A reply from Pennzoil about new PUP

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Why do you even bother asking them questions when you know you won't get an answer?


Just wanted to see what they would say. Better than them saying nothing. I'm going to compost a few more questions from various threads and reply to Chris and see what he can find out for us. Maybe more corporate answers but its still a response and a nice read
laugh.gif
 
Mark used to be on here at one time when PP first hit the market. His answers are what I would expect. They are invested in GTL. It is what it is. The entire formulation of PP/PU is outstanding IMO. Those IIIG/IVA results clearly show it's a very good oil.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
Mark used to be on here at one time when PP first hit the market. His answers are what I would expect. They are invested in GTL. It is what it is. The entire formulation of PP/PU is outstanding IMO. Those IIIG/IVA results clearly show it's a very good oil.


What Sequence IVA results? All they claim is that they pass the IVA, thats all. They use the word "unsurpassed" on all their oils, and they merely mean it passes IVA, one basic test in SN. Its misleading at best. .... As a side note, Sequence IVA results are very hard to uncover, as the ONLY ones I've ever seen have been in Castrol GTX Synblend 5w-20 and 5w-30 where the claim it gets an 18 micron score or better, and then the MAG1-SuperTech (walmart) 5w-30 oil where they claim they got a 28 micron score (out of a possible 90 max to pass). .... Pennzoil, on the other hand, does not tell us Seq IVA scores at all.
 
... and, I find it strange that the new PUP and PPP with GTL stocks have changed their NOACK numbers, yet the claims on Sequence IIG being some percent better than other brands have not changed one bit.
 
Originally Posted By: FetchFar
... and, I find it strange that the new PUP and PPP with GTL stocks have changed their NOACK numbers, yet the claims on Sequence IIG being some percent better than other brands have not changed one bit.


"Unsurpassed Wear Protection: No other leading motor oil provides better protection form friction
Based on Sequence IVA wear test using SAE 5W-30"

So SOPUS claims that no other leading motor oil surpasses.

Castrol makes the same claim.
"Unsurpassed protection against engine wear and harmful sludge"

What is your point? Because I am sure Ashland, XOM, and Chevron make similar claims.

The difference is Castrol has been caught in the recent past of exaggerating their claims.
 
Originally Posted By: FetchFar
Its misleading at best. .... As a side note, Sequence IVA results are very hard to uncover, as the ONLY ones I've ever seen have been in Castrol GTX Synblend 5w-20 and 5w-30 where the claim it gets an 18 micron score or better,


Is this micron score the minimum performance claim on every single batch of GTX synblend? Or is this GTX synblend's best micron score? If so can Castrol provide this statement from a representative in their technical department?
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
...
What is your point? Because I am sure Ashland, XOM, and Chevron make similar claims.

The difference is Castrol has been caught in the recent past of exaggerating their claims.


My point is that I have only seen SPECIFIC micron scores on the IVA test for Castrol GTX Synblend (both 5w-20 & 5w-30 same claim) of 18 microns, and 28 microns on MAG1's SuperTech walmart 5w-30. .... For all SN oils made to say "unsurpassed" merely means everybody got <90 microns score on the IVA, and getting less than 90 microns means everybody is an SN oil, and that means everybody is "not better" or "unsurpassed" compared to others, a very loose, yet legal thing to say for hype.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251

Castrol makes the same claim.
"Unsurpassed protection against engine wear and harmful sludge"


Castrol's GTX Synblend 5w-20 and 5w-30 both claim 5x Better Wear based on the SN Sequence IVA limits, a more specific claim than just saying "unsurpassed", which means "we passed IVA at <90 microns".
 
Yet Castrol can not make the claim it's product provides the best wear protection. Because that is a micron score on a ASTM test. Just because a PCMO had a awesome score on one day of testing this does not translate into the same performance in every day use.

Castrol's synblend meets or exceeds requirements. Nothing more. Thus the reason why Castrol may publish it's products best score at one time and it can not make the claim it has the product that provides the best wear protection.

The same theory applies for me. I have struck out Adam Lind twice in my life. But I am not a MLB pitcher nor I am going to be one just because on my best day I was able to get the better end of a future professional baseball player. That was just my performance on my best pitching day.
 
dave1251, referring to your last post above, remember that Castrol would be committing fraud to claim an 18 micron score when it was really a rare result and their standard deviation is huge. ... Of course fraud has occurred before, yet accusing them of this without evidence is a little mean spirited.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251

Castrol's synblend meets or exceeds requirements. Nothing more. ....


Castrol's SynBlend has something more than just the vague "meets or exceeds", it exceeds by 5 times based on the 90 micron limits in IVA, something to legally put in marketing. ... Something more.
 
Originally Posted By: FetchFar
Originally Posted By: dave1251

Castrol makes the same claim.
"Unsurpassed protection against engine wear and harmful sludge"


Castrol's GTX Synblend 5w-20 and 5w-30 both claim 5x Better Wear based on the SN Sequence IVA limits, a more specific claim than just saying "unsurpassed", which means "we passed IVA at div>


Are you attempting to stir up something like this?

http://www.quakerstate.com/#/wear-challenge

Also Castrol's claims have been discussed before.
Castrol does not make wear claims on the Castrol website any longer other than the generic wear statements.

http://www.asrcreviews.org/2014/01/nad-r...l-bp-to-appeal/

Given past performance from BP/Castrol and questionable advertising that somehow really caught XOM's attention and subsequent findings forgive me when I do not trust Castrol advertising.

As for Castrol's products I see nothing wrong with the performance of the product. I just do not trust some of the more exaggerated claims from Castrol's advertising department. Just due to rather shady recent history from Castrol.
 
dave1251, I remember the old wear challenge thing. With newer formulations, that is history, obsolete info.

What I'm specifically referring to is on the bottles and jugs of Castrol GTX SynBlend, printed on there. It very specifically says 5x better wear performance compared to the standard SN Sequence IVA limits (which are 90 microns).

Not trusting Castrol to tell the truth here is your choice. Me, I need some evidence to show they are outright lying before accusing them of that. Here in the USA its innocent until proven guilty. Mexico its guilty until proven innocent, so at least one country agrees with your approach.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251

Also Castrol's claims have been discussed before.
Castrol does not make wear claims on the Castrol website any longer other than the generic wear statements.

http://www.asrcreviews.org/2014/01/nad-r...l-bp-to-appeal/

Given past performance from BP/Castrol and questionable advertising that somehow really caught XOM's attention and subsequent findings forgive me when I do not trust Castrol advertising.

As for Castrol's products I see nothing wrong with the performance of the product. I just do not trust some of the more exaggerated claims from Castrol's advertising department. Just due to rather shady recent history from Castrol.


Thanks for the great link to the NAD article. It basically echoes my opinion about the shady claim some marketer at Castrol came up with (and what VP signed off on that?) regarding the "torture test". Being a sample size of one Chrysler hemi engine, there are enough likely variations between two hemi engines to cause one to fail before the other. So NAD is right about that one!

Still, maybe Castrol learned its lesson, and is wise for sticking with good old SN Sequence IVA results for the synBlend claims of 5x better wear.
 
Are you aware that the wear campaign by Castrol was started in 2009? GTX blend was 4X better then EDGE was 8X better.

It was then discontinued. Castrol has moved on to

"Castrol GTX SynBlend is a premium synthetic blend motor oil specially engineered with proprietary Castrol GTX technology and premium synthetic molecules to provide superior wear and deposit protection* for modern engines. Under the extreme heat and stress of new engine technology, GTX SynBlend cools critical engine parts providing a superior level of protection against wear and oil burn-off. It is specially formulated with patented GTX dual-action dispersants to help prevent the formation of harmful engine deposits.

FEATURES

Patented Technological Innovation: Castrol GTX SynBlend is a premium synthetic blend motor oil formulated to provide superior wear and deposit protection*

ADVANTAGES

Unsurpassed protection against engine wear
Superior protection against the formation of harmful deposits
A higher level of thermal stability vs. conventional oils
Maximum viscosity and oil burn-off protection

BENEFITS

Consumers who choose Castrol GTX SynBlend will receive superior deposit and wear protection to help prevent premature loss of engine life.

*As tested in the Sequence VG sludge test.
Results based on industry standard Sequence IVA wear test."
 
Awhile back I emailed someone, who wishes to remain anonymous but is a very close source and has knowledge, pertaining the results of tests like these. Here are some questions I asked.

Q) On the topic of meeting and exceeding grades..... What is the definition of 'exceeding' on the Sequence IVA if the numbers didn't really matter? Because like you said, the test is just a pass/fail grade, so wouldn't all oils be considered 'meeting'?

A) Correction: all PASSING oils would be considered meeting or exceeding. The definition of meeting or exceeding is dependent on whether the oil is able to prevent the average cam wear from exceeding 90 um of wear after 100 hours of running in the test engine. The oil can exceed the Sequence IVA performance criteria if it can keep the wear below 90 um.

Q) Quaker State issued a challenge to any oil companiess to come compare oils against them in the Sequence IVA and no company stepped up. Do you believe that if the challenged took place, the results in this benchmark could have declared which oil definitely declared who was best in wear protection? If you believe you have the best product, why would you be afraid of this challenge? (unless you really believed that you didn't have a chance)

By defining a “best” oil, you are essentially defining ONE oil. No one oil company will be willing to let just one oil company to dominate the market, even if there is a possibility that they are the one. The performance of motor oils on the Sequence IVA are indeed different, but they are comparable. Suppose the results of the challenge are Oil A: 15um, Oil B: 20um, Oil C: 25um. According to the results, all of these oils passed the Sequence IVA with flying colors, but Oil A apparently gives the “best wear protection.” But does a 10 um difference really matter? You can’t visibly see or physically feel that difference. But the winning company would more than likely advertise this victory as “Oil A gives the beats all other motor oils in wear protection,” because now it is perfectly legal to make that claim; you will never see the actual wear numbers and how insignificant the differences are.

Also regarding your point that “numbers don’t lie,” the fact is that the numbers are merely measurements, and all measurements have a possibility for error. That’s why you see on some measurements something like 20cm +/- 5cm. This is dependent on the resolution of the measurement device. Since our measurement device is really an engine, which is inherently chaotic and difficult to control, the measurements that the test yields will not have as tight a resolution as measurements by a ruler. So when an oil yields a wear of 20um on one test run, it can very easily yield 35um on the next test run. Although these numbers are 15um apart, it is still considered repeatable results because of the large resolution of the measurement.


There are more questions but that is all of the email that I am going to share.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Are you aware that the wear campaign by Castrol was started in 2009? GTX blend was 4X better then EDGE was 8X better.
It was then discontinued. Castrol has moved on to ......


Obsolete information. Not relevant now. Old history. New formulas now. Five years ago is a long time in the oil business, we are now on SN oil. ... Like I said above, the new 5x wear SynBlend claims are on the bottles/jugs only. Not on websites as far as I know.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top