Aluminum 2015 F-250??

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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
I don't care for the 15 F150 I saw at the car show, looked like a Toyota and it was loaded with gadgets. Its an accountants truck not a contractors.

As long as insurance rates don't go up I don't care what the truck is made out of.


Note that rates will indeed go up a bit on these as repairs are markedly more expensive. Also most indie shops cannot yet work on aluminum. It is supposed to cost 200-300k just to get the correct tools, and they cannot be used at all on regular steel due to corrosion issues!


Added features yield higher costs. Plus aluminum costs more than steel. Is it durability you are worried about? Most modern vehicles have super thin sheet metal if its not made with plastic. I am not a body mechanic, but I imagine it is hard to bend back a damaged body panel while making all the lines straight again. That being said, I am sure it is easier to just replace it.

* This is a good article.
http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/even-owners-didnt-know-they-were-driving-2015-ford-f-15-1583143476
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Cujet
100% aluminum. No paint problems, no corrosion problems, 10 years old and expected to be airworthy for another 30 years. That's a lifespan of 40 years. And, yet there are people who don't like aluminum....

GV_beach_flyover_resize.jpg


12+ years old. No problems

pilatus_resize.jpg


Oh, and here is a local vehicle, made of aluminum, that is quite old, and still safe enough to fly!

quiet_wing_winglets_10052011_web.jpg


Aluminum is the right material for modern vehicles. Period, end of story. It's tough, stiff, corrosion resistant, not difficult to repair, lasts a very long time and enables massive weight savings. In fact, aluminum structures can often be lighter than composites for certain applications.


A car in Indiana will see much more corrosion (salt) than any commercial jet. Not really a fair comparison IMO.
 
The important thing to note is steel has a 'memory', and wants to go back to the original shape.

Aluminum does not.

Body shops are having to spend hundreds of thousands to get special tools. You cannot use the same tools on an aluminum vehicle due to corrosion issues. Fasteners, etc., just imagine the confusion.

Hack jobs will be everywhere for sure...
 
Quote:
Aluminum is the right material for modern vehicles. Period,

Your comparing a Ford pick up to a modern tens of million dollar jet? Not realistic.
What grade of aluminum does the plane use? it is riveted and its shell has only 3 shapes cylindrical and flat or slightly curved.
How many times are aircraft inspected and corroded panels are found? A lot more than you would like us to believe. They corrode and corrode plenty!

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies...083-30_Ch06.pdf

The rivets are exposed and other than take off and landing in an area that use chemicals are not subjected to any sort of road salt.
They do use anti corrosion compounds in aircraft and the paint is Imron or other specialty paint. I buy Corban 22 for rustproofing, it is approved for aircraft wheel housings.
Imron was tried decades ago for car refinishing and found not only too costly but hazardous to health. look up Isocyanate.

The use of aluminum is a direct result of mandated fuel economy nothing more or less. Aluminum parts and removable panels is one thing but not the main structure of the car.
For a mass produced vehicle this is probably the worst material.
 
Aircraft are going to be held to a much higher standard than an automobile. Also, they will not have to deal with such a corrosive environment.

I have aluminum calipers and caliper brackets on my Focus - they are, literally, flaking away as we speak. I believe they are untreated - at least the FISO will be painted.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
The important thing to note is steel has a 'memory', and wants to go back to the original shape.

Aluminum does not.

Body shops are having to spend hundreds of thousands to get special tools. You cannot use the same tools on an aluminum vehicle due to corrosion issues. Fasteners, etc., just imagine the confusion.

Hack jobs will be everywhere for sure...


Hack jobs wont be everywhere. The dealer will have the appropriate tools for the products they sell. As of now, it will only be Ford with all aluminum panels so its not like a body shop will get swamped with all aluminum cars at one time. As mentioned, other automobile manufacturers have already been using aluminum for quite some so they aren't in for a surprise. Metal body panels are so thin these days anyway, I doubt their elastic qualities will do them any good.
 
Ford has been pushing the body repair training on these pretty hard and heavy. One of our techs went to the training on the new truck and they showed all the techs how to do the body repair, they use trucks from the NHTSA crash test to teach body repair with.
 
I just confirmed that the girlfriends 2002 Volvo's hood and trunk are both aluminum. No flaking, signs of corrosion etc.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
The important thing to note is steel has a 'memory', and wants to go back to the original shape.

Aluminum does not.

Body shops are having to spend hundreds of thousands to get special tools. You cannot use the same tools on an aluminum vehicle due to corrosion issues. Fasteners, etc., just imagine the confusion.

Hack jobs will be everywhere for sure...


Hack jobs wont be everywhere. The dealer will have the appropriate tools for the products they sell. As of now, it will only be Ford with all aluminum panels so its not like a body shop will get swamped with all aluminum cars at one time. As mentioned, other automobile manufacturers have already been using aluminum for quite some so they aren't in for a surprise. Metal body panels are so thin these days anyway, I doubt their elastic qualities will do them any good.


You may be sure I am not wrong, as independent shops outnumber Stealerships by a HUGE margin, and many vehicles never go back. Only 20% of Ford Dealers fix aluminum now! These trucks will be wrecked. They will need repairs. There are already shops that fix aluminum panels out there, they generally work on Ferraris, Porsche, and Jaguars and the like. But they are mega expensive.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/foils-gold-body-shops-weighing-aluminum-repair-face-a-steep-buy-in/
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
The important thing to note is steel has a 'memory', and wants to go back to the original shape.

Aluminum does not.

Body shops are having to spend hundreds of thousands to get special tools. You cannot use the same tools on an aluminum vehicle due to corrosion issues. Fasteners, etc., just imagine the confusion.

Hack jobs will be everywhere for sure...


Hack jobs wont be everywhere. The dealer will have the appropriate tools for the products they sell. As of now, it will only be Ford with all aluminum panels so its not like a body shop will get swamped with all aluminum cars at one time. As mentioned, other automobile manufacturers have already been using aluminum for quite some so they aren't in for a surprise. Metal body panels are so thin these days anyway, I doubt their elastic qualities will do them any good.


You may be sure I am not wrong, as independent shops outnumber Stealerships by a HUGE margin, and many vehicles never go back. Only 20% of Ford Dealers fix aluminum now! These trucks will be wrecked. They will need repairs. There are already shops that fix aluminum panels out there, they generally work on Ferraris, Porsche, and Jaguars and the like. But they are mega expensive.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/foils-gold-body-shops-weighing-aluminum-repair-face-a-steep-buy-in/



Body shops will simply replace demaged panels without trying to fix it. It won't be cheap.
 
I guess I still don't see the issue. %20 of 3100 is 620. That being said, 620 dealers throughout the entire nation having the technicians and tools needed for repairing a truck which isn't even in production yet is definitely a step in the right direction. If anything, I can see this being a way for Ford to get people to come back to the dealership. Not saying I am a fan of this, but I can just see it: Joe over at Joe’s heat and beat emporium can't work on aluminum so he sends the customer to the closest Ford dealer that can do the repairs.

These are all guesses though. Time will tell once they start production.
 
Nevermind what I said earlier, looks like Ford chickened out on the frames.

Quote:
Mr. Reyes's team looked at using an aluminum frame, but it backed off, a person familiar with the effort to cut weight said. Since truck frames need to be extra rigid to handle payloads, and so much more aluminum would be required for that big, crucial part than steel, the cost proved too high and the weight reduction too small, this person said.


LINK
 
Ford started mainstream production of all aluminum cars in 2003 with the introduction of the 2004 Jaguar Xj8.

If they are employing the bonded aluminum construction that Jaguar uses, it is a vastly superior way to make a vehicle compared to welded steel.

I don't recall what the insurance rates were in 2004 when we got the car, but right now, insurance for the glue and aluminum Jaguar is about the same as a welded steel Pontiac.

It's probably true that two bit body shops won't be able to properly deconstruct and repair a bonded vehicle, but so what?

This is much ado about nothing.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
2 Ford dealers with 25 miles here and neither has a body shop.
Audi fiddle [censored] around with aluminum for years yet even after many years they are rethinking the idea.
IMHO we are seeing the birth of the new Edsel but on a grand scale.
lol.gif


http://blog.caranddriver.com/next-gen-audi-a8-likely-to-ditch-all-aluminum-platform-and-fwd-layout/


Yep, high strength steel and proper engineering can nearly equal the weight savings, and at far less cost.

Better not be an Edsel, as we are looking hard at this one for my wife's home health vehicle! But of course there's that short warranty issue also on the Ford, that could be a deal breaker...
 
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