Originally Posted By: BrianC
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: zpinch
OMG, it's not 3.5 HTHS! 3.4 HTHS will make your engine explode!
It's not a question of what it'll do. It's a question of principle and how this information can be used to give you grief over a potential warranty claim.
Quote:
Better tell all the other oil makers the same thing...
The other oil makers that say "meets" instead of "recommended for" know what the HT/HS viscosity should be.
Quote:
And BTW, ACD is a A3/B3 oil, no B4.
It doesn't change the fact that HT/HS viscosity needs to be at least 3.5 cP.
Quote:
EDIT: Also, "recommended for" is a legal term, if your engine blows up, and it can be proven that the oil was responsible, Amsoil is on the hook BECAUSE they used that term.
We are going in circles here. Yes, Amsoil is on the hook, but as was pointed out earlier, every corporation has a legal team that gets paid to get them off that hook. While in the end the customer will likely be taken care of, it just adds unnecessary aggravation to the whole process.
BTW, zuluplus30's question about SSO and XL exceeding dexos1 specified SAPS limit has also gone unanswered.
According to Amsoil Technical Support.
(This is not an exact Quote)
The SS line has a SA% of 1.5%. When asked why the label implied DEXOS1 compliance, the question went to a second level and I was called back. The answer was: Due to the extended drain capablity and low volatity of the oil, the performance of the oil or potential poisoning of emissions systems was not an issue.
As to the XL and OE, both are
Seems this was the case Amsoil made for Phosphorus being over 1000ppm in the API SL standard days.
I also sent an Email regarding the ACD being recommended for ACEA A3 while showing a HTHS of 3.4 on the Data Sheet. Awaitng a response.
I expressed my frustration with labeling verbage and warranty in that Email as well.
There is no doubt Amsoil products perform, and no ones engine is likely to fail, BUT I agree their labeling has lot to be desired and creates more questions than it answers. The label needs to state claims. If they don't want to be compliant with DEXOS1 SA levels, or any other spec, leave it off the label. People just don't want the hassle in case of a warranty claim. Even if Amsoil and the MOSS act wins out and the OEM fixes it, how long is the customers car out of service unless he fronts the money to fix it.
I really don't like how Amsoil is using the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act as a cover for their IMO deceptive sales labeling practices.
It is true the manufacturer cannot void your warranty if you use Amsoil, they can however void that part of the warranty that covers lubricated parts they can show were damaged by using a non spec oil or lubricant.
It seems they are cherry picking the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act verbiage for their own ends.
Magnuson-Moss is not an open invitation for aftermarket vendors of parts and lubricants to sell such products and expect the original manufacturer to warranty damaged caused by them. Implying this IMHO this borders on consumer fraud.
I read the Magnuson-Moss act and the bottom line is if you use non spec fluid you or the manufacturer of the product you used assumes the warranty for that part of the system.
simply stated you or your lawyer gets to go 12 rounds with Amsoil (or any other company that produces non approved products) and or the vehicle manufacturer.
Just one example of what can happen, the same applies to the use of non approved lubricants and fluids.
Quote:
That being said, if you choose to modify your car, and suddenly the fancy new electronic control boxes that you added to your car make it run rough, not start when cold, or buck like a bronco, the dealer can and will charge a diagnostic fee to find out what is wrong with your car. If it turns out that your modifications are the cause of the problem, the dealer has every right not only to charge you for the diagnosis and repair, but to also void the portion of the warranty that has been compromised by the use of those aftermarket parts. Likewise, a dealer may refuse to service your car if it is adorned with aftermarket parts to the extent that its technicians cannot reasonably be expected to diagnose what is wrong with your car. As an example, all cars manufactured after 1994 are equipped with OBDII (On Board Diagnostics II) ports that dealers use to read engine diagnostic codes for everything from an engine vacuum leak to a malfunctioning emissions system. If your chosen modification has compromised the dealer service center's ability to scan for these codes (aftermarket ECUs generally do not support OBDII), then there is a strong probability that the dealer service center will
Deny warranty coverage
Refuse to service the car
Note with your factory field representative for your region/district that your car has been "modified"
Your car's manufacturer notes are your car's "permanent record." Above all else, avoid compromising these notes. This is nearly always connected with your vehicles' VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) and will
Ensure that your car will not have its warranty honored at any dealer service center in your area.
Dramatically reduce the resale and/or trade-in value of your car.
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/keeping-your-mods-warranty-intact.html
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: zpinch
OMG, it's not 3.5 HTHS! 3.4 HTHS will make your engine explode!
It's not a question of what it'll do. It's a question of principle and how this information can be used to give you grief over a potential warranty claim.
Quote:
Better tell all the other oil makers the same thing...
The other oil makers that say "meets" instead of "recommended for" know what the HT/HS viscosity should be.
Quote:
And BTW, ACD is a A3/B3 oil, no B4.
It doesn't change the fact that HT/HS viscosity needs to be at least 3.5 cP.
Quote:
EDIT: Also, "recommended for" is a legal term, if your engine blows up, and it can be proven that the oil was responsible, Amsoil is on the hook BECAUSE they used that term.
We are going in circles here. Yes, Amsoil is on the hook, but as was pointed out earlier, every corporation has a legal team that gets paid to get them off that hook. While in the end the customer will likely be taken care of, it just adds unnecessary aggravation to the whole process.
BTW, zuluplus30's question about SSO and XL exceeding dexos1 specified SAPS limit has also gone unanswered.
According to Amsoil Technical Support.
(This is not an exact Quote)
The SS line has a SA% of 1.5%. When asked why the label implied DEXOS1 compliance, the question went to a second level and I was called back. The answer was: Due to the extended drain capablity and low volatity of the oil, the performance of the oil or potential poisoning of emissions systems was not an issue.
As to the XL and OE, both are
Seems this was the case Amsoil made for Phosphorus being over 1000ppm in the API SL standard days.
I also sent an Email regarding the ACD being recommended for ACEA A3 while showing a HTHS of 3.4 on the Data Sheet. Awaitng a response.
I expressed my frustration with labeling verbage and warranty in that Email as well.
There is no doubt Amsoil products perform, and no ones engine is likely to fail, BUT I agree their labeling has lot to be desired and creates more questions than it answers. The label needs to state claims. If they don't want to be compliant with DEXOS1 SA levels, or any other spec, leave it off the label. People just don't want the hassle in case of a warranty claim. Even if Amsoil and the MOSS act wins out and the OEM fixes it, how long is the customers car out of service unless he fronts the money to fix it.
I really don't like how Amsoil is using the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act as a cover for their IMO deceptive sales labeling practices.
It is true the manufacturer cannot void your warranty if you use Amsoil, they can however void that part of the warranty that covers lubricated parts they can show were damaged by using a non spec oil or lubricant.
It seems they are cherry picking the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act verbiage for their own ends.
Magnuson-Moss is not an open invitation for aftermarket vendors of parts and lubricants to sell such products and expect the original manufacturer to warranty damaged caused by them. Implying this IMHO this borders on consumer fraud.
I read the Magnuson-Moss act and the bottom line is if you use non spec fluid you or the manufacturer of the product you used assumes the warranty for that part of the system.
simply stated you or your lawyer gets to go 12 rounds with Amsoil (or any other company that produces non approved products) and or the vehicle manufacturer.
Just one example of what can happen, the same applies to the use of non approved lubricants and fluids.
Quote:
That being said, if you choose to modify your car, and suddenly the fancy new electronic control boxes that you added to your car make it run rough, not start when cold, or buck like a bronco, the dealer can and will charge a diagnostic fee to find out what is wrong with your car. If it turns out that your modifications are the cause of the problem, the dealer has every right not only to charge you for the diagnosis and repair, but to also void the portion of the warranty that has been compromised by the use of those aftermarket parts. Likewise, a dealer may refuse to service your car if it is adorned with aftermarket parts to the extent that its technicians cannot reasonably be expected to diagnose what is wrong with your car. As an example, all cars manufactured after 1994 are equipped with OBDII (On Board Diagnostics II) ports that dealers use to read engine diagnostic codes for everything from an engine vacuum leak to a malfunctioning emissions system. If your chosen modification has compromised the dealer service center's ability to scan for these codes (aftermarket ECUs generally do not support OBDII), then there is a strong probability that the dealer service center will
Deny warranty coverage
Refuse to service the car
Note with your factory field representative for your region/district that your car has been "modified"
Your car's manufacturer notes are your car's "permanent record." Above all else, avoid compromising these notes. This is nearly always connected with your vehicles' VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) and will
Ensure that your car will not have its warranty honored at any dealer service center in your area.
Dramatically reduce the resale and/or trade-in value of your car.
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/keeping-your-mods-warranty-intact.html
