Amanda Todd - 15 year old commits suicide

[chiks]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Bullies understand one thing: force. Swift, brutal, overwhelming FORCE. Unless and until one of his would-be victims beats him to a pulp, nothing will change.

Very accurate remedy.

I think that these monsters we call bullies usually won't even cease their [censored] with moderate push back (occasional punches, ect), they need to have the [censored] beaten out of them possibly so badly that a trip to the hospital is required.

Unfortunately these creatures need to be TOTALLY
DEFEATED before the torment stops for good.

To that point, I believe Amanda bullied somebody and he got back to her and shut her up.

How about that angle?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: chiks
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: chiks
This is not just a subject of bullying. We cannot lose sight of how shortsighted the kids are. I have never flashed or been photographed nude. What does one gain by posing in a nude photo?
THIS.


It doesn't matter what she did to get bullied. The bullying is still the issue. The fact it persisted after moving and changing schools...etc. She was stalked. When you are being perpetually bullied it is very easy to lose sight of the fact that you will eventually be out of that situation.


I sure hope you do not mean what you write here.
Because if you do, you are basically condoning the act of taking/allowing nude pictures by people who are not ready to accept the consequences arising out of such acts.

Is the bully at fault. YES.
Is Amanda at fault? YES YES.


Of course I meant what I wrote, if not, I wouldn't have written it

She was a very young girl, a CHILD. She did something that was stupid and she obviously regretted. But in no way did that render her deserving of what happened after. She didn't ASK to be stalked or bullied, haunted by her (quite mild in the big scheme of things) mistake.

She was exploited, her naivety was exploited, her being a CHILD was exploited. Let's not lose sight of that. I'm not condoning her taking her shirt off. I'm saying that the act was not an invitation to make her life a living [censored].

Quote:
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

I know a pile of people that were bullied. I was bullied, my sister was bullied. She beat somebody with a chair when she snapped. The Columbine kids went full postal and just mowed everybody down. I didn't snap, but I was pretty [censored] close, almost did some things I would have seriously regretted. But in the moment, they felt very appropriate to be entertaining. Stopping the problem, what you are willing to DO to stop the problem..... I never once considered myself the issue. I had done nothing wrong to be a target. I cannot at all relate to her inclination to suicide, but I certainly understand school shootings. I know full well why they happen. I'm actually surprised we don't have more of them.


I was bullied too. Flew under the radar and stayed away from those idiots until I got the smarts to take them down intelligently. Now in professional life over so many years, nobody dares to bully me because I display the self confidence that deters bullies. In the event one does do so, I bit back like a scorpion. They do not even know what hit them. Interestingly one of them was a former boss of mine.


I was never bullied before or since High School. I have pretty high self esteem and am a very confident person. That didn't stop a particular crowd in HS from picking on me however.

I will add that I moved from a good sized town of 100K people to a small town of 5K people for the grade 10 school year, 1500Km away from where I grew up. That was when the misery started. My first year of HS, which was grade 9 in my home town, was perfectly civil. And in a much better school.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle


Bullies understand one thing: force. Swift, brutal, overwhelming FORCE. Unless and until one of his would-be victims beats him to a pulp, nothing will change.



Very accurate remedy.

I think that these monsters we call bullies usually won't even cease their [censored] with moderate push back (occasional punches, ect), they need to have the [censored] beaten out of them possibly so badly that a trip to the hospital is required.

Unfortunately these creatures need to be TOTALLY
DEFEATED before the torment stops for good.


Agreed. My best friend from HS was particularly gifted in delivering this type of "remedy" (4x Golden Gloves champ). I recall him getting this massive haymaker to the face once by this "super tough" guy. He turns his head looks at the guy and says "well, that was a mistake", you could literally smell the guy filling his shorts. I don't think I need to describe what happened after.

 

[chiks]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: chiks
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: chiks
This is not just a subject of bullying. We cannot lose sight of how shortsighted the kids are. I have never flashed or been photographed nude. What does one gain by posing in a nude photo?
THIS.


It doesn't matter what she did to get bullied. The bullying is still the issue. The fact it persisted after moving and changing schools...etc. She was stalked. When you are being perpetually bullied it is very easy to lose sight of the fact that you will eventually be out of that situation.


I sure hope you do not mean what you write here.
Because if you do, you are basically condoning the act of taking/allowing nude pictures by people who are not ready to accept the consequences arising out of such acts.

Is the bully at fault. YES.
Is Amanda at fault? YES YES.


Of course I meant what I wrote, if not, I wouldn't have written it

She was a very young girl, a CHILD. She did something that was stupid and she obviously regretted. But in no way did that render her deserving of what happened after. She didn't ASK to be stalked or bullied, haunted by her (quite mild in the big scheme of things) mistake.

She was exploited, her naivety was exploited, her being a CHILD was exploited. Let's not lose sight of that. I'm not condoning her taking her shirt off. I'm saying that the act was not an invitation to make her life a living [censored].


I am not going to take sides on this one.
She might have deserved it. She might not have.
I frankly do not have all the facts in front of me to make an intelligent decision.

But I will say this. If a woman [censored] me off real bad (as in makes my life [censored]), and I have nude pictures of her, I will post them online and harass her just like this. Revenge is sweet. Even sweeter when she does not know what hit her.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: chiks
Quote:
Todd explained how she and friends were playing on a camcorder and posting pictures online when she was in Grade 7. She was urged to “flash. So I did.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1270262--b-c-victim-of-cyber-bullying-commits-suicide


Another aspect that comes into the picture: Peer Pressure.
Teach your kids to not be a victim of peer pressure. Just because your "friends" urge you to "flash" on camera, doesn't mean you do it.

Bullying of this extent would not have come if this picture did not even happen. Do you get that?

you cannot leave the doors of your house wide open and expect that nobody is going to stroll through your house and enjoy your goodies in the pantry. IF you cry that somebody ate your goodies after that....


The bullies would have just focused on something else, which it sounds like they did later on anyway. She became a target. Maybe the original reason for the target was the topless shot, but ultimately she was the type of person that bullies gravitate toward. She was obviously insecure, wanted people to like her and lacked self confidence. She was a pushover and readily exploited. They took advantage of that.

The Columbine boys were never victims of people posting nude pics of them on the Internet. No. They were victims of more traditional bullying practices levied by your typical jock-type, like so many other young guys. But for whatever reason, in their case it broke them. And we all know what happened there.

There is no "one fits all" answer to this scenario. Because it plays out differently every time. The common factors are a victim and a bully. What makes one the target varies and the degree of bullying obviously varies as well. And then ultimately what happens between them

That can range from it just being coped with/evaded until school is over to the victim lashing out violently.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: chiks

I am not going to take sides on this one.
She might have deserved it. She might not have.
I frankly do not have all the facts in front of me to make an intelligent decision.

But I will say this. If a woman [censored] me off real bad (as in makes my life [censored]), and I have nude pictures of her, I will post them online and harass her just like this. Revenge is sweet. Even sweeter when she does not know what hit her.


You'd take topless pictures of a 13 year old girl and post them on the Internet? Context is key here!

There's no side to take. You are playing the role of some guy taking a moral high road that in this situation doesn't exist.

We aren't talking about some 20 year old chick you banged and took photos of the deed, then she [censored] you off so you posted the pics on porntube. This is a CHILD.

I must assume you don't have kids?

 

[chiks]

I said WOMAN.

 

[chiks]

I do have kids, and I teach them all I posted here.
No Peer Pressure.
No stupids acts like this.
In fact I made her read this so that she learns how it ends.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: chiks
I said WOMAN.


Right. That's why I made my context remark. The girl in question was not a woman. She was a 13 year old child. Topless photos of a 13 year old child are not the same as those of a woman.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: chiks
I do have kids, and I teach them all I posted here.
No Peer Pressure.
No stupids acts like this.
In fact I made her read this so that she learns how it ends.


Good, then as a father, you of all people should be understanding regarding the plight of youth. She came from what I can only assume was a broken home (she moved from living with her dad to living with her mom, that was mentioned at one point in the article) which means she may not have gotten the memo regarding peer pressure. She may not have gotten the hands on attention from her parents that she deserved.

While we can call her act stupid, it is obvious she felt this was the only solution to her problem and that in itself is a tragedy. There was nobody there to tell her that it would eventually get better.

I had a good friend who came from far from ideal familial circumstances. He latched onto the stability of my family for guidance. My parents embraced him as one of their own and his life was better for it. Kids all need guidance, love and understanding. They won't always make the right decisions, no matter how hard we try to guide them in the right direction. And we need to be there to catch them when they fall. The problem is that for kids like Amanda, there was nobody there to catch her from the sounds of things.

 

[chiks]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: chiks
I said WOMAN.


Right. That's why I made my context remark. The girl in question was not a woman. She was a 13 year old child. Topless photos of a 13 year old child are not the same as those of a woman.


But another kid boy will not think like that. Will he?

These kids think they are all grown up and act like grown ups.

It is adults who actually make this distinction. These kids do not. They live in a world where they believe they are 2 steps ahead of their parents.

 

[chiks]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: chiks
I do have kids, and I teach them all I posted here.
No Peer Pressure.
No stupids acts like this.
In fact I made her read this so that she learns how it ends.


Good, then as a father, you of all people should be understanding regarding the plight of youth. She came from what I can only assume was a broken home (she moved from living with her dad to living with her mom, that was mentioned at one point in the article) which means she may not have gotten the memo regarding peer pressure. She may not have gotten the hands on attention from her parents that she deserved.

While we can call her act stupid, it is obvious she felt this was the only solution to her problem and that in itself is a tragedy. There was nobody there to tell her that it would eventually get better.

I had a good friend who came from far from ideal familial circumstances. He latched onto the stability of my family for guidance. My parents embraced him as one of their own and his life was better for it. Kids all need guidance, love and understanding. They won't always make the right decisions, no matter how hard we try to guide them in the right direction. And we need to be there to catch them when they fall. The problem is that for kids like Amanda, there was nobody there to catch her from the sounds of things.


One more reason why I did not divorce my wife even when the opportunity was ripe and literally had no use of her in my life. But my kids needed us as parents, not a mom and a dad going out with a boyfriend and a girlfriend. I negotiated the best deal in the best interests of my kids.

 

[chiks]

While not all kids are such beautiful, this is what I teach to my kids

"What would you do if someone took a picture of you without your knowledge, then uploaded said picture to the Internet just to make fun of you for how you look?

Over the weekend, a Reddit user appropriately named “european_douchebag” posted a photo of a female Ohio State University student named Balpreet Kaur to the popular social sharing site under the “funny” thread.

Kaur practices the Sikh faith, and in accordance with her religious beliefs, she does not shave or trim her facial hair. As a result, she has a full grown beard and noticeably thick sideburns.

When she found out her picture was being ridiculed on Reddit, instead of lashing out at the Redditors with an angry, profanity-laced rant, Ms. Kaur killed them with kindness, and offered an extremely graceful and intelligent response:

Hey, guys. This is Balpreet Kaur, the girl from the picture. I actually didn’t know about this until one of my friends told on facebook. If the OP wanted a picture, they could have just asked and I could have smiled

However, I’m not embarrased or even humiliated by the attention [negative and positve] that this picture is getting because, it’s who I am. Yes, I’m a baptized Sikh woman with facial hair. Yes, I realize that my gender is often confused and I look different than most women.


Read more: http://gossiponthis.com/2012/09/27/balpreet-kaur-proud-sikh-woman-with-full-beard-gracefully-responds-internet-critics/#ixzz29EcHCDE3"

 

[wrcsixeight]

I remember being a kid and knowing that no adult really understood what is really going on in the interactions between us children. That harder the adults tried to act like they did understand, and know, my first thought how much different it must have been growing up 30 years ago.
My attempts to relate this realization to my parents and teachers were not conveyed properly, or they were just disregarded outright and or some combination of both.
The result was playing their game, telling them what they wanted to hear. Whatever made the least amount of friction.

Today's kids grow up with cell phones being the norm. Search engines. Social Media. We adults can imagine how it is growing up with all this, think we know the subtle interactions between kids in this day and age, but we are wrong. We are clueless. We have no Idea. Our understanding might skim the surface, but there are depths we will never understand, don't want to understand, and are incapable of understanding.

We only see what they let us see. When they know there is no possibility of an adult presence, the whole group interaction goes 'Lord of the Flies' but to some technological extent that is completely invisible to us, and miles outside our grasp.


Thinking that we understand the true nature of the interaction of today's youth is the ultimate in arrogance, and is of benefit to absolutely no one in the long run.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: chiks
While not all kids are such beautiful, this is what I teach to my kids

"What would you do if someone took a picture of you without your knowledge, then uploaded said picture to the Internet just to make fun of you for how you look?

Over the weekend, a Reddit user appropriately named “european_douchebag” posted a photo of a female Ohio State University student named Balpreet Kaur to the popular social sharing site under the “funny” thread.

Kaur practices the Sikh faith, and in accordance with her religious beliefs, she does not shave or trim her facial hair. As a result, she has a full grown beard and noticeably thick sideburns.

When she found out her picture was being ridiculed on Reddit, instead of lashing out at the Redditors with an angry, profanity-laced rant, Ms. Kaur killed them with kindness, and offered an extremely graceful and intelligent response:

Hey, guys. This is Balpreet Kaur, the girl from the picture. I actually didn’t know about this until one of my friends told on facebook. If the OP wanted a picture, they could have just asked and I could have smiled

However, I’m not embarrased or even humiliated by the attention [negative and positve] that this picture is getting because, it’s who I am. Yes, I’m a baptized Sikh woman with facial hair. Yes, I realize that my gender is often confused and I look different than most women.


Read more: http://gossiponthis.com/2012/09/27/balpreet-kaur-proud-sikh-woman-with-full-beard-gracefully-responds-internet-critics/#ixzz29EcHCDE3"


Props to her, very well handled!

However, she's not 13.

I think age is a key part of what happened with Amanda.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: chiks
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: chiks
I said WOMAN.


Right. That's why I made my context remark. The girl in question was not a woman. She was a 13 year old child. Topless photos of a 13 year old child are not the same as those of a woman.


But another kid boy will not think like that. Will he?

These kids think they are all grown up and act like grown ups.

It is adults who actually make this distinction. These kids do not. They live in a world where they believe they are 2 steps ahead of their parents.


I dunno. When I was that age I knew having pics of girls my own age on my computer wouldn't be "right"

It all boils down to what we are taught right? But that ties into the next post I made, that you've responded to, about the roles of parents and the significance of being involved in their children's lives.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: chiks
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: chiks
I do have kids, and I teach them all I posted here.
No Peer Pressure.
No stupids acts like this.
In fact I made her read this so that she learns how it ends.


Good, then as a father, you of all people should be understanding regarding the plight of youth. She came from what I can only assume was a broken home (she moved from living with her dad to living with her mom, that was mentioned at one point in the article) which means she may not have gotten the memo regarding peer pressure. She may not have gotten the hands on attention from her parents that she deserved.

While we can call her act stupid, it is obvious she felt this was the only solution to her problem and that in itself is a tragedy. There was nobody there to tell her that it would eventually get better.

I had a good friend who came from far from ideal familial circumstances. He latched onto the stability of my family for guidance. My parents embraced him as one of their own and his life was better for it. Kids all need guidance, love and understanding. They won't always make the right decisions, no matter how hard we try to guide them in the right direction. And we need to be there to catch them when they fall. The problem is that for kids like Amanda, there was nobody there to catch her from the sounds of things.


One more reason why I did not divorce my wife even when the opportunity was ripe and literally had no use of her in my life. But my kids needed us as parents, not a mom and a dad going out with a boyfriend and a girlfriend. I negotiated the best deal in the best interests of my kids.


Good for you

That's refreshing to read in a world of parents worrying more about themselves and their personal lives than the lives of their children.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
I remember being a kid and knowing that no adult really understood what is really going on in the interactions between us children. That harder the adults tried to act like they did understand, and know, my first thought how much different it must have been growing up 30 years ago.
My attempts to relate this realization to my parents and teachers were not conveyed properly, or they were just disregarded outright and or some combination of both.
The result was playing their game, telling them what they wanted to hear. Whatever made the least amount of friction.

Today's kids grow up with cell phones being the norm. Search engines. Social Media. We adults can imagine how it is growing up with all this, think we know the subtle interactions between kids in this day and age, but we are wrong. We are clueless. We have no Idea. Our understanding might skim the surface, but there are depths we will never understand, don't want to understand, and are incapable of understanding.

We only see what they let us see. When they know there is no possibility of an adult presence, the whole group interaction goes 'Lord of the Flies' but to some technological extent that is completely invisible to us, and miles outside our grasp.


Thinking that we understand the true nature of the interaction of today's youth is the ultimate in arrogance, and is of benefit to absolutely no one in the long run.



How old are you?

I grew up with a computer since I was ~8 years old. I had the Internet in its earliest form. I remember when Google was ad-free and much more effective than it is now. And of course all of Google's predecessors.....

I also remember chat rooms, IRC, ICQ....etc. There were plenty of means of engaging with anonymous people, transferring files, pictures...etc.

There was no facebook. But I really don't think things have changed that significantly since I was a kid other than the greater presence of social media in our schools and it being more accessible.

That being said, I always had an excellent relationship with my parents and had no fear in discussing my issues with them. My parents are both brilliant people, and had no issue wrapping their heads around what ailed me or my siblings. Certainly, there were some things that we hid from them, but they always seemed to know anyway

 

[chiks]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: chiks
While not all kids are such beautiful, this is what I teach to my kids

Read more: http://gossiponthis.com/2012/09/27/balpreet-kaur-proud-sikh-woman-with-full-beard-gracefully-responds-internet-critics/#ixzz29EcHCDE3"


Props to her, very well handled!

However, she's not 13.

I think age is a key part of what happened with Amanda.


I sincerely doubt she got the hair @ 20.
She must have had it since middle school, the prime time when kids get bullied. Growing up through those years must have made her strong and resilient.

 

[chiks]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


That being said, I always had an excellent relationship with my parents and had no fear in discussing my issues with them. My parents are both brilliant people, and had no issue wrapping their heads around what ailed me or my siblings. Certainly, there were some things that we hid from them, but they always seemed to know anyway

You sound like my children!
That is exactly how I work with them. I do not try to break them and command them to follow rules or else....
My wife and I try to be friends to them. I'd rather hear their good, bad and ugly incidents from them rather than from a 3rd party. My daughter is sitting right next to me as I write this.