Amsoil 5W-30 1 year/18,472 miles

[Spector]

I have that exact same enigne in my 96 Contigue (Mercury Mystique) I have used both the Amsoil 10w30 (even though it calls for 5W)and now running the 0W30 past two years. (engine has 72,000 miles) I change once a year but only get 8000-10,000 miles on a sample, filter at 6 months also. My results on this same engine (no TBN, notration or oxidation though) are posted way back, several months ago under Mercury 4 cyl.
http://home.earthlink.net/~armtdm/merc.htm

I concur, Amsoil is full of crap in promoting 25,000 mile drains (well, 99 % of people go less then 15,000 miles a year so maybe there is little risk) but without analysis this is pushing it. I doubt there are many drivers/engines that can make 25,000 on Amsoil and still get good analysis. Of course, even with a terrible analysis who is to say an engine still cannot go 200,000 miles. No one has gone that route either to test it.

For me, Amsoil limits are 12,000 max and that can only be achieved on one car for me, all others are 7500.

[ August 24, 2002, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: Spector ]

 

[SteveD2]

quote:

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Originally posted by dragboat:

.....
So ,the Pennzoil I am using could be changed to a group 1 and I would never know it.
....

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Not likely. Group I base stocks won't let the oil meet API-SL & ILSAC GF-3 specs.

Ken

 

[Patman]

Spector raises a good point. Even if the analysis looks lousy on paper, how are we to know that this engine still wouldn't acheive 200k without a problem?

 

[dragboat]

Quote:
"Not likely. Group I base stocks won't let the oil meet API-SL & ILSAC GF-3 specs"

It has been posted twice on the board here the Mobil Drive Clean SL is a Group I with a robust additive package. I have not called Mobil to confirm,doubt they would tell anyway.

[ August 24, 2002, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]

 

[AHC]

TooSlick,
This analysis was the first ever done on this vehicle.

By the way, my friend did use Amsoil's engine flush before installation.

I'll make sure I post his next analysis.

Thank you all for your responses!

 

[msparks]

quote:

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Originally posted by TooSlick:
If the TBN of this oil were really 0,you would be seeing much higher bearing (lead/copper/tin) wear due to corrosion. So I would question the accuracy of that result to some degree. I do think the iron wear is very high, but I haven't seen enough data on this engine to tell. If Blackstones 28 ppm "universal average" is based on a 3000 mile oil change interval, then 131 ppm @ 18k miles (an average of 22 ppm/3000 miles) isn't abnormal. When you look at oil analysis results, you have to look at wear rates (ppm/1000 miles) and not absolute numbers. I'd drop down to a 7500 mile change interval and re-test under the same conditions.

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I'm with Tooslick on this. For one how was the analysis taken? Was the oil hot? Did he take it from the dipstick. Was a clean container/tubing used? If he used the drainplug method did he let the oil drain for at least 5 seconds prior to introducing the container to the stream.

I feel that some of the results don't correspond to the numbers.

My suggestion is to run a 7500 mile interval and resample. Also make sure he is changing the filter at 6 months or 12500 miles(if using the SDF filter)

I know this isn't an exact science, but one must use proper proceedures and recommendations to achieve the best results.

 

[msparks]

I would also like to recommend that persons switching from one oil to another would run a shorter interval the first time.

Base stock and additive compatibility are an issue. Especially when use a inferior oil for a long period of time and then upgrading to a superior basestock/additive chemistry.

An oil can only do so much when cleaning up after prior used sample.

And for the record, the quickie engine flushes are not the best thing. Yes the can get some of the big chuncks out, but will not totally clean the engine like an auto-rx or other high ester formulation.

 

[Patman]

Another problem here could be that engine flush! I suspect some of it would still be mixed in with the new oil, and we all know that solvents mixed in with an oil cannot do a good job of lubricating. So by putting in the flush, then doing a very long interval like this, it could be the reason why the oil is in the condition it's in.

I'd never use those solvent engine flushes period, but if someone I know used one, I'd recommend to them that they do a second quick oil change to make sure all the solvent is out of there. In other words, run the solvent flush, change the oil immediately, then only run that new oil for a very short interval (500 miles or less) and then change it out too. Solvent based flushes=

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

I am not a professional, but I agree with Blackstone's assesment and results.
Funny that the ppl that don't are sales reps of a certain brand.

The way I understand the definition of TBN...all this means is that the oil has little to no acid neutralization ability left. It could still be marginally basic or neutral (which I don't see how it would cause excessive corrosion). It does not mean it is acidic. However it does mean that it is at the LIMIT...and if it was left in any longer I believe we would see the even more massive corrosion that you describe.

All the adds are depleted (suportive of TBN) and the Visc has increase. Also supportive...due to high oxidation now begining to take place.

So, sorry but this oil is totally thrashed . No lab error about it. There are many things that support it.

Also want to mention, bascically by saying what you are saying...you are saying that Blackstone has no clue what they are doing. It's not like we have a TBN of 0 here will full adds and no thickening. Even if we did I think they would have caught something like that. And also testing TBN does not sound that difficult to me. Unless they have monkeys (literally) doing it, I don't see how it could be messed up that bad.

 

[Don Stevens]

I tend to agree with Jason and a couple of others that question the TBN of 0.0. (That sounds like Blutosky's grade point average).

I am an admitted Amsoil fan (and dealer) but I have to agree, those results are very poor.

See my 26,000 mile results posted separately.

Don

 

[AHC]

quote:

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Originally Posted by: msparks
I'm with Tooslick on this. For one how was the analysis taken? Was the oil hot? Did he take it from the dipstick. Was a clean container/tubing used? If he used the drainplug method did he let the oil drain for at least 5 seconds prior to introducing the container to the stream.

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The oil was sampled per Blackstone's instructions. The sample was hot, collected in a clean container provided by Blackstone, sampled after several seconds of flow from the pan. I know because I helped him take it.

 

[John_Nielsen]

I would like to ask the owner of this car a few questions.

1) what kind of air filter (if any) was used? Was it a premium air filter? Or, at least a clean one?

2) You mentioned you used Amsoil engine flush to flush the engine. How exactly did you do it? I'm a big Amsoil fan, and have used the products for over 20 years. I have used the engine flush quite a lot, and have found (at least for me) a good way of doing it. First, I put a fresh filter on the engine, then, add the flush, run the car (not driving) for 15-30 min at 2000 rpm. Immediately after shutting off the car, drain the oil while it's still hot, and change the filter. That usually does a good job. I had a friend that wanted to use Amsoil, but he didn't change his petroleum oil in 40,000 miles! When he would get a quart low (from a filled up filter), he would just get WalMart $1.00/qt oil, and dump it in. We flushed the engine like I described above. Amazingly, there were no 'chunks' that came out of the crankcase when drained! But, after the oil cooled down, I could not drain it out of my drain pan, as it turned rock hard. Only after I drained out some other oil (while it was hot), mixed it around, and only then would it come out, but like molasses! I still have the filter that was on the car for only 30 minutes, and if you turned it upside down, the gunk might settle to the bottom in a day! My friend's car immediately ran better (DUH!), and got better mileage (DUH!).

3) Do you have any other engine problems? Need a tune up? Any check engine codes? A tight seal on the air filter? Fuel injection system clean? Running some P.I. in there would help, if it's not.

4) Have you considered trying another testing facility? If you look at Brad Penn's website, even they have found discrepancies in Blackstone's testing of their own oil. That's not to say that you will instantly get some TBN numbers, but who knows? I've always had good luck with Oil Analyzers myself. I've had plenty of analysis done around 15,000 miles, and for the most part, it was recommended that no changes be made, oil was good for continued use.

I've just never seen such a bad oil test with Amsoil! I've ran it in my vehicles all the time up to 15,000 miles, and, once in a S-10 pickup that was used by my wife as a commuter (mainly highway driving), 20,000 miles, with a filter change halfway.

Thanks,
John

 

[Gary Allan]

Hi, John

You didn't happen to check the date on this, did you? btw-blue can't be read unless most of the membership highlight it.

Otherwise

 

[Audi Junkie]

I'm just not into extended ocis.

 

[webfors]

wow.. 8 year old thread! Nice. Check out BOB's post on page 1. Lots of good points.

 

[John_Nielsen]

Gary,

Thanks for the welcome!

Yes, I did see the date, but this was brought up on another forum I belong to, called oldspower.com. We were having a discussion on oils, and when I brought up Amsoil, this magically appeared. After reading this, I couldn't believe it. I had to join this, just so I could ask these questions! Like I said, I've ran Amsoil for over 20 years, and have had numerous testing done, and have NEVER had one come back like this! So, I just had to ask these questions. Who knows if the guy is even on here still, but it was worth a shot.

If you know any of the answers I'm asking about, I'm curious to find out!

Thanks,
John

 

[Kaboomba]

The 0.0 TBN is odd. But OTOH the AMSOIL flush was used before this OCI, and there's no way the analysis can be truly representative after that.

 

[addyguy]

'Older' Amsoil, while it could do long drains, wasn't as robust as 'newer' Amsoil. It's improved a lot since SM came out....

 

[Johnny]

Since we are dragging up old threads, I will answer this question.

Originally Posted By: dragboat

So ,the Pennzoil I am using could be changed to a group 1 and I would never know it.

[ August 24, 2002, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]


No! Pennzoil has not used Group I base stocks since they started using all Group II base stocks back in the early/mid 90's.

 

[John_Nielsen]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
'Older' Amsoil, while it could do long drains, wasn't as robust as 'newer' Amsoil. It's improved a lot since SM came out....


The tests I've had done, was years ago, like mid '90's. I have 5 vehicles with 2 drivers, so I don't put on that many miles on each anymore, so I just change oil every year. But, from what you say, the tests I've had done was with the 'old' Amsoil!

John