase directly or for use with an engine flushing machine and they all make transmission flushing products as well for professionals.
HYDROTREATED PETROLEUM DISTILLATE, CAS# 64742
-
54
-
7, 15
-
20%
2
-
BUTOXYETHANOL, GLYCOL ETHER EB, CAS# 111
-
76
-
2, 20
-
25%
ALIPHATIC PETROLEUM DISTILLATES,
CAS# 64742
-
88
-
7, appx wt=60
-
65%
Did you know that many of those same solvents are in the production and extraction of oil from crude? Dino oil traditionally has solvents in it. PAO is made from reacted petrolem distilates and gas's. Crude is hit with solvents and extreme pressures and heat to get to the point that it can be used as motor oil. Ester's as found in cars motor oil and jet motor do not fail out of the sky ready made they use some harsh solvents,acids and alchols to react these things! The difference between something being harmful versus helpful is all in how you use it. Their is no hydrocarbon that is inherently evil!
Now because I was once a mechanic and used to do quality control and forensic powertrain tear down and trouble shot manufacturing machine ry problems as well I actually have a professional opinion. That opinion is actually based on real world observations. I am not sitting in my computer room thinking deep thoughts about oil! I have personnel used B12 Chemtool on not less then 100 car's not counting my own vechiles and my familys vechiles. I donot do this once a week. I have always held that things like solvent flush's should not be used more often then about 1 time per 75,000 miles if that. I generaly only do it once ever 100,000 miles. Sometimes I will soak the top of my pistons with the old Mola-soak but again I am guessing you have not heard of that before but it is in the archive I assure you and unlike your untested wild guess of an opinion about it possably disturbing the oil film it has been tried and tested hundrreds of times!
I do not talk math and would not got to a site about math because I am not an expert on math just because I passed my college math class's does not make me a Statician! So why it everyone with little or no experince feels free to make radical claims about stuff they know little about? So if you think B12 is going to disturb the oil film which is almost the funniest thing I have heard in a while jsut because of the way you state it then what do you think Amsoil FLush whose ingredients I copied fromt heir pdf and pasted her are going to do?
How much HTHS do you think an unloaded engine needs to fast idle sitting in the drive way for 15-30 minutes? Bear in mind that you add this to either your existing dirty fully formulated oil or you add it to fresh oil specifically for the flush.
Since Amsoil only in the last few years changed it's Engine Flush formula to one not so solvent heavy you would think that their would be thousands of cars sitting on the side of the road from those horrable Amsoil Engine Flush's. Where are they? It is easy to give an uneducated opinion about things you do not fully understand but why would you want to? Anything you add to your oil will change the state of the oils film strength, it flow be it laminar or not and it's AM/EP/AO properties. Just because you do not know what youa re doing does not mean it is not perfectly safe to do so it just means you should not do it. I always add that people should be cautious with solvent flush's because they are strong but not everyone is going to want to spend what Auto_rx cost. Not everyone has a paypal or a credit card and Auto-Rx is not available in stores!I pint of B12,SeaFoam
If their are two things I hate it is people that try to make other people make decisions based on fear especialy the "What if" variety of fear or the "it's Cheap Insurance" variety. My second most hated thing is people giving opinions when they do not have the personel or prefessional experince to back up their opinion! I stick to what I know and what I have personely used and tried a number of times! When I step into the unknown or am making an assumption based on passsed experinces I make sure to let the other person know that I am doing that and not representing my personel opinion as fact!
Every single Amsoil Sponsor on this site has used the flush at least once with a customer I would bet(making assumption) and probaly more then once! I doubt any of them have seen anything negative happen when it was used properly!Their are better then 10 different engine flush's on the market even the high end European oil companies like Motul have them! On the professional side every single oil c company seals a professional package for use either in the crankcase directly or for use with an engine flushing machine and they all make transmission flushing products as well for professionals.
HYDROTREATED PETROLEUM DISTILLATE, CAS# 64742
-
54
-
7, 15
-
20%
2
-
BUTOXYETHANOL, GLYCOL ETHER EB, CAS# 111
-
76
-
2, 20
-
25%
ALIPHATIC PETROLEUM DISTILLATES,
CAS# 64742
-
88
-
7, appx wt=60
-
65%
Lots of great information John! I don't believe any testimony I read on anyone's website, that kind of testimony means nothing. Yet when I read testimony like this I more inclined to believe it. It's coming from real world experience and not someone shilling a product. I'm a long time Bitog lurker and recently started posting, I've seen scare tactics used to sell other products and maybe because of that some of the engine flushes, UCL's and other additives got a bad rap. RUMORS! Like MMO that has been around for 80+ years, if B12 has been around since 1912, they'd be long gone if they were destroying engines.
Thanks for the info!
AD
Thanks for the info!
AD
John, let me put it this way. About two years ago, Berryman removed the instructions for using B12 Chemtool as an engine flush from the package.
Goto autozone and you'll see what I'm talking about. Now why do you think they did this?
Goto autozone and you'll see what I'm talking about. Now why do you think they did this?
On the safe side fast oil flushes are as safe as running low on oil. It doesn't destroy the engine right away but it takes plenty of life out of it.
On the dangerous side fast flushes release too much too soon and plug something up destroying the engine. Been there, done that, and got it on the t-shirt.
Berryman needed to take the oil flush instruction off because the correlation between destroyed engines and recent fast flushes is too strong. It doesn't happen often but it happens often enough to get noticed.
On the dangerous side fast flushes release too much too soon and plug something up destroying the engine. Been there, done that, and got it on the t-shirt.
Berryman needed to take the oil flush instruction off because the correlation between destroyed engines and recent fast flushes is too strong. It doesn't happen often but it happens often enough to get noticed.
Bingo, IMHO there is just no call for dumping something without any lubricating ability (and infact substantial ability to disrupt lubrication) into the engine oil, at least not for any car I cared about.
If I was going to solvent flush an engine I would use Seafoam, but even Seafoam recomends that only use it for idling 30 minutes or driving 100 miles, and then changing the oil immediately. If you look on their website they recomend a shorter than 3000mi OCI if adding seafoam to fresh oil.
IMHO Using something like a quart of MMO or Rislone Engine Treatment for a few hundred miles would provide safer cleaning than a quick solvent flush.
If I was going to solvent flush an engine I would use Seafoam, but even Seafoam recomends that only use it for idling 30 minutes or driving 100 miles, and then changing the oil immediately. If you look on their website they recomend a shorter than 3000mi OCI if adding seafoam to fresh oil.
IMHO Using something like a quart of MMO or Rislone Engine Treatment for a few hundred miles would provide safer cleaning than a quick solvent flush.
Originally Posted By: c3po
Originally Posted By: ionbeam22
I would not be pouring B12 Chemtool into the crankcase. Too much potential to screw up the oil film, and its very volatile/flammable.
I'd rather dump a can of seafoam or more preferably 1qt of Marvel Mystery OIl, if I were flushing an engine.
I cannot see pouring in B12 Chemtool either.
After seeing what John Browning wrote about B12 from real world experience I have to take back my above statement since I never used the product.
Originally Posted By: ionbeam22
I would not be pouring B12 Chemtool into the crankcase. Too much potential to screw up the oil film, and its very volatile/flammable.
I'd rather dump a can of seafoam or more preferably 1qt of Marvel Mystery OIl, if I were flushing an engine.
I cannot see pouring in B12 Chemtool either.
After seeing what John Browning wrote about B12 from real world experience I have to take back my above statement since I never used the product.
I've used seafoam (didn't seam to do much as a flush), Chemtool and the AEF. I like the AEF for normal use because it's detergent based...have freed up a few ticking lifters with it, but mostly just a general clean-up tool. You do need to run it closer to 30 minutes with a fresh filter though on cars that are a little nastier. AEF's functionality is for light to moderate build up. Kind of like for the lady who ran her car on only 2.5 quarts of oil for 1,000 miles too long once. It's not for sludgemonsters...chemtool for a quick roll of the dice and/or coupled with HDEO and ARX are for those situations.
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I still like MMO for the last 1000 miles of an OCI, or for a full OCI. It is intended to replace 1 qt of oil in the sump, and in over 80 years has a pretty good history of no problems destroying an engine. In fact on this site there are a few UOA's (for those who use them), that state great wear numbers with it in the sump. Knowing this I would use MMO vs a fast flush. Opinions certainly vary.
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